[Closed] Does anyone else get logged out all the time?

Borked how?

eh? you mean random logouts is a design feature?

corrupt cookies

over-zealous 'security' product

eh? you mean random logouts is a design feature?

I thought you meant the cookie itself was broken in some manner I hadn't noticed.

Who writes the cookies?

Your web browser, onto your hard disk (/$storage).

native chromium/chrome/android. No 3rd party over-zealousing going on here.

No, I know, I didn't mean you specifically, I meant generally.

I have this problem on Opera. Hi, yes, it's me, I'm the guy who still uses Opera. Though I believe that these days its Chromium based so presumably has similar cookie handling to Chrome.

Now then.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/derbyjs/E67seYwFOdI

[i]It turns out that if Chrome is set to "Continue where you left off" on startup (or the equivalent option in Firefox), the [session] cookie does not actually expire when the browser exits[/i]

[img] [/img]

Is this the difference? I have Chrome configured in this way; those who are affected, do you have it set to open a home page / new tab?

Cougar - Moderator
Is this the difference? I have Chrome configured in this way; those who are affected, do you have it set to open a home page / new tab?

I have Opera's equivalent (Open the start page) selected.

Just for the record.

I still only get logged out once per month on safari across iPad, iPhone and Macbook.

I have Opera's equivalent (Open the start page) selected.

Do you have the option to restore previous tabs instead? Can you try it?

I don't know if this is going to make any difference - the retention of the session cookie is a quirk of Chrome, and we can't assume that other browsers work in the same way. Chrome and Opera use the same rendering engine (Blink) though so there's a certain logic to it possibly displaying the same behaviour.

I still only get logged out once per month on safari across iPad, iPhone and Macbook.

If the "remember me" cookie is working as intended, it should be once a fortnight.

Cougar - Moderator
Do you have the option to restore previous tabs instead? Can you try it?

Not just now, sorry. I can maybe try this evening but the logging out behaviour doesn't appear to be consistent enough that trying it for a day or two will definitely provide results.

Don't care if you fix it now, I'm oooot.

Not buying a "P" back, been too long and far too annoying this "little" problem.

mark's sitting there with a switch going 'hahahha they think it's a coding problem that can be solved'

If the "remember me" cookie is working as intended, it should be once a fortnight.

Seems to be less than that for me.

Because it's not working as intended. (-:

Well if anyone on the dev side is actually going to spend any time looking at the issue, here are some observations from when I went cookie sniffing -

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/stw-please-stop-logging-me-out/page/3#post-6942875

As per Stoner's note, seems like the session tracking is messed up

Confirmed, that setting makes a difference. I've just switched Chrome to display a new tab on startup. Rebooted and I'm logged out.

Don't care if you fix it now, I'm oooot.

Not buying a "P" back, been too long and far too annoying this "little" problem.

Good for you, have a biscuit.

I have mine set to New Tab too.

But rebooting doesnt ALWAYS log me out.

ANd anyway, the only consistent log out I get is on Android reboot, when new incidence of chrome always starts with new tab page.

But rebooting doesnt ALWAYS log me out.

If you haven't done anything to inadvertently reset the cookie beforehand, it won't do.

The million dollar question is, what are you doing differently on the two devices which is resetting the cookie on one but not the other? I know the login redirect link does it, but does anything else?

Id ask of others on android, if they reboot, do they get logged out?

Not many people often reboot their phone, I do quite often as I use a handful of batteries rather than charge it over USB (long story)

I've had a biscuit, and sitting watching you lot try and fix a problem we all brought up, hmmmmmm 2 years ago.

Enjoy the hassle, Mr Patronising.

Stoner - Member
Id ask of others on android, if they reboot, do they get logged out?

On various devices I use chrome, edge, opera, dolphin and adblocker browsers. I regularly get logged out of all of them.

I've been a subscriber since pretty much day 1 of Singletrack. The new website is crap on mobile devices (no zoom, can't see the title, can't go to the last page from the menu) , the logout issue has been going on forever and there is no sign of anyone listening. Really considering going away from the Photo now.

the logout issue has been going on forever and there is no sign of anyone listening.

It's not a case of "not listening," as I said earlier they have been unable to replicate the issue, which makes it near-impossible to fix.

I sent my findings to Mark earlier and he said he'd talk to the tech guys about it. They're apparently slammed at the moment (they're working on other projects besides just the forum), but hopefully they might get chance to look at it. Assuming I'm right, it should be a fairly simple fix. (If I'm not then who knows.)

(they're working on other projects besides just the forum)

I think we all assumed that. 8)

With respect, it would be more appropriate to prioritise resources towards fixing the thing that got broken before Christmas, and for which some of us actually pay, ahead of "other stuff". You know - Customer Service? Is there something in the air/water in Yorkshire that makes this concept too alien to understand?

Pass, that's above my pay grade (which isn't hard given it's "zero").

😆

In seriousness,

It's a commercial enterprise. All other things aside, where the dev team focus their efforts has to be prioritised by by management via whatever means makes the best business sense. I cannot for a moment envisage that they would intentionally not do that, so whatever their priorities there's surely a good reason (or at least, a well intentioned reason) behind that.

Ie, it might not be the right decision, but it almost certainly isn't intentionally the wrong one.

(In my opinion, I am not a staff member, etc etc. I'm just guessing.)

Ethics and morals are part of business too.

Not in my experience. (-:

Yo' Mods.. why are You trying to fix a problem that's really not Your issue ? I mean, I do appreciate your efforts n'all, seriously (despite the often snidy remarks I seem to get) but we've been (certainly I anyway) have been on about this for 2 years at least, check the threads I've posted, check the threads others have on the same subject.

We're not complaining for the sake of it, ok you might think we are but it's sad reflection if you do.

STW might think paying for a "P" just entitles us to get the adverts removed, but from my standpoint it means (meant) more. It meant I was contributing in a very small way to keep the forum going and support the development of the STW as a whole, which includes software upgrades and the like.

To give a "for instance" I've been logged in on seabreeze.com.eu since early November, I'm still logged in now and if I click on a thread the forum takes me to the last post I read, which enables me to continue reading from that point onwards instead of on here where you have to scroll/imagine/take a punt at the last post on the thread for you to read on from..

Instances like logging on and staying logged in are so 1996... I've never expected the latest software, the latest gizmo, the latest header, the latest HTML code (or whatever it is) all I've ever really wanted is to be able to read the forum without adverts intruding the whole page [i]before[/i] being able to log back in again.

It's simple really.

But I for one have stopped supporting you for this very simple reason. I honestly don't believe I'm the only one.

The complaints have come thick and fast over the years, and all that's been offered is a URL saved workaround. If anyone in my industry offered that as a solution, temporary or not, they would be laughed at through a smirk and out of the business in minutes. So, before you start having a pop at me for that comment and making excuses about you being a cottage industry etc. etc. The fact is you are not, you do have a a small team of IT bods and a network of IT bods at your disposal to sort issues out. I do not believe for one minute you've got 1 intern running the IT back office, but a bunch of tech you can draw upon.

Sadly, you've decided to pile your IT resource on "other stuff" whatever "other stuff" is you are working on if it's as reliable as this forums logging in issues I expect your IT tech team will be either gainfully employed for a very long time, or out on thier ear sharpish.

Now, no snidy comments please aimed at me. I AM Bored of them.

Yo' Mods.. why are You trying to fix a problem that's really not Your issue ?

Speaking purely for myself and not for the rest of the team:

The entire forum isn't "my issue" as a volunteer. Over the years I've tried to bring transparency to moderation and to tear down this "us and them" attitude. I do it because I love the community, that is all, I think it's a great resource full of (mostly) wonderful and diversely knowledgeable people. But accountability? Oh deary me no.

Sadly, you've decided to pile your IT resource on "other stuff"

I like how you say "pile your IT resource" like they have an army of staff. There is currently one full-time and one part-time tech, and amongst everything else they're currently in the middle of a network upgrade. I'm sure they could drop everything to field what in essence a (granted, long-term) minor inconvenience, but if I were their boss I wouldn't want them to.

Now, no snidy comments please aimed at me. I AM Bored of them.

Look at it from my point of view; again, I'm a volunteer doing what I can, and when people pop up to make pissy comments without contributing to the discussion it tends to irk somewhat.

That said, I didn't really want to bring this to the table but I'm having problems at home at the moment so whilst I'm trying not to bring it to "work" I'm appreciate that I'm probably snarkier than I should be at the moment. For my earlier responses, I sincerely apologise.

It's a commercial enterprise. All other things aside, where the dev team focus their efforts has to be prioritised by by management via whatever means makes the best business sense. I cannot for a moment envisage that they would intentionally not do that, so whatever their priorities there's surely a good reason (or at least, a well intentioned reason) behind that.

I get that. But what is a more pressing priority than keeping hold of a long term customer? It's much easier to keep customers than get new ones. As bikebuoy says, I'm on various other forums. I don't get logged out of them. I don't get logged out of Amazon. I don't get logged out of ebay.

I appreciate I'm just a simple bike mechanic and I know nothing about cookies/HTML etc, but if I had a customer for 10 years and they had brought their bike back to me with the same recurring fault for the last 2 years I wouldn't expect him to be a customer for very much longer... The way I see it either the folks at STW towers don't care or their IT people are incompetent. Sorry, but that's how it is.

well said BB. run for office, I'd vote for you.

Cougar - I'm sure no one it wanting to have a go at you. It does appear that you've tried more in the short lifespan of this thread to figure out the Logout issue than anyone else has in the past two years or more and while you are due our thanks, that's pretty embarrassing really. There's an army of folk waiting to provide feedback on changes and issues, it's just that (judging by the other thread) nothing gets done about them because the forum isn't priority enough.

Yo' Mods.. why are You trying to fix a problem that's really not Your issue ?

Well we do it as we're often seen as the face and contact point of the forum. I stopped looking into computers and webpages as a hobby years ago so my knowledge is crap and very outdated comapred to Cougar so he testing things with the very great help of Stoner is beyond what I can do.

We're not complaining for the sake of it, ok you might think we are but it's sad reflection if you do.

Well don't think that you might thing we do but we don't.

The fact is that while it's been over 2 years since people mentioned this it is a minoroty and proving to be hard to find what the issues was as it hasn't been easy to track the source. I've never been logged out daily only around once per month so can never find what the issue is if I even looked into it. This is the case for a lot of people.

The IT team is tiny as Cougar says, the resources and fundingn to try and sort issues probaly equally so. There is no big coperarion behind ST it's still essentailly 2 guys who wanted to do magazine, they have a little team employees helping with their adventure now but it is very small.

But what is a more pressing priority than keeping hold of a long term customer?

Making sure that the site is live at all?

How do you prioritise things when everything is a priority? I face this on a daily basis at work. It's not easy.

I do take your point, and I agree with it. The thing is, it's Not That Simple. I've explained earlier in this thread why I think - actually, why I believe I [i]know[/i] why it's not been fixed yet:

To extend your example, imagine that that customer *hadn't* brought their bike back, but rather rang you every couple of months with the same complaint, an intermittent fault. You've got the same bike in your workshop, and a few similar models even, and you've tried repeatedly to make it fail in the same way as your customer without success. Meanwhile, most of your other customers have the same bikes and they're fine. Would you still expect to be able to fix it, and think yourself incompetent if you couldn't?

This has been the problem all along. Now after today, hopefully, they've at least got a starting block from which to try and resolve it. After two years though, if it were me I wouldn't file fixing it as a category 1 "drop everything" issue.

Look at it from my point of view; again, I'm a volunteer doing what I can, and when people pop up to make pissy comments without contributing to the discussion it tends to irk somewhat.

You shouldn't be put in that position.

The fact the website upgrade thread got un-stickied after a week, and the powers that be never bothered to post in there, despite all posts on the topic being moved/merged/directed there, speaks volumes.

If I was paying for a P, I'd be P'd off like those above. The reason I am not paying for a P is because of the reasons given above, as well as the forums functionality/[i]interesting[/i] mobile deployment. This is not a dig, if the owners are happy with things, then great.

Jamie, I totally agree with you. I've no idea whether they're "happy with things," I expect they probably aren't. But as Drac and I said, it's a small team trying to scrape a living.

Think about it, it's neither some hobbyist kid in his bedroom doing it for fun nor a Future Publishing franchise with near-infinite resource. And to paraphrase a wise Jedi, despite how it may look to an observer the forum is more complicated than you could possibly imagine.

With respect, it would be more appropriate to prioritise resources towards fixing the thing that got broken before Christmas, and for which some of us actually pay, ahead of "other stuff".

Well they had time earlier in the month to upgrade Grit.cx and Mark is even on there posting info about future STW and Grit updates. Why he can't post on here is anyone guess. I feel sorry for the mods having to deal with the grumbles without backup from the management or even since kind of pay!

more complicated than you could possibly imagine.

I once imagined a cash point that ejected meat.

The forum is as complicated as one wants it to be.

But it is what it is......new forum coming in 2014 etc etc.

Like I said, I don't disagree but from what I'm aware of it's just Not That Simple.

Mark;

I need to give a careful answer to that. Singletrack is a huge beast where the slightest change can make a dramatic an costly difference to us and so it needs to be done very carefully. Singletrack is also far more complicated under the hood than almost anyone outside the office is aware of. There’s more than just a website down there. It hooks into banking systems and direct debit systems as well as multiple other payment processors. Then there’s the subscriber database api’s that connect to banking operations as well as a couple of third party service providers. And more..

But that said, what you see here is also the start of planned roll out of uniform services. It won’t look exactly the same as this but the underlying systems and tech will be running on the same ‘stuff’. The recent design changes to ST were principally to comply with the urgent requirement that it be mobile friendly, as that’s where the majority of traffic comes from. But work on ST3 has already started

 

[quote=Drac ]

Mark;
The recent design changes to ST were principally to comply with the urgent requirement that it be mobile friendly

I missed that Drac, where've you got that from?

Ah. At last we've established part of the Mod pecking order....