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Not everyone processes words or interactions the same way, so I'm giving the benefit of the doubt.
Whereas I'm old enough to have become very cynical.
I'm pretty sure that when some people, including governors etc, say things like "Trump is a dictator!" they actually mean "Trump is behaving like a dictator!" and not "Trump is actually a real dictator as enshrined in law".
Absolutely, which is precisely why I said on this very page the following :
California Governor Gavin Newsom said the move was fulfilling "the deranged fantasy of a dictatorial president".
Sounds like a perfectly reasonable assessment to me, yes of course Trump is behaving like a dictatorial president. Are we witnessing the overthrow of democracy in the United States and the establishment of a one man dictatorship as TJ says might "quite possibly" happen? Nah, Trump won't be US president in 4 years time.
Trump is not a dictator and there is zero chance of him becoming dictator of the United States. A point which I thought was worth making considering the direction the thread was going.
And if making that simple point winds people up and gets their "backs up", as alleged, then I guess it goes some way in explaining why STW political threads have largely become echo chambers which lack any real political diversity, not a particularly healthy situation and a sad reflection of the lack of tolerance.
Yes I know that in classic STW tradition this is supposed to be the "we all hate Trump and can call him whatever we like about him" thread but try to think of something more worthwhile to get wound up about than someone pointing out that Donald Trump isn't a dictator and will not become one.
and there is zero chance of him becoming dictator of the United States
zero chance? Its clearly his intention. ~will he pull it off? Its certainly possible
A point which I thought was worth making considering the direction the thread was going.
Why's that, then?
Of course there is not zero chance. We would all hope that democracy would kick in at some point but then that is what people in other countries thought before their country turned into a dictatorship.
Ernie
I agree with you on your second and third paragraphs, however there's a greater than "zero chance" (para 1) because there's a chance of the US becoming an authoritarian state. It's already slumped to "flawed democracy".
On Stockemer's six-step model they're possibly at step 4, but that future isn't inevitable providing someone gets their finger out
The US only has 60 years experience of democracy for all citizens and still has some learning to do
In the last ten years a lot of 'zero chance' events have turned out to be non-zero...
zero chance? Its clearly his intention. ~will he pull it off? Its certainly possible
Yeah I know that Donald Trump appears to have metamorphosed from a clueless halfwit who stood no chance of achieving anything that he out set to achieve, into some sort of evil genius whose cunning plan could well see him establish a one man dictatorship, but no, zero chance of that happening.
Apart from the long established stability of the system of government the United States is one of the most politically polarised societies in the world, the idea that one man could become dictator/president for life without a bloody civil war is not feasible.
And no also to the suggestion that is clearly his intention. What is obvious though imo is that Trump is determined to use and abuse presidential powers as much as he possibly can so that he can do as much as he possibly can in the 3.5 years he has left as POTUS.
Of course there is not zero chance
And "I" have been accused of dancing on a pin ! 🤣
Yes zero chance as in there is zero chance of a military coup occurring in the UK, or the Pope declaring that he is no longer a Catholic. Zero as in "well yes, I guess that technically it could happen".
Donald Trump will not be POTUS in June 2028, which I guess is why he is in such a rush to stamp his authority and leave what he hopes will be his legacy.
Obviously I am going to look silly if Trump is still president in 2028 but I'm willing to stick my neck out on that one.
He could be vice president, or he could have a controlling role not even envisaged at all in the constitution. Plenty of ways to bend the rules, as wannabe dictators do. Or he could be dead of course.
We live in hope.
It's already slumped to "flawed democracy".
Its been a pseudo democracy for a long time. Its been an authoritarian state for a good many years. Its now a rogue state and the very rule of law is under attack
I have to agree with Ernie here, trump won't become a dictator. Sure it's theoretically possible but in reality it won't happen. If I gave trump zero chance of spouting wings and learning to fly, I'd give about a 0.001 chance of him becoming a dictator.
He will of course continue to abuse his power, and screw up his country and pretty much the world.
He will of course continue to abuse his power, and screw up his country and pretty much the world.
I'm leaning towards the view suggested earlier that we have to learn to live without the US. I've thought for a very, very long time that we should be aligned more with Europe and Scandinavia and less with the US.
Ps..I removed the last bit of my post as I don't want to wish ill on anyone, not even Donald Trump. The man is xxxxing up an awful lot of lives however..
I'm leaning towards the view suggested earlier that we have to learn to live without the US. I've thought for a very, very long time that we should be aligned more with Europe and Scandinavia and less with the US.
Great if we do that. But he can still reap havoc on the rest of the world. For example..There are kids in Ukraine and Gaza dying on a daily basis because he's basically given Israel and Russia free reign to do whatever they like
It's tragic..
I think Donald Trump's repeated claims that he would consider seeking a third term has probably been taken too much at face value by some. Trump talks a lot of bollocks and often says stuff that he has no intention of doing just for effect.
Second term presidents are often seen as lame duck presidents, I can't imagine a mega-narcissist such as Trump being happy with being seen as a lame duck anything. Introduce the possibility of a third term and suddenly the term lame duck is no longer appropriate.
Also by suggesting the possibility of a third term Trump might have thought that it would perhaps mitigate the curse of the second term.
https://www.dailyjournal.com/article/382896-the-second-term-curse-will-donald-trump-defy-history
Trump won't serve a third term, and he knows it.
I think Donald Trump's repeated claims that he would consider seeking a third term has probably been taken too much at face value by some.
So if Trump says something controversial and previously thought impossible, it shouldn't be taken at face value. If someone posts something on here that is controversial and previously thought impossible, they absolutely mean it to the letter and should be jumped on for it.
Yeah, OK.
I guess this is not the moment to point out that none of those suggesting some sort of move to dictatorship have said it would not involve a bloody civil war either.
I'm leaning towards the view suggested earlier that we have to learn to live without the US. I've thought for a very, very long time that we should be aligned more with Europe and Scandinavia and less with the US.
The same games are being played out across Europe as we see in the US. we are just not as far along the path yet, but the direction of travel is clear. That is why we shouldn't just be looking at the US as an isolated political phenomenon. We (our leaders) should be looking at what is happening and taking action to prevent the same from happening here. Unfortunately the likes of Starmer and other European leaders are absolutely asleep at the wheel and driving us over a cliff.
Apart from actually that is not so. Poland has pulled back to the left, Netherlands have frozen out Wilders, Spain has moved left IIRC.
I guess this is not the moment to point out that none of those suggesting some sort of move to dictatorship have said it would not involve a bloody civil war either.
Well apparently you have decided that now is the moment ! I have simply pointed out that if the United States were to go down the road of a one man dictatorship it would in all likelihood involve a bloody civil war. Apart from anything else the US is hardly the most politically united country in the world.
But I am sorry if you feel that I should never made the point because you believe everyone already knows that!
You are really rattled that my opinions don't exactly match yours, aren't you? Maybe let it go 💡
I think the third term/dictator stuff depends a lot on how he ages. He has 3+ years to go yet, during that time he might change a lot, maybe more mellow and doddery, maybe more angry and unhinged, maybe just mentally less competent. It hard to predict.
Apart from actually that is not so. Poland has pulled back to the left, Netherlands have frozen out Wilders, Spain has moved left IIRC.
In the past couple of weeks. Poland has just elected a right wing president to restrict Tusks power, and Wilders has just brought down the government in the Netherlands rather than being frozen out.
But the main point is that the UK, France and Germany are lead by governments that are continually moving to the right, travelling further from the post war consensus and handing power over to the oligarchy. Trump didn't just happen he is the result of 40+ years of political failure, of politics for the wealthy instead of for all, and Europe (and to be honest pretty much all of the western world) has been travelling in the same direction.
I think the third term/dictator stuff depends a lot on how he ages. He has 3+ years to go yet, during that time he might change a lot, maybe more mellow and doddery, maybe more angry and unhinged, maybe just mentally less competent. It hard to predict.
In the past couple of weeks. Poland has just elected a right wing president to restrict Tusks power, and Wilders has just brought down the government in the Netherlands rather than being frozen out.
Poland got rid of its right wing government chrisatiuan nationalist government and elected a centerist one. Wilders collapsed the government because no one would work with him on his far right agenda nor let him be PM and all other parties are refusing to go into coalition with him in future. He is completely frozen out of power
It's already slumped to "flawed democracy".
That "accolade" was awarded in 2016 when Trump v1.0 was ongoing
Its been a pseudo democracy for a long time.
If by that you mean until the 1960s, then yes. At that point it went full democracy by allowing citizens of all backgrounds to vote and stayed a full democracy until 2016^^
Its been an authoritarian state for a good many years.
That's not true. Emotive language, yes. On the spectrum towards, yes
Its now a rogue state and the very rule of law is under attack
Which is why it's on the spectrum towards authoritarianism. It isn't inevitable and the slide can be stopped
The US hasn't succumbed to a coup, more an erosion of democracy and as such that can be halted, if Congress acts
A dictatorship is even further away
Since Donald Trump's inauguration, the country has embarked on the slippery slope toward autocracy. From Day 1 in office, Donald Trump has shown little respect for democratic rules and conventions. In less than three months since his inauguration, the cracks in the US's democratic fabric became more visible. https://doi.org/10.1111/polp.70032
Anyway, I'll leave the thread to it for now.
f by that you mean until the 1960s, then yes. At that point it went full democracy by allowing citizens of all backgrounds to vote and stayed a full democracy until 2016^^
No I mean now. Not every vote is equal weight in the US system. some voters get far more influence than others
Its also very authoritarian and your choice is between two right wing parties
Well we all agree on one thing. I'm not sure precisely what it is. Finding it more challenging than expected as to what we might all agree on. Even something as simplistic as "Trump is a massive bellend", well, do we actually agree on that? Trump is greedy and has no respect for any person who cannot elevate his power and riches. Trump does not care for the planet nor for any of the life that thrives on it. He cares only for his power and riches. Trump is a symptom, the tip of the iceberg. Trump does not see beauty or worth in anything but his own power and riches. For people who want to build a better world, Trump is very much the wrong person to be one of the most powerful world leaders. Trump is a very concerning choice for people who want to see a better world, better for the earth, better for the people of the earth, better for earth's ecology and life systems.
Trump comes from a background of real estate where it's all about the deal and the deal is couched in purely monetary terms. He doesn't appear to understand that in international politics the deal can be about other things.
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Well we all agree on one thing. I'm not sure precisely what it is. Finding it more challenging than expected as to what we might all agree on. Even something as simplistic as "Trump is a massive bellend", well, do we actually agree on that? Trump is greedy and has no respect for any person who cannot elevate his power and riches. Trump does not care for the planet nor for any of the life that thrives on it. He cares only for his power and riches. Trump is a symptom, the tip of the iceberg. Trump does not see beauty or worth in anything but his own power and riches. For people who want to build a better world, Trump is very much the wrong person to be one of the most powerful world leaders. Trump is a very concerning choice for people who want to see a better world, better for the earth, better for the people of the earth, better for earth's ecology and life systems.
Good post that and I couldn't agree more.
Poland got rid of its right wing government chrisatiuan nationalist government and elected a centerist one.
They elected a right wing president more recently.
Yeah I know that Donald Trump appears to have metamorphosed from a clueless halfwit who stood no chance of achieving anything that he out set to achieve, into some sort of evil genius whose cunning plan could well see him establish a one man dictatorship,
FFS why do you keep repeating this utter bollocks. People arent saying that. Are you really incapable of grasping this sort of basic point or are you just trolling?
yes but they had a far right christian nationalist government - they now have a left of centre social democratic one
How about Spain? Not heading rightwards. the basic thesis is wrong. all european nations are not moving rightwards
Again you have to remember Trump is a psychopath. He has no conscience or morals and in his mind if he says something is true it is. He has very disordered thinking. I am reasonably confident he actually believes his nonsense. He really does think he is saving the US and he is the best president ever thus in his mind its his duty to remain president.
Do not look at his actions as if he thought normally as he does not.
the basic thesis is wrong. all european nations are not moving rightwards
The basic thesis that a lot of money is being poured in by hard right groups and they have had a reasonable amount of success is true.
For Poland the attempts to undermine the rule of law didnt succeed under PiS but there is a lot of work to do to simply undo the damage. The right wing funders will be back for round 2 though and unless the damage caused is undone it will be easier next time.
Spain the hard right have gained some votes although havent managed to translate that into power. I suspect their history has something to do with that. However its worth noting that similar patterns were on display in other European countries so it might just be they are slightly behind and with more investment they will get better results.
Or it might just be that the fightback is and can be successful as in Poland, Netherlands, Spain and Scotland
No mention of Scotland but Le Mondeo has a different take on what is happening in Europe
Latest from Canada...
https://www.youtube.com/live/iXqQ_yk5RsA?si=Uu6tthkt11uEn7zJ
Trump lives in Trumpland basically all his life he’s lived in a totally different world from reality, he’s basically been media savvy all his life and managed to bend his fake world into the real world.
I think he’s literally unique in this actually being an influencer before the internet and being quick to se the power of tools of the internet age.
Watching the news last night reporting from a research ship in Antarctica. Trump has slashed funding for the research station by half and the scientists that work there are banned from using the words climate change 😡
The arrogance of the man knows no bounds does it ?
Gavin Newsom's Court request for a Restraining Order will be heard today (Thursday). That'll be overnight UK time
President Trump's legal team started their legal notice with the following sentence,
Defendants President Donald J. Trump, Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, and the U.S. Department of Defense file this notice of their opposition to Plaintiffs’ request for an ex parte temporary restraining order.
US legal process and democracy are still alive
