Kids can be anywhere. Do I not walk my dogs anywhere where children might play? Like parks, in the woods, on the beach?
And that's why there are bans on taking dogs on the beach during summer months around here. Widely flouted, and with petitions in some cafes to overturn the ban.
And I genuinely rode home from a ride in our local woods last night and found dog poo on my gloves. Plenty of responsible dog owners don't pick up crap when they don't see the dog taking a dump.
Size is irrelevant.
Rats. leptospirosis.
Birds. Histothingumy.
Shared use is shared use. The logic that dogs shouldn't be anywhere that children MIGHT be would also imply that cyclists should never cycle more than average walking pace on a shared use path and cars should have a chappy out front waving a red flag.
Doggo isn't allowed in no dog areas. She isn't allowed to shit on playing fields but she is allowed to run about on them. She is allowed to say hello to people if they ask or make it quite clear they want to say hi. Including (often) supervised kids (ie i can see the parents can see their kid and know what they are doing.
Obviously there a big dose of variance based on the actual situation. A park crammed with people for eg she isn't going to be off lead because sandwiches will get eaten.
Sharing is sharing, being considerate of situations is a far broader issue than just dog walkers.
I'm not particularly interested in the opinions of people who quite clearly have a chip on their shoulder and think the world should evolve around their opinions. So like John I will continue to give a shit about the real world practicalities of everything I do.
To echo what I said about the variety of personalities of "dog owners", there are also some "non dog owners" who are massive bellends.
Oh yes.
Storm drains.
Its largely been covered already.
But the only places a dog shit should end up is a bin. "Storm drains" could be anything often just a pipe a couple of meters long discharging into a ditch. in theory it could go in a foul or combined sewer without any problem but guaranteeing that short of flushing it down a toilet (which even then isn't guaranteed but there are bigger issues in that situation) is unlikely to be practical so bag and bin.
please can you confirm which other carnivorous animals, of similar size and numbers to dogs, can be found shitting in public in built up densely populated parts of the UK
Cats. Foxes.
I'm not particularly interested in the opinions of people who quite clearly have a chip on their shoulder and think the world should evolve around their opinions.
Plenty of us have owned dogs, and our opinions are based on that.
Yes and your opinion is precisely that. Yours. I also think its bizarrely unreasonable. Maybe you were an inconsiderate dog walker which has formed your opinions.
So like i say, not particularly interested. You're welcome to disagree with me.
And that's why there are bans on taking dogs on the beach during summer months around here.
And if there is a ban on dogs on a particular beach (or part of a beach), then our dogs don't get to go there. It really is that simple.
FWIW I have a lot of sympathy for TJ and DrJ's position. If you want to own a dug you should probably work out where its going to shite before hand. If that needs to be some communal grassy area where people like to sit, small kids like to play etc, then maybe you don't have suitable domestic arrangments for owning a dog. If you own one already, its probably sensible to understand if you are upsetting a sizeable minority of people by doing something you consider reasonable, just as its wise to know if riding cheeky trails is offending people, wild camping is aggravating land owners, your teenager is intimidating people by hanging out in bus stops, or your massive eMTB is viewed by some as not really in the spirit of the access rules. You can choose to be defensive, you can try to twist arguments to "win" but ultimately your dug/tent/teen/bike is still pissing people off.
However I'm also a realist and I wouldn't expect any of the pics the @greatbeardedone posted to be dog free, and if not dog free I wouldn't be surprised if there was dog shit either intentionally left or in trace quantities. There was a lot more dug shit around in Glasgow parks in the 80s, we didn't tend to drink coffee from greggs back then but people did survive the experience: it wasn't necessarily pleasant but of all the problems faced by a Glasgow dweller I'm not sure the remnants of a responsibly collected poo are high up the list.
Should the council spend my tax payers money to make shitting zones for dogs? No thanks - the worst offenders would still not use them.
FWIW I'm even less enthused about people who keep roaming cats as pets.
Cats. Foxes.
Quite clearly neither of them actually fit the specified criteria.
Yes and your opinion is precisely that. Yours. I also think its bizarrely unreasonable. Maybe you were an inconsiderate dog walker which has formed your opinions.
So like i say, not particularly interested. You're welcome to disagree with me.
a large part of this so clearly demonstrated is that what dog owners think is reasonable is a very different thing from what non dog owners think is reasonable.
I think your view that letting your dog shit in public areas is Ok is in fact wholly unreasonable
Whilst the level of responsibility varies amongst dog owners, the level of entitlement seems quite constant.
Dog owner here.
A children's play area is not suitable as a dog toilet. Even with the best will in the world, it is not always possible to pick up the entire poo as our back garden will attest.
A children's play area is not suitable as a dog toilet.
I am sure we are all agreed on that – I haven't seen a post that suggests otherwise.
Dog owner here.
A children's play area is not suitable as a dog toilet. Even with the best will in the world, it is not always possible to pick up the entire poo as our back garden will attest.
Josh will be along in a sec to tell you that you must be an antisocial dog owner then! 😀
Ha.
Not sure where i have suggested that. I totally agree its not possible to guarantee? I don't think anyone has suggested that it is.
Which is why i explained the proportionate approach. Rather than don't take your dog where other people might be.
It's really not that hard to not be a dick. Without needing some bizarre set of rules.
Which is why i explained the proportionate approach. Rather than don't take your dog where other people might be.
But what you think of as proportionate some of us do not. Just a little bit of shit is OK?
And I genuinely rode home from a ride in our local woods last night and found dog poo on my gloves. Plenty of responsible dog owners don't pick up crap when they don't see the dog taking a dump.
Might not be dog, bears are also known to ……. 🙂
I too would like to know what the exact child usage voumes of a space need to be before I need to stop walking my dog there 😂
Ha.
Not sure where i have suggested that.
Me : Plenty of us have owned dogs, and our opinions are based on that.
You: Yes and your opinion is precisely that. Yours. I also think its bizarrely unreasonable. Maybe you were an inconsiderate dog walker which has formed your opinions.
Sorry, inconsiderate not antisocial! 😀
As a dog owner, it doesn't piss me off any less than anyone else, believe me!
My dog poops in my garden 99% of the time as he's quite regular, I can tell if he's got a 'bun in the oven' so to speak..
But there are occasions when you gotta go you gotta go.
Some of the states of the turds I see laying around and sometimes stand in... Makes me wonder what the owners are feeding them...
I mean no poo is nice, especially if you step in it but I think the kind of person who doesn't clean up after thier dog is probably the same kind of person who buys the cheapest dog food, too.
Just like humans, if you have a weekend bender on curry and real ale you poop is going to be eleveted to new heights of grossness...
Where as if I eat properly my poop is of a much better quality in terms of stench and constitution.
Which is why i explained the proportionate approach. Rather than don't take your dog where other people might be.
But what you think of as proportionate some of us do not. Just a little bit of shit is OK?
I'm not going to engage with you TJ. i respect you, i think you are generally on the absolute correct side on most subjects, i just do not agree with your black and white response to situations and i do not think that getting into a bickering contest will do us any favour. I understand what you are trying to say and I disagree with a tiny bit on just how simplistic it is.
Same for you IdleJohn. That wasn't supposed to be an accusation that you were an antisocial dog walker, it was supposed to be a tongue in cheek reference to how your experience as a dog owner has made you take such a blanket view. Appreciate it maybe didn't come across as that without a well placed emoji.
I am comfortable that there will be no negative impact of my dog ownership on small or large humans in a space that they would consider suitable for playing on. I take it seriously. Some people don't i know that.
Same for you IdleJohn. That wasn't supposed to be an accusation that you were an antisocial dog walker, it was supposed to be a tongue in cheek reference to how your experience as a dog owner has made you take such a blanket view. Appreciate it maybe didn't come across as that without a well placed emoji.
No problems. You didn't wound me that deeply, just enough to drive me to a bottle of wine and sad music this evening.
😀
If lots of kids play there it's not a suitable to place for your dog to crap, official or not. That would seem fairly straightforward to any non-dog owner or really anyone with half a brain.
If lots of dogs crap there it's not a suitable to place for your child to play, official or not. 😁
There's been lots of threads like this and they always go the same way. At one end you've got people who think their "fur babies" can do no wrong, at the other we have people who simply hate dogs. In between we have most people: responsible owners; the ones who love dogs but wouldn't have one because they don't want the responsibility; the ones who love dogs, don't want the responsibility but have one anyway; the thugs who see it as a status symbol (or worse); people who are dog-ambivalent; those who see one ill-behaved animal and tar them all with the same brush; folk who like other people's dogs; people who are scared of dogs; etc etc.
(It occurs to me that you could cross out "dog" and write "bicycle" in most of that sentence.)
I'm of the mind that people trump animals. I love dogs and will happily interact with them if they want to, but if they're covered in slutch and I'm walking to a job interview then "he's only being friendly!" doesn't cut it I'm afraid.
But the fact of the matter is that both dogs and children exist, and sometimes may have to coexist. So perhaps a bit of level-headedness and compromise is required from both sides? The OP's photos look to be mostly just some shared greenery. Why not have "dogs this end, kids that end"? (Or course, if you have both... 🤷♂️)
why bag the poo and then leave it on the ground or hang it from a tree.... why bother bagging it in the first place??? What is the mentality?
IME one of:
- I'll collect it on my way back,
- I'll tell someone I'll collect it on my way back, if I get caught,
- A genuine belief that the council employs someone to collect them.
Also,
+1 everything JoshVegas said on Page 1 about shared spaces.
FWIW I'm even less enthused about people who keep roaming cats as pets.
We have three cats.
The old girl is allowed out in our enclosed back yard under supervision, and is taken straight back inside if she shows any signs of being about to attempt a Paul Newman.
The other two will be 4.5 years old now (both from the same litter) and up until this summer have never been outside. When we left the door open (despite my protestations) the bolder of the two made it to where we were sitting and flopped into the floor at our feet; her sister never crossed the threshold at all. So for any practical purposes they're all indoor cats.
Dogs have been domesticated for considerably longer than cats (look it up, I was astonished). As a result dogs are (generally) easier to train/control than cats, but also are more dependent on us. Whereas domesticated cats are still a bit wild. A mate of mine has a black lab which will toilet on command; good luck teaching a cat to do that.
I know of two cats trained to use the toilet to crap
That's the thing, cats aren't really one type of personality, and neither are dogs, they come in all different breeds and some behave very differently to others.
You can bet a pit bull isn't safe to leave around young children, as opposed to a golden retriver, for example.
Same with cats, some are just nasty ****ers, some are super affectionate...
In the meantime, can’t we have a national campaign to teach dogs to poop over the storm drain
Terrible idea. They'd then use that as an excuse to let their dogs shit everywhere, oh he missed the drain, there's nothing I can do about that. If common sense had prevailed there wouldn't have been a need for all the laws concerning dog ownership and anti social owners. A lot of the busier outdoor spots near me reek of dogshit on damp days, it's disgusting. Not to mention dog walkers letting their dogs shit in the street, even in peoples gardens if the gates aren't closed.
Whilst the level of responsibility varies amongst dog owners, the level of entitlement seems quite constant
Absolutely. I'd add angry and delusional verging on mental illness. Love the comparisons with wild animals. Like domesticated pets (often bought, sold and bred as part of a commercial enterprise) are part of a necessary ecosystem!
I find these type of complaints are like those mask wearing zealots during covid. Those people who scowled or lectured people in public not wearing their paper mask correctly (or not at all) yet when circumstances didnt suit them doing so broke their own morals and rules without a second thought.
Everyone sees themselves as whiter than white .. never dragging the rear wheel down a trail, always follow the highway code to the letter, never allow their dog or cat to poop, p1ss or even f@rt to the nuisance of anyone.
I put my hands up. I shall be taking our pooch up the local forestry in a bit. He can p1ss or poop as much and wherever he likes, I shall not be picking it up either .. when in bear country eh; I shall not consider putting him on the lead if I see a mtber or a horse rider .. my pooch won`t get in their way or be bothered by them, but if they are bothered by him, then thats their problem too.
I put my hands up. I shall be taking our pooch up the local forestry in a bit. He can p1ss or poop as much and wherever he likes, I shall not be picking it up either .. when in bear country eh; I shall not consider putting him on the lead if I see a mtber or a horse rider .. my pooch won`t get in their way or be bothered by them, but if they are bothered by him, then thats their problem too.
Speaking as a fellow dog owner, and MTB'er and pedestrian, that makes you sound like a bit of an A-hole, and part of the problem.
A bit more consideration on your part is required, maybe?
Obvious troll is obvious.
I know of two cats trained to use the toilet to crap
How many do you know of who aren't?
I find these type of complaints are like those mask wearing zealots during covid. Those people who scowled or lectured people in public not wearing their paper mask correctly (or not at all) yet when circumstances didnt suit them doing so broke their own morals and rules without a second thought.
I'll take "things that didn't happen" for $100 please, Alex.
the only folk I know that attempted to train a cat to use a toilet succeeded. I don't know anyone who failed. Most folk do not even attempt it
I believe like any training of cats it needs to be done when they are young
I know of two cats trained to use the toilet to crap
One of them is Jinxy.
As my dog is quite partial to slurping up particularly rotten foind turds... You could argue having her in a public space is to the benefit of the users.
I know of two cats trained to use the toilet to crap
One of them is Jinxy.
I have nipples, Gregg! would you try to milk me?!!! 🤣
the only folk I know that attempted to train a cat to use a toilet succeeded. I don't know anyone who failed.
How would you know? If I sat here listing everything I hadn't done it'd be a long monologue.
It wouldn’t dent the nations finances if we offered dog owners segregated facilities.
heres one of the city’s prototypes:
I remembered that it’s probably best to place the enclosure on grass, as dogs need to pee too.
maybe we raise the cost of a dog licence to £200 per annum to cover the upkeep of these facilities.
make it compulsory to join a dog club.
different factions under one umbrella because we all know that dog owners secretly detest other dog owners?
one of the advantages of dog clubs is that it would allow non dog owners to join the club, should they wish to help walk other peoples dogs.
the dog clubs would be able to offer training and guidance around such issues as dog fouling and handling interactions with other dogs.
i think that we need more dog owning celebs to set an example. It’s great PR for someone like Jennifer Aniston to turn up at some dog walk.
the enduring mystery with dog owners is why they rarely walk their dogs to any distance.
most dog owners barely make it up the hill to hyndland proper.
the dwellings and environs are far more salubrious, the views open up, etc.
Its fairly straightforward for my dog owners to walk their dogs kelvin walkway to milngavie, and catch the return train.
unless your dog is tiny, that’s a realistic daily distance to walk your dog.
the only folk I know that attempted to train a cat to use a toilet succeeded. I don't know anyone who failed.
How would you know? If I sat here listing everything I hadn't done it'd be a long monologue.
I know cat ownewrs who haven't tried but the only cat owners I know who tried succeeded. I know of no one who tried and failed
I know cat ownewrs who haven't tried
Again, how? Is it the sort of conversation topic which crops up in casual conversation over lunch? Did they bring it up or did you ask?
Having a toilet-trained cat is worthy of mention because it is unusual. I don't know any dog owners who haven't tried to train their dog to play the violin. I'm reasonably confident that all the dog owners I know haven't successfully trained their dog to play the violin, but how many have tried and failed I have no idea.
The reason I'm picking at this is because you appear to be asserting that all cat owners who don't have toilet-trained cats simply haven't tried hard enough, which I can assure you is not the case. Apologies if that's not what you were implying.
Having a toilet-trained cat is worthy of mention because it is unusual.
On the assumption that the thread has now finished the serious stuff, can I veer off into the fascinating territory of cat shit? My experience, from owning a cat and from observing stray cats around the place, is that they are quite punctilious regarding crapping in their litter box, or (outside) digging a hole and then covering the turds. Is this what you mean by "toilet trained"?
By "toilet trained" I was referring to TJ's friends who have seemingly taught their cats to use human toilets. That's not going to happen here because one of them will almost certainly use a lid-up loo as a drinking bowl.
Having owned multiple cats over the years, the notion that cats bury their poo is an oversimplification IME. Most do, because they're hiding their presence from potential predators. Some don't because they're Alpha 'dog' and are going "See this? I was here, so you lot had better sod off."
Of our three, the old girl will only stop digging when she hits kangaroos. Of the younglings, one does what I'd consider a normal poo, yet her sister will go anywhere but the litter tray. We have puppy pads dotted around in corners of rooms.
