batfink - Member
I have been wondering why he's doing this (Trump). The only reason I can think of is that The Donald is trying to build a rationale for cutting US defense spending.
Whatever rationale there is President Trump has his own reasoning.
The narrative will be that the US is being RIPPED OFF into paying more, because those nasty Germans aren't paying their way. Donald has negotiated a NEW DEAL which saves Americans millions of dollars.Obviously that's totally nonsense - US military spending is completely independent of what anyone else (including the Germans) is doing. However - the hard-of-thinking will lap it up.
The narrative is simple just pay coz this is business as usual not charity nor some ideal view of the world. Pay up. Pay. Do business etc.
Hah, all this talk of the "2% commitment" but til now I just assumed that we were all supposed to be doing it already. Now I know that it's a pledge to "aim to move towards the 2% guideline within a decade with a view to meeting their NATO Capability Targets and filling NATO’s capability shortfalls." Since it's not 2024, nobody's failing to meet it, and though certainly some will, they won't be breaking a commitment either.
(that's not to say they shouldn't be doing more of course; different issue)
Aside; the only reason the UK met the 2% last year was by moving stuff from other budgets into defence- we're preserving our position with accounting not spending. This is always an issue, exactly what constitutes defence, and different countries have different definitions. For instance, I know a VA-sponsored student whose brewing course is officially defence spending.
And obviously it makes no comment on effectiveness of spending either- you could fritter it away on aircraft carriers with no planes, or vast ww2-era infantry forces with no transport, or porkbelly contracts designed to make defence companies rich, and say "well we spent 2%"
So I knew it was a shitty metric, but it's interesting to discover what the 2% actually is, and how false the dialogue is about ut.
And obviously it makes no comment on effectiveness of spending either- you could fritter it away on aircraft carriers with no planes, or vast ww2-era infantry forces with no transport, or porkbelly contracts designed to make defence companies rich, and say "well we spent 2%"So I knew it was a shitty metric, but it's interesting to discover what the 2% actually is, and how false the dialogue is about ut.
Or more simply put.
It's way more complicated than anyone thought (well the tweeting idiot though) everyone else knows how complex the issue is a small knows outcomes are a better measure than if Luxembourg has enough aircraft carriers.
The narrative is simple just pay coz this is business as usual not charity nor some ideal view of the world. Pay up. Pay. Do business etc.
Ok.... or just spout some random drivvel?
Why does he want them to pay? What difference does it make to him? The US spend on defence is VAST compared to every other country. If Germany spends a bit more on defence, what difference does it make to Donald?
Why pick a fight on this at all?
It only makes sense if Donald is looking to reduce US defence spending.
It only makes sense if Donald is looking to reduce US defence spending.
Which also doesn't align with his budget does it. Massive cuts to arts, science etc and massive boost to military spending.
Makes more sense if we was trying to find a way to reduce the potential of US confrontation with Russia and having to have any involvement with the goings on in the Ukraine, balkans and other parts of the world. Also I'm sure Vladimir would like a lot less us military presence near his borders.
Of course nobody's suggesting that Vladimir is influencing us policy...
Which also doesn't align with his budget does it
Agreed - it doesn't make sense. And I agree that another possible explanation is that the objective is to weaken Nato - but to what ends? So that Russia can continue their expansionism unopposed? Seems like that happening anyway - Obama didn't intervene in Crimea (or Georgia) and he didn't need to p*ss-off the Germans in doing so.
I suppose he could be doing it so he has a reason to oppose further NATO expansion - but again, it seems like there are hundreds of ways of doing that, which would be more effective.
Of course it's possible that he just saw something on Fox about countries not yet spending 2% on Nato, and now he's got a bug up his ar*e about it. It's also possible that his issues with women prevent him from being able to have a professional relationship with Merkel, and so he's chosen to define their relationship on this one issue (in which he feels comfortable).
or, he could just be a petulant man-child, with no idea what he's doing.
The latter sounds reasonable to me. On a few things it seems when bannon isn't operating the puppet it doesn't behave well and is prone to straying off message.
My other thoughts on the spat with Nato was its part of the America needs to come first stuff, it's no real policy objective but plays to the groups who think the US looks overseas too much (however they probably also like being top dog where the military is measured)
we and the US have been shelling out while they have freeloaded off the rest of us,
Perhaps, to paraphrase the orange one "that makes the Germans smart" 😆
Oh, and name those two countries which are 1. claiming other countries should buy more weapons, and 2. are making them?
Obviously that's totally nonsense - US military spending is completely independent of what anyone else (including the Germans) is doing. However - [b]the hard-of-thinking will lap it up[/b].
And right on cue:
chewkw - Member
if Luxembourg has enough aircraft carriers.
I can confirm that we have exactly enough. Zero. AWACS though, I think we have too many. Nato is sponging off us.
It's also possible that his issues with women prevent him from being able to have a professional relationship with Merkel,
Speaking of which...
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/donald-trump-angela-merkel-megyn-kelly-hillary-clinton-a7638176.html ]Mummy.[/url]
How low can he go?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-gallup-poll-new-record-low-approval-ratings-russia-healthcare-wiretapping-twitter-a7638601.html
Reckon 20s are possible? A lot of tweets coming back about Obama and golf days and low approval ratings.
In a week where people will learn how little health care they have left get an answer on the made up wire taps and much more I think he has a solid 29 in him...
Incredulous isn't it, that over a third of American voters approve of the way Donald Trump is acting as US president.
It makes you wonder what he actually has to do to lose their confidence.
I think this one might answer it...
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/19/opinions/trump-taxpayer-injustice-opinion-obeidallah/
Cut meals on wheels - used by lots of vets...
At least with the protected rights to bear arms and form a militia he could actually end his days looking at a basket.
mikewsmith - MemberIt's way more complicated than anyone thought (well the tweeting idiot though) everyone else knows how complex the issue is
To be fair he's not the first US president to obsess over the 2%- Obama did the same, though not so crassly or ill-informedly.
Of course it's possible that he just saw something on Fox about countries not yet spending 2% on Nato, and now he's got a bug up his ar*e about it.
Trump has been talking about the US footing the defence bill on behalf of other countries for decades:
[img] 
[/img]
Indeed, the whole issue was core to his election campaign:
Though you maybe didn't hear much of this if you just relied on the Guardian and Buzzfeed for your understanding of US politics
He also said the US was going to do less foreign meddling, surely he can't up the defense budget, ask countries to pay more while promising to do less. That wouldn't? make any sense, anyway off to play some golf you can sort this out for me.
Trump has been talking about the US footing the defence bill on behalf of other countries for decades
Getting someone else to pay for something you benefit from is Trump's business model, you would have thought he'd be impressed with the German's savvy 😆
Though you maybe didn't hear much of this if you just relied on the Guardian and Buzzfeed for your understanding of US politics
He also told everyone to buy American and put first and to buy American to support American industry. Which is why his daughter landed 50t of imported goods during his inaguration speach
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/ivanka-trump-china-clothing-import-donald-father-buy-american-a7626471.html
It's good that he talks a lot but most of it will come back and bite him.
How many times has he played golf this year and how many times did he tweet complaining about Obama playing golf?
Then there is the bill for going south that would have funded programmes he wants to cut...
I'm not surprised that Saudi wouldn't lend their minesweepers for use in the "Persian Gulf". They don't accept that term - it's the "Arabian Gulf" to them. Little things like that demonstrate his lack of understanding of diplomacy.
Trump has been talking about the US footing the defence bill on behalf of other countries for decades:
So he's been wrong for decades, and it's not just a recent thing. Phew!!
I thought this might amuse both sides in the #fakenews world:
[img] 
[/img]
oh and John Oliver is back...
"Trump is the stopped clock of arseholes"
Trumps presidency is going far better than I could have hoped, with every tweet, every meeting (or non-meeting) with a world leader and every passing week he reduces American political influence and destroys the credibility of the right wing agenda the US pushes onto the world.
As a bonus he is also destroying the myth that success is built on hard work and intelligence, never has there been a clearer example that privilege and luck are the real platforms for success.
He will be the greatest diving force for socialist principles since the second world war. As long as the world manages to survive the next 4 years, the world will be much better off in 20-30 years time, just not in the way his fan boys think it will.
He will be the greatest diving force for socialist principles since the second world war. As long as the world manages to survive the next 4 years, the world will be much better off in 20-30 years time, just not in the way his fan boys think it will.
Down side is most of the American left are not really socialist and as I've said before left is a coalition of diverse people, some of whom are intolerant and backward thinking on a lot of things and have no regard for the environment.
I'd predict a reaction but no real guarantee of a good one
He will be the greatest diving force
Very good
Down side is
Gets better.
In America Liberal is a dirty word, don't even suggest Socialism. Goddamn commie reds.
slowoldman - MemberIn America Liberal is a dirty word, don't even suggest Socialism. Goddamn commie reds.
Amazing that this still has traction, surely the last election blew it all out of the water?
The ones who loose are stuck doing left and right, you have business liberals supporting free markets and equality then you have protectionist union types opposing equality and diversity. It's a mix people need to get hold of or the centre ground as most call it
DrJ - MemberObviously that's totally nonsense - US military spending is completely independent of what anyone else (including the Germans) is doing. However - the hard-of-thinking will lap it up.
And right on cue:
The cue is this Nato alliances have no negotiation power if America were to say pay up. Nothing, nil, zil. They simply have no power to negotiate whatsoever because they rely heavily on USA.
How many aircraft carriers do the alliances have combined?
Just this point along will be enough to hammer the alliances to pay up. 😆
Note to mods, can we remove emoticons I'm getting a headache.
Anyone checked Trump's approval rating recently, did someone say worst ever. Guess he must be doing something right then.......
Down side is most of the American left are not really socialist
In America Liberal is a dirty word
America isn't the world, nor are they the leaders of the free world or the worlds policeman. Trump is exposing the truth of their ignorant self interest.
DrJ - MemberObviously that's totally nonsense - US military spending is completely independent of what anyone else (including the Germans) is doing. However - the hard-of-thinking will lap it up.
And right on cue:
The cue is
..just in case you didn't get it first time round
I know we have Andrea Leadsome but there are some american congressmen that are barely capable of strigning a coherent sentence together, maybe Trum isnt so unusual!
He just can't help himself
So no wiretapping from anyone and the FBI are investigating Trump's Russia links. I'm waiting for the distraction tweet and press confere....... squirrel!
Spicer saying no evidence of collusion...which is not what's happened.
Trump saying NSA and FBI said Russia didn't influenc election...which isn't what was said.
Ha
Trump is live tweeting thru the hearing
They stop to correct something he tweeted an hour ago.
Hilarious that he's caught out lying in real time
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/843892050424676356
Utterly bizarre
Well a quick morning catch-up reveals it goes exactly as expected. Cornered and under pressure it's time to keep play the innocent victim. Shame most people are not listening, and shame the investigation may take a long time, plenty of time for people to decide of they need to look for another job.
That twitter video is quite interesting. I wonder if we'll see more live bullshit detection aimed at Trumps Tweeting
That twitter video is great! There needs to be more of that. It's outrageous and incredibly damaging how Trump has been able to lie with impunity
Awesome.....
Question is, was that a deliberate, bare-faced lie from the Donald (perhaps his most blatant yet)? Or was he not really paying attention and misunderstood what was being said, before deciding to tweet about it to the whole world?
So either a liar or an idiot - or maybe both?
Just in case you were concerned that nothing made has happened today: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39335887
She's got have somewhere suitable to sell her foreign made clothes.
