[Closed] Doorstep God Botherers.

You don't get extra points for a conversion.

Is that why there aren't many JW rugby players?

Elfin,

What about the Shunning thing though where people are pushed away from their friends and family. You have to admit that is dangerous and pretty destructive ?

When I was younger I was baptised by proxy for over 200 people.

I'll probably get flamed for that.

I'm always slightly conflicted at turning away the Jehovah Witnesses.
Sometimes the ladies are quite hot.

disturbing me in my own home to talk about your belief is not nice in my book its annoying

+1, what they're doing is rude so there's no expectation of politeness from the doorstepee(?) IMO.

i dont mind a chat with them to be honest, i am fairly keen to listen to anyone that has an opinion on what it's all about. i tend to tell em nice and early that i wont be joining the clan though.
i usually get on to the wicked people thing fairly quickly as i feel they need to sort their sh@t out on this or they are just never going to get anywhere. 🙂
they come to your door through a perceived need to help you so i dont like to be rude to them.

They're a hell of a lot politer than the TV licence people.

An it's not like their percieved benifit form the activity is harming you is it?

There are a lot worse about than the Jehovahs. I went to college 6-7th form in a girls school, there were a lot of Exclusive Brethren at the school, a more fundamentalist offshoot of the Plymouth Brethren I think.

We made friends with one of the girls, which was not easy as she wasn't meant to talk to us. Tried to help her when she eventually left school, left the Brethren, got her a job and found her a flat. There were some nasty confrontations involving the cops when her brothers came around to try and take her back. Her family never spoke to her again, messed up her life for good.

As I mentioned on [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/why-are-you-atheists-so-angry ]the BIG religion thread[/url], we've got a Jehovah's Witness who has chapped on our door at least a dozen times now.

MrsGrahamS made the mistake of inviting him in and engaging in proper conversation the first time he called, because (as a doctor) she was interested in JW's beliefs about blood transfusions, transplants, injections etc and how best to talk to them about that in her clinics.

Now we get visits where he alternately gives us books or asks us if we read the last lot yet. If we tell him we're not interested we get more books to explain why we should be.

He does seem like a perfectly genuine person who is obviously just earnestly committed to his faith. It's not something I subscribe to, but I'm not going to be rude to the guy - he's just doing what he thinks is right.

(I did have a flick through the book on [i]"why evolution is wrong"[/i] and the "science" caused my brain to grow fur)

Say "no thanks" and shut the door, just like anyone else trying to sell stuff.

Personally I think companies offering easy credit, catalogue firms, betting shops/companies etc are far, far more destructive in our society

My sisters MiL is JW, her hubby and son are atheist and my sister is turning pro with the CoE, (come to think of it not actually CoE, some christian splinter group can't remember which). Dunno if the JW congregation suggest she should shun them but she doesn't.
Edit ah I see it's former members that get shunned not none members, stil harsh tho.

When at university one of housemates had them call round, he said to them that he was just of out to college, but if they were in the area tomorrow would they call back as he was interested in what they had to say.

In the intervening 24 hours, he had got hold of some old sheets painted satanic symbols on them and hung them from the walls and used fake blood to "decorate" the place... the look on their face as they entered the living room was priceless, they left faster than Usain Bolt.

Not a JW or a Mormon here, an evangelical Christian. And although knocking people’s doors is not something I'm a fan of personally, giving out leaflets and open air witnessing are things I'm regularly involved in. Christians don't believe that our works get us into heaven; we believe Jesus paid the price for us. We witness about what God has done for us out of a genuine concern for/desire to do good to others, in a similar way that you might want to get someone struggling with their weight or depression etc. on a bike, you know it'll do them good. I genuinely believe life is better on this side of the fence and I've been on both sides, that’s why I tell people what I believe.

I'm always slightly conflicted at turning away the Jehovah Witnesses.
Sometimes the ladies are quite hot.

I went out with an ex-JW once. Stunningly pretty. She was filthy too. We never used to get bothered in the park when they used to wonder round chatting to people, which was useful too.

"We witness about what God has done for us out of a genuine concern for/desire to do good to others, in a similar way that you might want to get someone struggling with their weight or depression etc. on a bike, you know it'll do them good. I genuinely believe life is better on this side of the fence and I've been on both sides, that’s why I tell people what I believe. "

Fair enough, but if you don't mind I've already got the Enlightenment and science. You can have your Iron Age desert mystic, I will take Thomas Paine and Voltaire.

We witness about what God has done for us out of a genuine concern for/desire to do good to others, in a similar way that you might want to get someone struggling with their weight

I'm happily imagining the "Disciples Of iDave" standing outside McDonalds or Greggs and handing out dietary advice to the fatties. 😀

Mormons, re becoming a missionary. No you don't have to. There is a choice. I've alot of time for someone who has to walk round in all weathers in basically inappropriate clothing knocking, all day long and being rejected countless times a day. It must really be a roller coaster for a young persons faith- the constant lows and then the highs. Two years, prime years of their life dedicated to their faith.

Whenever I've seen a couple of them I'll stop, smile and talk.

I think anyone who wants to spend their own time basically being nice to people should be applauded, not mocked

-1

They knock on your door. You do not ask for them to do so.

Or would me going door to door extolling the pleasures of mansex be considered being 'nice to people'. They may consider they are doing their gods' work but I consider it rude.

I'm always polite but they are not "being nice to people".

-2.......where do my gay pals fit into your evangelism by the way?

And Mormons? Up until 1965 the Mormon church regarded blacks as being officially sub-human. Thats in the book of Mormon I believe. Please remove yourself from my doorstep.

basically being nice to people

If they were being nice they would be interested in my beliefs and not automatically assume that I'm wrong. I think that is quite nasty.

me going door to door extolling the pleasures of mansex

Now [i]that[/i] would be an eye-opening pamphlet 😆

....and any religion comes out smelling of roses? The fiddler cover ups and attitude towards homosexuality?

On the Shunning issue;

A very good friend of mine got married last year. Most of his family were JW, although he wasn't himself. But because he was married in a Christian church, his parents and brother turned their backs on him. His sister went to the wedding and has now been shunned too.

Despite this, I have to agree with being nice to them. Their faith may be extreme in places, but I hardly live a perfect life myself. They're human when all's said and done. I try and treat others how I'd like to be treated. Is it really so hard to be polite, say "No thank you" and close your door?

Up until 1965 the Mormon church regarded blacks as being officially sub-human.

In mitigation, so did most white people.

"A very good friend of mine got married last year. Most of his family were JW, although he wasn't himself. But because he was married in a Christian church, his parents and brother turned their backs on him. His sister went to the wedding and has now been shunned too."

Well at least he has a decent sister and friends. The rest of his family are despicable.

If I just say "no thank you" and stand there do they just say "OK then", turn around and go away?
No, they are persistent bleeders, so I have to try my best to be polite whilst closing the door on them.
Net result is they make me feel bad about myself and wish they would stay away.

They knock on your door. You do not ask for them to do so

Which is why I'm not a big fan of door knocking, but at the same time if you had come up with a cure for cancer, you would do your best to make your voice heard, you would feel a duty to.

where do my gay pals fit into your evangelism by the way?

Assuming that was aimed at me, I would witness to a homosexual in exactly the same way as i would a hetrosexual. The bible says "all have sinned and fallen short" We're all sinners, including me.

If they were being nice they would be interested in my beliefs

we are. As someone said on the first page after speaking to religious people "I hope I made them think" I don't expect to convert people after one conversation, I'm satisfied just to get people thinking about things they might not normally give much thought about.

I lived next door to Jehovahs Witnesses and also had some of their family live across the street. They were all very nice and polite and never tried to convert me nor my family. However one of them left the church and was disowned by both the church and his family. The guys wife continued to go to church for a while but she was made to feel uncomfotable because her husband had left. She left too.

I don't think this makes them kind at all, and while I will nod in the passing I find their beliefs disgraceful and ignorant.

Well any religion which is based on creationism is based on ignorance really.

open air witnessing

What's that, then?

They're human when all's said and done.

They've [i]disowned their own son and daughter[/i] because they attended a wedding in a building they didn't like? Human isn't the word I'd have used.

Is there much difference anyway? I thought JWs were a form of Christianity?

"where do my gay pals fit into your evangelism by the way?

Assuming that was aimed at me, I would witness to a homosexual in exactly the same way as i would a hetrosexual. The bible says "all have sinned and fallen short" We're all sinners, including me."

No we arent. Having sex isnt wrong.

And my children arent sinners, this idea that we are all born into sin and must make ourselves well. Another utterly despicable idea.

I had a couple come round the other day. They just said "it's a nice day and you probably won't want to spend it listening to us so if you want a couple of leaflets we can leave them, if your not bothered then we won't".

Took the leaflets to see what they were selling and to be polite and I've not seen em since - seems fair enough.

Do other religions do doorstepping, are there Islamic equivalents for example?

I find it a bit rude that someone could think my whole belief system is so meaningless that it could be changed by knocking on my door.

By the way - my wife believes in god and goes to church regularly - i dont. She says i will find out one day - i say so will she.

Each to his or her own - if people want to believe the big book of fairy stories - that's up to them. Just please don't try to push it on me.

I think anyone who wants to spend their own time basically being nice to people should be applauded, not mocked.

+1

People knocking on my door wishing to speak politely with me does not anger me.

In my experience, they've never been anything other than pleasant and polite if a little downhearted when I explain I'm not interested.

I'm quite sure I'd fundamentally disagree with them on many questions, and perhaps find some of their beliefs backward and others downright repellent, but that's not part of the doorstep exchange.

I do feel sorry for their kids when they're taken along though.

open air witnessing
What's that, then?

Talking to people on the street. Sometimes we have meetings outside too.

No we arent. Having sex isnt wrong.

We all have differing opinions on what is right and wrong. what is right to one is a step to far to another. There will always be disagreements on what is right and wrong. But one thing is beyond all doubt is that in some point in every one of our lives we have done wrong to somebody at some time.

"But one thing is beyond all doubt is that in some point in every one of our lives we have done wrong to somebody at some time. "

Really? My daughter when she was 30 seconds old was guilty of sin? Because your holy book says that she was born into a collective Original Sin for which she must atone.

Utterly despicable.

Really? My daughter when she was 30 seconds old was guilty of sin? Because your holy book says that she was born into a collective Original Sin for which she must atone.

Utterly despicable.

A baby has no understanding of right or wrong, she is below the age of accountability as far as the bible is concerned.

Being "born into sin" is talking about human nature, our natural desire to be selfish. Good people fight against this and are therefore less selfish in comparison. But there is only so far our efforts can go, God wants to take away that nature so that there isn't the battle to do right, its in your nature to do right. But first we have to accept that we are in the wrong.

 

Nononononononononono. Go read your holy book pal. Born. Into. Sin.

I'm satisfied just to get people thinking about things they might not normally give much thought about.

I'm not going to allow my kids heads to be filled with this garbage. Children should be encouraged to think for themselves, enquire, ask questions, have fun and learn. They dont need this hocus pocus telling them that from day one they are guilty sinners who will be punished.

Cool we now have moved from a thread on doorstepping to actual door stepping which is great. Though I am not sure what will be more scary PhilAmon, here or a strangers door.

Can you answer me a question though.

Why does god want us to praise him ?

I know, its all very post modern isn't it ?? We need to make up some yoof lingo for online proselytizing, cos I doubt they could spell that.

On the subject of shunning, there was a Salvation Army family in my street, awfully nice, daughter my age at school. We were friendly with them, I went to running club with them, got lifts to the Sally Army hall for Gymnastics classes etc.

Then they went on holiday and couldn't find anybody to look after their cat, so they had it put down.

We shunned them.

God wants to take away that nature so that there isn't the battle to do right, its in your nature to do right. But first we have to accept that we are in the wrong.

You don't need god to do this. There are plenty of people doing the right thing who aren't religous.

Why are we to accept we are in the wrong? Wrong about what exactly?

God wants to take away that nature so that there isn't the battle to do right, its in your nature to do right. But first we have to accept that we are in the wrong.

Didn't God put that nature in us in the first place? Why are we in the wrong for being as God made us?

Then they went on holiday and couldn't find anybody to look after their cat, so they had it put down.

We had a couple of older lady JW's come round recently, and they were quite forceful in convincing me that I was wrong! I played it as a bit of a game and had a very polite chat with them on the doorstep. I would have invited them in, but I was only wearing a dressing gown and pants.

They gave me a flyer detailing how 'evil' the rise of paganism in my local area was (commuter belt Hampshire of all places!), and to watch out for being misled by psychics dealing in 'Astronomy' Sadly i didnt think to keep the flyer as it was brilliant 🙂

The genuinely sad thing is that they clearly had been brainwashed throughout their lifes to the point where they had refused education and didn't understand a lot of basic concepts (to someone of my age) - e.g. when it came down to it they really didnt know or understand what the absolute basics of evolution were, or the difference between astronomy and astrology, or the fact that Pagans arent actually evil, and the comedy of a missionary spreading the word of an 'evil religion'...so they got very flummoxed when I didnt stick to the script 🙂

But I did get them onto string theory and singularitys, just to see how long they would continue arguing. I won because they made the first excuse that they had to go!

We're all sinners, including me

Talking to people on the street. Sometimes we have meetings outside too.

How does that work out for you? Do you get a lot of interest?

what is right to one is a step to far to another.

So what you're saying is, you're homophobic?

A baby has no understanding of right or wrong, she is below the age of accountability as far as the bible is concerned.

Could you point out where in the Bible it covers ages of accountability? I've not come across that one.