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I’m not on twitter X, never have been, never will and hubby has just said he’s leaving.
I'm not sure about 'X' bias - my feed has been full of positive Harris stories for weeks with Trump being constantly lampooned. If I went only by what X fed me I'd have bet my house on a Harris landslide.
maccruiskeenFull Member
"Different cheek, same arse.
Lembit Opik’s autobiography"
This needs an award. Genius
I’d love Starmer/anyone to just say we can’t afford to let lies and ignorance lead us down that US path
We're already on that path and Starmer is central to it. The lies are those made by politicians who claim they are acting in the interests of everyone when we all know it isn't true. Obviously Trump's voters and supporters are going to find out the same thing in time but that will just open the door to another populist. You can't beat populists by telling people you can't do anything to help them.
You think the poor are treated on an equal footing in this country to the well off?
see, thing is I’ve a professional job and paid fairly well. I’m also historically at least, pretty left leaning.
when results like this, and brexit come in my opinion sways further and firmer towards that the fact that a seemingly large majority and an increasing percentage of the population are, frankly, utter scumbags.
That in turn makes me significantly less willing to give up income for taxation to go towards any form of rewarding these scumbags. I would far rather keep that to spend on giving my family a better life.
I can guarantee I’m not alone.
Well, I reckon I owe someone 50p, but I can't remember who I made the bet with or even what page I made it.
Suspect this was before Biden dropped out though, so maybe void.
Can't believe the world has 4 more years of the tangerine numb nuts.
Come on Dems, say it with me “It’s a private platform, if you don’t like it, make your own twitter” lol
No idea what your point is.
I'm simply pointing out that it is strange that Musk is banning journalists from X, given he bought the platform to defend his absolutist notion of free speech (a notion I personally am not against).
It's also strange that you think Trump is any sort of free speech warrior, given he wants to strip half the US press of their licenses.
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/10/22/media/trump-strip-tv-station-licenses-punish-media/index.html
Trumps campaign talked a lot about a positive vision for the future and the changes he would make, while the Harris campaign just screeched constantly about how Trump is a facist and the next Hitler.
Trump talked a lot about how immigrants were eating cats, he talked about how hed like it if the press were shot, he talked a lot about how his oponents were the enemy of the people, he spoke about an invasion of immigrants and how he wants to deport 100s of 1000s of them
And y'know he did try and overturn the results of the last election, get a mob to storm the capitol and keep spreading the same lies that it was stolen from him fraudulently, actual fascist stuff
I’d love Starmer/anyone to just say we can’t afford to let lies and ignorance lead us down that US path, and make it clear he won’t pander to it.
So would I. Just not in public. Tricky few years coming up without unnecessarily alienating the US administration.
I mean part of me wants to see the US back on a path of drawing into itself, into increasing irrelevance. But it's just too big.
and lets not forget that musk bought twitter with the pretense of cleaning up bots and its now overun with them and that he'd stop fake news
but ended up just spreading conspiracy theories directly funded by putin, personally retweeting a lot of their great replacement theory racism
https://www.wired.com/story/influencers-tenet-benny-johnson-tim-pool-russia-propaganda-videos/
yay a bastion of free speech!!
What amazes me is that when not even in power in 2020, the dems can orchestrate the largest voter fraud in US history. Yet seemingly they couldn't do it this time, when you'd think they'd be in a far better position to get away with such dastardly behaviour..
I just don't understand...
when results like this, and brexit come in my opinion sways further and firmer towards that the fact that a seemingly large majority and an increasing percentage of the population are, frankly, utter scumbags.
No, they ill informed, easily led, and aren't being provided with a genuine alternative.
Let's tackle those issues.
If you love free speech, but don’t apply that to everyone, what you actually love is privilege…
the irony being that musk has actually surpressed those he didnt like on twitter
as well as folding to various governments and regimes around the world
yet people still claim hes about free speech and not just doing it for his own personal version of it
speech has never been free of consequences
thats why libel laws exist, its why you dont walk up to to someone in the pub and call them a ****
Double points if Led By Donkeys manage to get a poster / banner / hot air balloon in shot during the inauguration.
I reckon you’d hear Trump’s eruption from here (I’m not in DC)
PS - I know that’s facetious, but if it’s going to be pants we might as well find joy where you can.
My point is that before Elon bought Twitter, every legitimate outrage about censorship was met with the cry of ‘if you don’t like it, start your own twitter’ from the left.
Yet now- they are suddenly all pro free speech because they can’t abuse X’s terms and conditions with impunity.
Typical lefty hypocrites.
And Trump is probably right- there is protecting free speech and then there is tolerating full on propaganda.
Respecting someone’s right to say what they like doesn’t mean giving it equal air time.
Like the five seconds of Maitles laying into Boris last night I caught (and I loathe Boris). Fine on a YouTube channel. Not fine for a state broadcaster.
I've been mulling this over since i woke up prematurely early at 6am this morning (normally don't have to get before 8). There could actually be a positive such as some of the gaffs and stupid crackpot ideas to make us laugh.
Maybe straws and clutching come to mind.
I’m just mystified why they let Boris on the tele to advertise his book
Funny isn’t it how the drive for inclusivity and equality never includes those that are economically or culturally disadvantaged?
that quite frankly is bullshit
Turns out kimbers had the words I was reaching for. Also applicable to:
And people of every class, colour and creed back him all the way.
Yes, there are, no doubt, some (for example) black LGBTQ+ folk who voted for Trump. But I would suggest the number who back him 'all the way' is pretty small. And, at the macro level, there is a large bias in favour of white men in Trump's voter base.
My point is that before Elon bought Twitter, every legitimate outrage about censorship was met with the cry of ‘if you don’t like it, start your own twitter’ from the left.
Do you have an example of this "legitimate outrage"? You pretty much CAN abuse Twitter's terms with impunity, which is why so many people have left - it's a misogynist, racist cesspit since Elon sacked everyone and gave free reign to (irony) all the accounts that abuse its terms.
given donalds track record of falling out with everyone hes ever worked with, the eventual elon split should be good TV
Typical lefty hypocrites.
Bingo. No need to take any notice of this one going forwards, then.
Like the five seconds of Maitles laying into Boris last night I caught (and I loathe Boris). Fine on a YouTube channel. Not fine for a state broadcaster.
FWIW, advertising is not allowed on the BBC and that is what Johnson was there to do. His name, by the way, is Alexander. That's what his friends and family know him as. 'Boris' is his second name and he uses it as a character construct to fool the hard of thinking. It's somehow cuddlier than chilly old Alexander, eh?
Is that in your opinion as a Black LGBTQ+ American or are you putting words into someone else’s mouth because you consider yourself so enlightened?
My “Pro Trump” YouTube feed contained suggestions from loads of Black YouTubers…
Like the five seconds of Maitles laying into Boris last night I caught (and I loathe Boris). Fine on a YouTube channel. Not fine for a state broadcaster
You also missed that she left the state broadcaster at the end of 2021.
the Harris campaign just screeched constantly about how Trump is a facist and the next Hitler.
To be fair, he stood at a rally and started banging on about immigrants affecting the American bloodline. Which I think is taking white American privilege to the furthest extreme.
It is still possible for Kamala Harris to become president and Trump not to.
That would require both Biden and Trump somehow to become incapacitated prior to January 6 whereupon President Harris would hand over to President Vance.
I couldn’t care less…. If he agreed beforehand not to advertise then he shouldn’t have done it either.
Free speech doesn’t mean “no rules”.
But neither does it mean giving equal airtime to heavily politically biased presenters in either direction.
Given the collusion involved last time in suppressing the Hunter Laptop story- Trump has every right to be a bit miffed at the state of the US ‘press’.
That he triumphed in spite of the huge bias against him this time, just goes to show how the MSM grasp of the ‘narrative’ is failing year on year since last time…
Congratulations are flying in
Love Macron's phrase " with your convictions and mine". Chapeau!
Channel 4 are a state-owned broadcaster btw. I wasn’t referring to the beeb…..
when results like this, and brexit come in my opinion sways further and firmer towards that the fact that a seemingly large majority and an increasing percentage of the population are, frankly, utter scumbags.
No, they ill informed, easily led, and aren’t being provided with a genuine alternative.Let’s tackle those issues.
lol
the MSM
Oh my. That's one away from me shouting "House!"
What's the finale? My last square is something of the anti-lockdown/anti-vax/covid-denial ilk.
Go on. You know you want to.
Love the snarfing liberal elite chipping in to prove everyone’s point lol
To be honest, their influence is shrinking so fast that they will just be the BATOLM soon (Bitter And Twisted Old Lefty Media).
Turns out kimbers had the words I was reaching for.
And yet neither of you care to explain why. Do you seriously think the poor and less well off are treated with the same respect and inclusivity as we extend to other minority groups?
My point is that before Elon bought Twitter, every legitimate outrage about censorship was met with the cry of ‘if you don’t like it, start your own twitter’ from the left.
Yet now- they are suddenly all pro free speech because they can’t abuse X’s terms and conditions with impunity.
Typical lefty hypocrites.
There's plenty of hypocrisy on the left on social media. No arguments from me there.
So would you also say all the right wingers that were complaining about censorship on twitter, and now have no problems with X banning journalists Elon doesn't like, are typical right wing hypocrites?
@dazh - some are, some less so.
Pensioners for example are treated as Demi-gods by the media.
The unemployed, not so much.
Bitter And Twisted Old Lefty Media
CH you've raised some interesting points but FFS lay off the 'lefty' nonsense. The mainstream media are not lefties any more than most of the people on this forum. You don't appear to understand what a 'lefty' is so maybe go and find out before spouting more bollocks eh?
Given the collusion involved last time in suppressing the Hunter Laptop story- Trump has every right to be a bit miffed at the state of the US ‘press’.
eyeroll emoji
FBI had warned companies not to share russian fakenews
laptop story was pushed by Russian accounts or proxies
so social media companies didnt touch it, but it turned out to actually be legitimate (although not the actual stuff that implicated biden sr as russian sources & trumpettes had claimed
Its amazing that ignoring the MSM ends up being about consuming the stuff that Russia wants to- see the stuff that Musk & Trump have retweeted from Tim Pool , Tucker 'attacked by demons' carlson and others funded by the Kremlin and lets not go down the antivax- ivermectin wormhole...
No because the oppression inflicted on the people I’m thinking of was proved to be nothing but politically motivated propaganda. It wasn’t part of a rules based order.
They woke up one day, decided 2+2=5 and purged everyone who said WTF….
Besides- if the shoe has been on the other foot, the journalists involved would have probably been suicided!!
On the lefty thing, I’ve already explained it’s shorthand for whatever the hell we are supposed to call the open border, globalist, pro censorship, oppressive, DEI obsessed conglomerate of interests.
Lefty/dem is quickest and easiest even though as I say, L/R is pretty much meaningless now….
To me, it seems that Trumps policies are more about thwarting technological innovation.
all of his laws against women and the environment are just ‘Kaoss’, with the goal of keeping the left occupied with stuff that should have been properly codified decades ago.
Behave Kimbers lol
It was outright election interference.
And let’s not go down the Russia route…. Well mainly because since Hilary smashed up and bleached her laptop there is no more to say about it anyway.
On the lefty thing, I’ve already explained it’s shorthand for whatever the hell we are supposed to call the open border, globalist, pro censorship, oppressive, DEI obsessed conglomerate of interests.
Which is nonsense, I'm what most people would call a classic lefty, an extremist left even and have been accused of it many times on here. I'm also anti-globaliist, anti-censorship, anti-oppression and anti-authoritarian. Granted I don't particularly have a problem with open (or at least porous) borders and don't have a problem with DEI as long as it's not being rammed down my throat in a judgemental manner but the other aspects you mention are classic traits of rightwing neoliberal capitalism. Your association of all the above into the phrase 'lefty' makes no sense either in the traditional description of a lefty socialist or a more modern one in terms of a left liberal.
I doubt he'll be thwarting Elon Musks tech given Musk we'll be in charge of his own regulation.
Not sure I'd feel too comfortable around his driverless cars...
Lockdown seemed like a good initial theory implemented by clinically insane people to me.
I kind of got the idea behind it first time around but when it morphed into bonkers and ultimately made-up laws that seemed to me to be WORSE than doing nothing (ie no outdoor exercise, country walks etc etc) then I quickly decided it had become nothing but a psy-op to test compliance in large populations.
And let’s not go down the Russia route…. Well mainly because since Hilary smashed up and bleached her laptop there is no more to say about it anyway.
Oh, there's plenty to say about Russia, very little of it to do with Trump's fabrications.
It's this kind of bad faith manufactured bullshit that leads us to where we are today.
What did you make of lockdown, BTW?
This is the Trump thread isn't it.
Not sure I get your point Dazh. People and political ideas are complex and multi layered.
But those broad definitions get close enough to defining the sides of the culture war I am referring to.
To me, it seems that Trumps policies are more about thwarting technological innovation.
all of his laws against women and the environment are just ‘Kaoss’, with the goal of keeping the left occupied with stuff that should have been properly codified decades ago.
You missed off the destabilising effect of his avowed non-interventionism. Like it or not, past balls-ups or not, I'd much rather have an engaged US in global affairs in 2024 than one pretending they can just pull down the shutters.
I quickly decided it had become nothing but a psy-op to test compliance in large populations.
You are taking the piss now, right?
Actually, no. Never mind.
Life is too short for what comes next. This has been done a thousand times and it usually follows one or two pretty familiar paths.
Forget it.
No. It became totally potty. You could share a taxi with a stranger with masks on and breath in each others air but couldn’t sit with a friend on a park bench.
The irony is that a lot of the gestapo enforcing it probably tweeted at some point in the past three months that “I hope the bad orange nazi doesn’t win”.
Not sure I get your point Dazh.
It's fairly simple. What you're calling a lefty I call a rightwing neoliberal capitalist. It's about as far away from the traditional definition of lefty* as you can get. 🙂
*one who believes in socialist ideas aiming to empower working people, reduce and mitigate the power of capital, eliminate poverty and deliver social justice.
the conversation would get unwieldy if I had to caveat every post with a massive definition
You could just use the phrase 'neoliberal corporatist/capitalist' instead of 'lefty' because that would be much more accurate.
You could share a taxi with a stranger with masks on and breath in each others air but couldn’t sit with a friend on a park bench.
No you couldn't.
Taxis (of the Toyota Avensis variety) had to put up a plastic barrier between the front and back seats, like any vaguely modern black cab.
And travel was supposed to be only if really necessary, so there was a pressing reason for being in the back of the taxi. Meeting you mate on a park bench would just have been unnecessary risk, even if it was a lower one. The higher risk doesn't do anything to negate the lower one. If anything it makes it a multiplier. Now I've got covid from being in the taxi because the person before met their mate in the park and caught it off them, and now I'm going to give it to my mate in the park. Cutting out the unnecessary transmission is what got the R number <1 because it made the remaining necessary interactions safer.
c.f. If I drive to a trail center the risky part of the day is doing a lap of the trail. It doesn't somehow make me less likely to crash on the way home though.
You could share a taxi with a stranger with masks on and breath in each others air but couldn’t sit with a friend on a park bench.
Yeah, that's horseshit for the very reasons above.
It's OK. I've got you categorised now. Don't let me detain you any further. You won't be getting any further interaction from me on this thread if I can remember to enforce my 'do not interact' rule. In some ways a block user function would be handy here.
Plenty of people around here were travelling in taxis with nothing but a cursory barrier that was going to stop nothing? After a very few minutes you were getting a lung full of whatever the driver had.
There was never any evidence of outdoor transmission. Being outside should have been THE way to let life carry on as normally as possible.
Unmilited exercise should always have been allowed- people should have been encouraged to get as aerobically fit as possible!
Mask on to walk to your table, mask off to eat. I mean what a shower.
And that’s not even to speak to the matter of personal choice. I mean, obviously we had to make sure nurses had enough tic-tok time for propaganda purposes so I understand a bit of caution about overwhelming the NHS…
Anyone that supported a policy that let people miss their loved ones funerals deserves a special place in hell.
I managed to break both my legs early on so was in hospital as wards were being converted to Covid wards etc and quite frankly, most of the chatter from the doctors and nurses in there was about the lunacy of it all.
In hindsight- they were proved correct.
We should have gone full Sweden and let the bodies pile high (oh wait, I mean not had any worse an issue than anyone else).
I suppose you’re going to tell me that the changes to how ‘excess deaths’ have been counted since the Psy-op is just some logical statistical necessity lol
Love the full ‘intruder alert’ meltdown lol
socialist ideas aiming to empower working people, reduce and mitigate the power of capital, eliminate poverty and deliver social justice
Oi! @dazh That’s just centre left isn’t it? Fabian even. Definitely not extreme lefty.
I do agree that what @crosshair (interesting choice of name) is so angry about sounds more like Trumpy rightwingers (DEI aside - which done properly is 95% just showing decent respect to others)
I do favour globalism - but simply because pragmatism tells me that when companies are bigger than countries and happily working cross border, them opposing globalism hurts people more than companies (see Brexit for a case study).
On an emotional level, countries are great for picking sports teams, and some sort of nostalgic often made up culture - but they aren’t good for much more these days.
Multi-national blocks just make more sense these days - and since we left the EU we’ve been scratting around trying to find a new one to join.
Oh my. That’s one away from me shouting “House!”
liberal elite
House.
Jonathan Pie pretty much nails it again
David Lammy 2019 :
Deluded, dishonest, xenophobic, narcissistic, Donald Trump is no friend of Britain. He is not fit to hold public office, let alone worthy of our country's highest honours and a banquet with the Queen. Theresa May is selling out the UK to a serial liar and a cheat.
https://twitter.com/DavidLammy/status/1120465288250712064
David Lammy 2024 :
Congratulations to @realDonaldTrump on your victory.The UK has no greater friend than the US, with the special relationship being cherished on both sides of the Atlantic for more than 80 years.
We look forward to working with you and @JDVance in the years ahead.
https://twitter.com/DavidLammy/status/1854077924686573734
I guess that the difference between now and 2019 is that now we have a Labour government so it is absolutely fine to work with the "deluded, dishonest, xenophobic, narcissistic, serial liar and cheat"
The current Labour government really strives to reach new levels of hypocrisy. Any reasonable person might have hoped that Donald Trump's election as US president would have jolted a "centre-left" Labour UK government to re-evaluate its"Special Relationship" with the United States. Sadly that is probably an unrealistic hope.
Oi! @dazh That’s just centre left isn’t it? Fabian even. Definitely not extreme lefty.
No I was only using that description for 'lefty'. I have some other views that I didn't mention which apparently make me an extremist like abolishing national administrative borders and armies, replacing representative democracy with direct democracy and implementing an economic system which aims for 0% growth and zero net consumption of natural resources. Apparently they are a bit too radical for most people so I'll stick with the original description. 😉
The current Labour government really strives to reach new levels of hypocrisy.
If David Lammy had any self respect he'd have resigned this morning on the grounds that his job was untenable given his past comments but as we all know he's one of those politicians who will say whatever he thinks people want to hear. And we wonder why voters are tolerant of the lies and nonsense that comes out of the mouths of politicians?
it is absolutely fine to work with the “deluded, dishonest, xenophobic, narcissistic, serial liar and cheat”
Reality bites. Ministers work for us, they can’t choose to ignore the USA because a **** is in charge and they don’t like it. It smells like hypocrisy, because it is. They still need to get on with working for the UK, even when it makes them look two faced. Same goes for working with a number of European leaders… plenty of despicable politicans in positions of power right now, in countries the UK needs to work with.
Any reasonable person might have hoped that Donald Trump’s election as US president would have jolted a “centre-left” Labour UK government to re-evaluate its”Special Relationship” with the United States. Sadly that is probably an unrealistic hope.
I think when you said "reasonable", you meant to say "naive and deluded"
you meant to say “naive and deluded”
Nah, the naive and deluded are those believe in the "Special Relationship". It only exists in the minds of UK politicians, no US politician believes in it.
And it is this naivety and delusion which results in the Special Relationship being nothing more than a case of the US telling the UK what to do and the UK doing what it is told to do.
Now that's pretty "special".
Try selling that shit to the French, or any other country above the status of banana republic.
Plenty of people around here were travelling in taxis with nothing but a cursory barrier that was going to stop nothing? After a very few minutes you were getting a lung full of whatever the driver had.
No they weren't.
There was never any evidence of outdoor transmission. Being outside should have been THE way to let life carry on as normally as possible.
That's the thing about novel outbreaks - there's no evidence of anything to start off with.
Mask on to walk to your table, mask off to eat. I mean what a shower.
Bullshit.
And that’s not even to speak to the matter of personal choice. I mean, obviously we had to make sure nurses had enough tic-tok time for propaganda purposes so I understand a bit of caution about overwhelming the NHS…
Bullshit trope.
Anyone that supported a policy that let people miss their loved ones funerals deserves a special place in hell.
Bullshit.
I managed to break both my legs early on so was in hospital as wards were being converted to Covid wards etc...
Did that hurt?
...and quite frankly, most of the chatter from the doctors and nurses in there was about the lunacy of it all.
Bullshit.
<br style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-border-spacing-x: 0; --tw-border-spacing-y: 0; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246/0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000;" />In hindsight- they were proved correct.
Except you're making it up.
We should have gone full Sweden and let the bodies pile high (oh wait, I mean not had any worse an issue than anyone else).
Worst per capita death rate in the world for awhile, you'll be pleased to hear - not so good for all those funerals you were forced to miss.
I suppose you’re going to tell me that the changes to how ‘excess deaths’ have been counted since the Psy-op is just some logical statistical necessity lol
No change made.
The freedom with which this bad faith bullshit can be posted is why we have a racist rapist felon as president incoming.
All Hail Emperor Trump.
Should be interesting to see what old scores he settles and how quickly.
to believe we could just cut ourselves off
How does 're-evaluating our special relationship with the United States' translate into 'cut ourselves off' ??
I am talking about a more healthy relationship with the United States, along the lines that other countries have.
What is unreasonable about that? And not least when the US chooses a deluded, dishonest, xenophobic, narcissistic, serial liar and cheat as president?
All Hail Emperor Trump.
Should be interesting to see what old scores he settles and how quickly.
Getting the self-pardoning out the way should keep him occupied for about a year?
I have some other views that I didn’t mention which apparently make me an extremist like abolishing national administrative borders and armies, replacing representative democracy with direct democracy and implementing an economic system which aims for 0% growth and zero net consumption of natural resources.
Excellent. My greengrocer grandfather would have agreed with you.
I’ll stick borders and armies down as reasonable excellent aspirations (though I have no idea how to achieve them).
Not a fan of direct democracy to be honest - too easy for a populist to subvert (though representative democracy isn’t doing much better).
Zero (GDP?) growth and zero net consumption are going to be a struggle simply because it will probably fan the flames of the intergenerational problems we are already seeing.
Well here is an old score he might want to settle:
Trump campaign files complaint against 'far left' Labour Party's 'blatant foreign interference' in US election
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/donald-trump-labour-party-us-uk-politics-kamala-harris/
The question is can the UK's Foreign Secretary and PM grovel enough to be forgiven?