If Trump can pull off a similar relationship with Russia that Reagan/Thatcher/Gorbachev managed then well done him (though it was mainly down to Gorbachev's desire for change - I don't see Putin having the same attitude).
chewkw - Member
The reason is simple because the opponents simply cannot accept the fact that there will be peace established between USA & Russia, especially from someone who "grabs" others' body part. They really cannot imagine that.
Peace <> doing as uncle Vlad tells you because if you don't he will (allegedly) tell everyone what naughty things you've been up to and sabotage all you and your mates' financial deals in Russia.
And chewy is back in the room
If everyone could just ignore the troll they would go away
colournoise - Member
Peace <> doing as uncle Vlad tells you because if you don't he will (allegedly) tell everyone what naughty things you've been up to and sabotage all you and your mates' financial deals in Russia.
1. President Trump 71 year old. Accused past is the last thing on earth that worries him. i.e. things like financial dealings with whoever, grabbing body parts etc ... nobody give jack shite about that coz people will still vote for him.
However, not doing the right thing for the people will definitely keep him awake.
2. He won the election with the support from "rednecks". Do you think these people give a flying zebra about US and Russia relationship getting better?
3. People want change so voted previous "US regime" out regardless.
4. Accused cyber hacking etc swayed jack shite about people voting for President Trump. (oh ya, this cyber hacking etc happens all the time what's the big deal?)
Now apply all the above to your rationale that Russia has managed to grab hold of President Trump body parts then see if something happens.
(AAARRRGGHH!!! can't resist).
Wasn't saying that anything will happen because of whatever Trumpie's relationship with Vlad is or isn't.
Just pointing out that IMO any imbalance is not a great foundation for a relationship or for peace...
And, you REALLY think Uncle Donald actually cares about doing the right thing for 'the people'? I've seen precious little evidence of that so far.
[quote=chewkw ]However, not doing the right thing for the people will definitely keep him awake.
😆
#trumpcares
colournoise - Member
Just pointing out that IMO any imbalance is not a great foundation for a relationship or for peace...
I am sure they are balanced. Really, they are. These two are just posturing so will not go head to head and they know that.
Crikey, do you think he has JK Rowling's magic wand that can do instant transformation? How long has he been in office? Also everywhere he goes the opponents are blocking him by lying down in front of him so not making his life easy innit. Why not get out of the way and let the President does his job then you decide?And, you REALLY think Uncle Donald actually cares about doing the right thing for 'the people'? I've seen precious little evidence of that so far.
Yes, he cares for those who have voted for him. I am sure that's the right thing to do, hence he cares. 😛aracer - Member
chewkw » However, not doing the right thing for the people will definitely keep him awake.😆
#trumpcares
You're an apparently rational man - you talk a lot of sense on some other threads (and I enjoyed your moon landings joke up there - it was a joke wasn't it?) So you can surely see through the BS to what the man really is doing. Can you rationally explain why you are still a supporter?
He upsets people who I like to see upset?
No, in all seriousness, there is a level of truth in this, if Donald is upsetting and frightening people who have held the reins of power for decades, then he must be doing something right - like it or not the status quo hasn't been good for a lot of people, their jobs have been offshored to the lowest cost provider with the lowest workers rights and environmental concerns (something I would suggest was never really the point of free trade) - forcing those suppliers back onshore can only be a good thing for the long term sustainability of the US economy.
Regards Muslim ban etc- like it or not, Wahhabist Islam, as a religion, has some truly horrible aspects within its community and implementation that are incompatible with western liberal society (attitudes on women and homosexuality for example) have led to global insecurity, its right that those home nations do everything in their power to combat it and work with other nations to do so - to put their own house in order and to take refugees themselves as well. Just as we would be doing if it was the scientologists blowing people up for insulting Joshua Smith. My opinion is that Trump is trying to pressure them into making those changes, and that isn't a bad thing.
(bonus points if as somebody who appears to be quite into the outdoors you can explain why his wholesale dismantling of the EPA and environmental regulation is a good thing)
I think this is mixed, there are concerns, rightly or wrongly, that much of their work had taken on a political and evangelical rather than truly scientific and environmental aspect. See the recent NOAA whistleblower stuff as an example. If the intent is deconstruct and rebuild, and to make them concentrate science and regulatory work rather than as a political lobbyist, this might not be a bad thing. Of course if the goal was, in the alternative, merely to reduce/weaken regulation, then it's different.
Edit: to add, if nobody can see that the whole Russia thing isn't classic 'post collapse of GWOT, new Cold War pork barrel politics' then they must be daft.
There's a lot of misunderstanding of what Putin actually wants.
Nobody seems to understand that he (and some of his key advisers who have actually gone into print on this) want instability elsewhere. That way Putin doesn't really have to have policies (or certainly doesn't have to have them 'approved' by the populace). Simply asserting himself as a constant, a safe option in a world convulsed by apparent chaos is then enough to ensure his position.
That is why Putin will have helped the likes of Trump to win an election, then threaten to release evidence of this and other stuff to discredit him. It all adds to the impression he is trying to create amongst his own populace that it is a dangerous world 'out there' and you're better off with Uncle Vladimir in charge.
Putin does not want anything other than to preserve his position and security, don't think of this as akin to past alliances and pacts, this is not about anything of the sort.
chewkw - Member
Crikey, do you think he has JK Rowling's magic wand that can do instant transformation? How long has he been in office? Also everywhere he goes the opponents are blocking him by lying down in front of him so not making his life easy innit. Why not get out of the way and let the President does his job then you decide?
Admittedly, I'm not monitoring the US media 24/7 but I'm not sure anything that's come out of the Whitehouse since January (Executive Order or not) has been focussed on making things better for 'the people' on a day to day basis. Any potentially positive effects just feel like collateral damage at the moment.
Possibly against my personal judgement, I'm willing to give the new administration the benefit of the doubt to a certain extent but that gets harder and harder with each new 'revelation' - even given the that the mainstream media is obviously so biased and basically just spewing anti-Trump propaganda...
(I don't really like using emoticons).
ninfan - there should be a Like button for your post.
Not that I agree with much/any of it but it's the most sensible and thought-out response I've seen from you on this thread. If only the debate could be kept at that level, rather than the [i]"LOLZ at the Lefties"[/i] thing, I might do more than occasionally drop in 😆
Scotroutes - thing is, I'm all up for serious debate, but you can't do that with people who have histrionically convinced themselves that Trump is literally firing up the crematoria.
The key thing is Trump is not rational. He is incapable of rational thought because of his obvious personality disorder and you need to view his actions in this light
He is incapable of rational thought because of his obvious personality disorder
See what I mean?
[quote=ninfan ]Scotroutes - thing is, I'm all up for serious debate, but you can't do that with people who have histrionically convinced themselves that Trump is literally firing up the crematoria.
Also true - it's not all one-sided.
[quote=scotroutes ]ninfan - there should be a Like button for your post.
+1 - I disagree with most of it, but glad I asked the question as it's something worth discussing rather than the usual playground level taunting.
[quote=ninfan ]if Donald is upsetting and frightening people who have held the reins of power for decades, then he must be doing something right - like it or not the status quo hasn't been good for a lot of people, their jobs have been offshored to the lowest cost provider with the lowest workers rights and environmental concerns (something I would suggest was never really the point of free trade) - forcing those suppliers back onshore can only be a good thing for the long term sustainability of the US economy.
I think that's similar to the reason a lot of people voted for him - a protest vote against the establishment if you like. The important question though is whether he's actually going to achieve any of that, and what harm he is going to do in the process. Or is he just filling the swamp with even bigger monsters. I don't believe he actually has the interests of those people in mind, he's only interested in them voting for him.
Regards Muslim ban etc- like it or not, Wahhabist Islam, as a religion, has some truly horrible aspects within its community and implementation that are incompatible with western liberal society (attitudes on women and homosexuality for example)
Which is again a fair point. However it has little to do with the ban which is knee jerk politics at its worst. The ban makes no difference at all to such societies, and the claim has never been made that it will - the claim is that it will make the US safer by preventing "bad people" coming in. As has been pointed out numerous times if you really wanted to achieve that then you'd ban people coming from countries which have supplied terrorists to the USA, like Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Hence in reality it is just pandering to prejudices.
If the intent is deconstruct and rebuild, and to make them concentrate science and regulatory work rather than as a political lobbyist, this might not be a bad thing. Of course if the goal was, in the alternative, merely to reduce/weaken regulation, then it's different.
😆 - what do you reckon the aim is based on the evidence so far? Is it likely to be more science based with Pruitt in charge?
See the recent NOAA whistleblower stuff as an example.
[url= https://arstechnica.co.uk/science/2017/02/article-names-whistleblower-who-told-congress-that-noaa-manipulated-data/ ]what this one ? [/url]
The important question though is whether he's actually going to achieve any of that, and what harm he is going to do in the process. Or is he just filling the swamp with even bigger monsters. I don't believe he actually has the interests of those people in mind, he's only interested in them voting for him.
The cynic would say that you could judge much of that by how loud they squal, and how hard they are fighting against him. Look at JFK 😉
As for Trumps actions, it's tough, because he really was saying much of this stuff years and years ago, long before there was any voters interested:
In fact, the consistency in what he's been saying is pretty remarkable
what do you reckon the aim is based on the evidence so far? Is it likely to be more science based with Pruitt in charge?
Or Happer as science advisor, or Perry as energy secretary? Again we are left wondering how a reasonable person could support Trump?
Not necessarily as - forgive the goodwin- but I assume this was said about hitler what really matter sis what he is trying to do once he has "shaken them up" that is clearly to make them more like Putins russia - in terms of his power - and less rational - as indicated by his appointments to key areas like the "global warming cult" arguments. I am not sure moving to a more autocratic less fact based approach is something anyone should really want.if Donald is upsetting and frightening people who have held the reins of power for decades, then he must be doing something right
This is true and were the US actually trying to dos something he might even get some broad appeal as no one is supportive of this type of islam. However one would assume that the first response would be to deal with Saudi- it is the state religion after all - where this all started/centres/revolves rather than target other countries in order to look tough and appeal to the redknecks.Regards Muslim ban etc- like it or not, Wahhabist Islam, as a religion, has some truly horrible aspects within its community and implementation that are incompatible with western liberal society (attitudes on women and homosexuality for example)
This will neither make america nor the world safer.
IMHO this has been done as it has to be a success politically as whilst immoral is astute in political terms.
1. No attacks - see it worked
2. Attacks - see i told you we needed to do it those liberals tried to stop me making america safe etc - all despots need a reason to remove civil liberties/erode congress or the power of judges.
IMHO the reason is more likely for the later
Trump is not the bogeyman but he is an irrational anti science populist ego maniac with poor sexual morality and a poor moral code. I see no reason to like that even if he was left wing and I would like to think was he a firebrand lefty with links to russian hacking to get in power i would be equally appalled even though I might appreciate his aims more.
https://www.ft.com/content/d9d6f33a-e6c5-11e6-967b-c88452263daf
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/04/saudi-arabia-ground-troops-syria-fight-isis
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/donald-trump-saudi-arabia-king-salman-abdulaziz-al-saud-agree-safe-zones-syria-yemen-a7553341.html
coincidence?
Ninfan - he obviously has a personality disorder tho and its so obvious multiple US psychiatrists have gone on record stating this as its so concerning to them.
Once you understand this its much easier to understand his actions. Personality disorders are common especially in politics and at the top levels of business.
He is an absolutely classic case
I can't think of a better person to make me happy by pissing people I don't like off (best reason ever for supporting this muppet). At least he's doing his bit for US safety by letting everyone have access to a gun.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38986147 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38986147[/url]
At least no one is hurt... Yet! 🙄
I said a few pages ago the NRA must be loving having their best mate in office. Now it is bearing fruit:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38986147
People with mental illnesses buying guns: What could go wrong?
Watching Chanel 4 news, what's striking about Trumps 'team' is that the (melted Stepford) women, with their fixed rictus grins, are even more terrifyingly unhinged than the blokes 😯
If he is doing everything he said he would do during the campaign when is he going to release his taxes?
If he is doing everything he said he would do during the campaign when is he going to release his taxes?
He won't because we'll find out that he's not actually that wealthy.
A fair few would argue you are based on how you used to be on here 😉he obviously has a personality disorder tho
Ouch
Worth reading what the man who, literally, wrote the book says:
“Call him a liar, call him evil, call him a threat to democracy, call him impulsive, call him ignorant — these labels are all absolutely true — but saying he has a mental disorder doesn’t really add force to the argument,” Frances says.
Basically he says it has not all come crashing down yet so until it does he is not mentally ill and only when he has seen him face to face
Its basically a defence of the goldwater rule- not an unreasonable position
this seemed pretty fair tbh
I called Joshua Miller, a psychologist who directs the University of Georgia’s clinical training program and studies the differences between personality and disorder, for a third perspective. He says that in many cases, it can be hard to tell where personality ends and illness begins.
That’s because these days most mental illnesses exist on a spectrum. “Even disorders we thought ... you either had it or not — categorical things like schizophrenia — we now know are much more like spectrum disorders,” he says. “You can have some schizophrenic traits, but not all.” And that’s especially true of personality disorders, which he says are all just extreme manifestations of otherwise “normal” personality traits.
The question What is a mental disorder? he says is “probably one of the most intractable debates that exists. And it’s playing out with Trump now.”
We can probably all agree Trump is it at the extreme * end of many traits hence the debate
* Literally at the furthest extent/far degree not as in his policies being extreme right wing etc.
He has a great idea that is going to resolve the Israel/Palestine shite.
After lunch he'll probably do Syria, I guess.
Nothing wrong with him, no siree!
#trumpcares
#altfact
Alternative fact = inflate cave tart.
ninfan - MemberOuch
I don't understand what the "ouch" is for. The man makes some very valid points :
[i]Psychologists don’t have such a rule, and Frances — who supports the Goldwater Rule and generally thinks mental illnesses are overdiagnosed — worries that when the petitioners and others call Trump mentally ill, they stigmatize people with psychological problems. They can also distract from the more objective criticisms you can make of his presidency. “Call him a liar, call him evil, call him a threat to democracy, call him impulsive, call him ignorant — these labels are all absolutely true — but saying he has a mental disorder doesn’t really add force to the argument,” Frances says.[/i]
What's wrong with that? Most people would agree that Adolf Hitler probably had some fairly serious mental health issues, but should we focus Hitler's mental health or other issues such as his policy of gassing Jews?
I think we know the answer to that question.
Although obviously many people on the far right would dispute the claim that Adolf Hitler had any mental health issues, or even that he was responsible for gassing Jews. Some of them are likely to be Trump supporters btw, but you know that.
Well a quick mornming look at the twitter feeds, we finally seem to have apolicy of jobs
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/schedule/register/melbourne-fl-2017/
Yep thats right he is going to hold a rally, sounds very practical. I assume shouting and hollering are obligatory and everyone will get a free job at the end?
also from Twitter
Donald J. Trump ?@realDonaldTrump 11h11 hours ago
More
The fake news media is going crazy with their conspiracy theories and blind hatred. @MSNBC & @CNN are unwatchable. @foxandfriends is great!
What's that if you agree with the President you are great, as always Murdoch knows which bum hole (get somebody else) to crawl up, and then back to bashing the messenger for daring to leak that he knew all about his Man chatting away to the Russians when he shouldn't have been and all the time doing nothing about it despite being warned he was a serious security risk. Oh no it's the nasty media and intellegance people at fault again...
I guess when the truth is embarressing and political poison it's best to try for a diversion.
Regards Muslim ban etc- like it or not, Wahhabist Islam, as a religion, has some truly horrible aspects
Indeed, makes one wonder why the ban effects countries that are not deobandhi in their outlook. Especially Iran which isn't even Sunni!!
personality disorder is not a mental illness! Its a developmental abnormality ie a wiring fault. Or you can call it a mental disorder but it is not an illness. You are born with it and you die with it and it cannot be treated or changed
Half a dozen prominent psychiatrists have said this publicly and its absolutely obvious he has one.
Junkyard - I may have autistic traits which is another developmental abnormality but no way do I have a personality disorder
Perhaps he could see the stats and work out what's really killing Americans
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/
1,942 Dead in 47 Days
religious leaders uniting against him as well
"As Christian pastors and leaders, we are deeply concerned by the recently announced moratorium on refugee resettlement," the evangelicals' advertisement says. "As Christians, we have a historic call expressed over two thousand years, to serve the suffering. We cannot abandon this call now."
This in a full page advert in the press
personality disorder is not a mental illness! Its a developmental abnormality ie a wiring fault. Or you can call it a mental disorder but it is not an illness. You are born with it and you die with it and it cannot be treated or changed
Bollocks. People with BPD have good remission rates with treatment and it most certainly can be acquired, environmental causes are known to be a major factor and there are links with PTSD.
You're a good case for EBM being forcibly burned into the brains of medical staff...
Personality Disorder ? It's important to remember he was elected as he is more credible than Hilary
Perhaps we should all collectively pray for him and his disorder. We could all meet outside the US Enbassy and send the positive power of prayer to this poor man in his, and our, time of need
Personality Disorder ? It's important to remember he was elected as he is more credible than Hilary
unfortunately that is a low bar as a test, and may in time prove to have put the wrong person there, having said that both candidates were probably the wrong person
It's important to remember he was elected as he is more credible than Hilary
That is really nothing to shout about. I think Hannibal Lector would have been more credible than Hilary. Having said that, you need to remember that more people voted for Hilary than for Chump.
