In some cases, I believe that judges have said to the jury that they would be allowed to make an adverse inference if the defendant repeatedly pleads the 5th amendment.
Is this standard practice in US criminal cases or an exception to the norm?
Not only that but he then gets to pardon others who might testify against him having done deals so he can use that as leverage.
Apparently, he won't be able to pardon in these cases because these are violations of state law, not federal law. The trial can be moved to a federal court within the state, but the only benefit would be to change the juror pool to a potentially more sympathetic electorate.
I expect a lot more of this sort of thing - individuals losing their shit and getting locked up rather than a large-scale attempt to storm the courthouse.
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1691953172942672308
All very interesting.
I had thought that it was all a grift - that he's calculated that every day he holds-out, repeating the same bollocks about stolen elections and suggesting he'll run again earns him $X in donations, which he won't have to return if he later decides not to run. An I'm also expecting that the more his legal woes are in the press, the higher that X goes.
I had expected him to eventually cut a deal - he'll agree not to run, as long as the charges against him are dropped. Everyone wins: Don gets to keep the money and stay out of prison, GOP get a different candidate (who Trump endorses) and the country/world get to avoid the potential of a second trump term.
However, I feel like that's all backfired spectacularly - that the latest charges in Georgia (particularly the rico charges) can't just be made to "go away" without some fairly heavy handed political interference in the judicial process.
It's possible that they might have cornered him too effectively.
I had expected him to eventually cut a deal – he’ll agree not to run, as long as the charges against him are dropped
Luckily, the criminal system and the election process are independent of each other.
Although i dont know how this is all actually going to pan out.
The associated MAGA meltdown is quite fun to watch.
Good insights ^ ta!
History in the making.
Could biden him ?
Might stop some serious shit happening.
Could biden him ?
Pardon, you mean? Not for state crimes in Georgia. For federal crimes, yes, but I doubt he would. My understanding of pardons is that the offender has basically admitted that they were guilty. In the case of Richard Nixon, he left office in disgrace and his career was finished, he's basically only remembered now for leaving office in disgrace. Gerald Ford took a lot of criticism for pardoning him, but I think that it was the best thing to do. In the case of Trump, he seems to be incapable of grasping that he's committed serious crimes and has no intention of stopping. That disqualifies him from a pardon IMO.
the thought of 5 yrs in an orange jump suit might make him bite his tongue long enough and with a contrite statement from his lawyers.... Biden gets to look all cross party and a bigger man and saves the USA from the embarrassment of locking up a former President.
the thought of 5 yrs in an orange jump suit might make him bite his tongue long enough and with a contrite statement from his lawyers
He was twice impeached by the House of Representatives, but not convicted in the Senate. The Republicans who voted against conviction (which requires 67 votes out of 100) argued that he had learned his lesson. He clearly has not and I doubt that he ever will. Pardoning him will just encourage him to keep offending because he has never had to face consequences for his actions anytime in his life.
Trump will never go to prison, more for logistics than anything. Can you imagine uncle Donny mincing around cell block H with his secret service minders and I doubt any sentence would warrant solitary confinement for his own safety.
The most he will get would be house arrest, maybe for a very long time but not behind bars.
Would be still be entitled to secret service minders if he were a convicted felon behind bars?
To be fair, the image of him without his trademark makeup and wig, stood in a jump suit being lead away in handcuffs to any sort of incarceration would likely be enough for me
I watched or read something about how a prisoner like Trump might be incarcerated, I think the conclusion of that article/video was that there was a military base where such people could be confined.
It's interesting watching Giuliani being very public about Trump not paying is his fees for months and months. Looks like he's sending a message that he'll flip unless he's paid. Which suggests that Giuliani is pretty scared about what's happening. Goodness knows what emails, documents, recordings he's got. I think Trump hasn't paid Ellis either, which probably make her a target also.
Rats sack in fighting a - rearrange etc etc
Popcorn ready for Monday.
I had thought that it was all a grift –
Apparently fundraising numbers for 2024 aren't anything like as strong as they should be, and he's been raiding PACs for legal fees for months now, and allegedly they're now broke.
...that there was a military base where such people could be confined.
Trust it has an 18 hole course.
Looks like he’s sending a message that he’ll flip unless he’s paid. Which suggests that Giuliani is pretty scared about what’s happening. Goodness knows what emails, documents, recordings he’s got.
I dunno. Anyone stupid enough not to get paid up front by Trump probably isnt going to be clever enough to stash away the handy blackmail material.
Pardon, you mean? Not for state crimes in Georgia. For federal crimes, yes, but I doubt he would.
The hypothetical question was put to him, and he just laughed in response.
I had expected him to eventually cut a deal – he’ll agree not to run, as long as the charges against him are dropped.
If that were to happen, he would be utterly vindicated and it would be a massive boost to the Republicans, as he has claimed throughout that this is a political witchhunt designed to derail his campaign.
as he has claimed throughout that this is a political witchhunt designed to derail his campaign.
It can be both. The timing and aligning everything at the same time might be designed to burn through cash to weaken campaigning. The US elections are particularly swung by spending.
About that press conference…
I hope there is a backup plan, organised by a few folk close to him last minute against the advice of many others.
And that it looks like this.
This nicely summarizes the position the Republican leaders have put themselves in by indulging Trump's behaviour. The Bulwark is run by Never Trumpers - people who left the Republican Party because it became completely unmoored from any principles when in nominated Trump.
The End of Magical Thinking?: The GOP's harsh reality check
Reality coming home to bite, no easy path to a pardon in Georgia.
https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1692380189030785050
👆unavailable in Europe I'm afraid
Georgia’s most powerful Republican politicians rejected pro-Donald Trump calls to change the state constitution to give the governor direct authority to pardon those convicted of crimes.
Far-right Trump supporters have pressed Gov. Brian Kemp and other GOP leaders to pursue an overhaul of pardon rules after the former president was charged this week with orchestrating a far-ranging “criminal enterprise” to overturn his defeat in Georgia’s 2020 election.
Such a move would involve a constitutional amendment, which requires a two-thirds vote in the General Assembly and support from a majority of voters in a referendum. It can’t pass without significant Democratic support, rendering it a political impossibility.
Press conference cancelled. Lol.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/trump-cancels-news-conference-release-report-2020-election-2023-08-18/
Dammit, that was going to be the biggest sh*tshow ever...the biggest sh*tshow from the biggest and best president. I had my covfeve ready and everything.
Just another promise he failed to deliver on...
Georgia’s most powerful Republican politicians rejected pro-Donald Trump calls to change the state constitution to give the governor direct authority to pardon those convicted of crimes.
Just astonishing that Pro-Trump supporters are going directly to - "change the rules to make it easier to get off after he's obviously going to be found guilty" I guess that mean that at least they understand that the man they support is a crook, but making such blatant attempts to subvert the justice system surely highlights to every-one else how little interest they have in the democratic rule of law. They just want their man in the White House and they're prepared to do anything to make that happen,
Dammit, that was going to be the biggest sh*tshow ever…the biggest sh*tshow from the biggest and best president. I had my covfeve ready and everything.
<ahem>
I really dont think that the spectacular f-ckwittery of this farce gets the credit it deserves
Thick of it/Parks & Rec/ The Office couldnt have done this better
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Seasons_Total_Landscaping_press_conference
Sad!
Meanwhile...
Personal information, including the addresses and photos of the jurors, were shared on right-wing platforms.
Fulton County Sheriff's Office said it was aware of the threats, and was trying to track down those behind them.
The identity of the jurors were made public in the indictment, a routine practice in Georgia.
But after the identities of the jurors were made public, supporters of former President Trump seemingly compiled information available online and posted photographs and addresses to forums, including the social media site Telegram.
Off to a good start 😔
Can you imagine getting the call to be a Jury member on this circus .
Can you imagine getting the call to be a Jury member on this circus .
Really quite frightening.
It takes one nutter, who lets face it will be armed to the teeth legally in the US, to decide to 'alter the jurors opinion'...
Just astonishing that Pro-Trump supporters are going directly to – “change the rules to make it easier to get off after he’s obviously going to be found guilty” I guess that mean that at least they understand that the man they support is a crook,
I don't think so - they seem to think that this is all a conspiracy and the orange chimp (who is a sweet innocent child) will be denied a fair trial and found guilty as a fait accompli. They don't necessarily believe he's benter than a 3 bob note.
The jury in the EJean Carol defamation rape civil case (where the mandarin Mussolini was found guilty) were anonymous- surely the same standard will be applied here 🤷♂️
The jury in the EJean Carol defamation rape civil case (where the mandarin Mussolini was found guilty) were anonymous- surely the same standard will be applied here 🤷♂️
Different rules in different states. Also different rules if it's federal or state level.
Georgia publishes grand jury names, other states don't. Grand juries are a thing we don't have in the UK, it's not like a trial jury
The grand jury in Georgia will have been released now the indictment has been made which is why their names are in the document
Can you imagine getting the call to be a Jury member on this circus .
yep. you do wonder if it was deliberately done to make it impossible to form a jury locally. it's all a little frightening really
It’s interesting watching Giuliani being very public about Trump not paying is his fees for months and months. Looks like he’s sending a message that he’ll flip unless he’s paid.
The other attorneys will be in a bind as they will have to find $25-50k retainer just to engage an attorney to defend them. That's a nice conversation to have with your better half when you have a mortgage, kids in college etc.
Attorney-client privilege also goes out the window so they won't be able to use that tactic. For example, if I go to my attorney and say I've robbed a bank can you help defend me that's covered by ACP. But if I go to my attorney and say I'm thinking of robbing a bank, what's the best way of doing it without being caught that isn't covered by ACP.
Nearly all the attorneys in these cases will flip.
They don’t necessarily believe he’s benter than a 3 bob note.
it's a weird disassociation problem that his supporters have. In interviews, many of them are content to declare that they know he's no angel, or will admit that they have issues with his behaviour, and yet seem willing to ignore all of that just to see a man that honestly wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire; back at the White House, it's genuinely baffling to watch.
Can you imagine getting the call to be a Jury member on this circus .
You might as well paint a target on your forehead. Lets be realistic about this, its now if a jury member gets shot, its WHEN. Who'd have imagined that when you allow all manner of shitkickers to tool themselves up with assault rifles that you'd effectively end up with mob rule?
back at the White House, it’s genuinely baffling to watch.
Because the liberal commie democrats are worse.
I think the evangelicals for example use the Cyrus the great excuse. Sure he might be an arsehole and an unbeliever but he ended the Babylonian captivity.
