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But let me start by saying that I don't think Christians are remotely bothered by chocolate eggs at Easter or toys at Christmas.
Or enjoy them like anyone else perhaps, but see both festivals as (symbolising) more than the secular world that limits it's homage to the altar of consumerism and chocolate alone.
The Christmas is a pagan festival thread gets earlier every year.
lizards, [i]every[/i]whereI heard his old man worked at the [s]Maser[/s]illuminati as a painter
Bede was writing 600 years after Christianity first arrived.
Much like the New Testament then. The oldest bits were still written a couple of hundred years AD.
Not to mention Pagans didn't just vanish when Christiainity arrived.
By the time Bede was writing they'd vanished. And if there had been pockets of Pagans then who's to say they were typical of original pagans.
Wonder if the Romans mentioned a festival called Eostre and what the etemology of the word is...
I'm not disputing the conclusion, merely the reliability of the only bit of evidence cited.
I think Easter is a more convincingly christian festival than christmas.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2011/apr/23/easter-pagan-roots
The author of [url= http://www.touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=16-10-012-v#continue ]this article[/url] touches on some of the principal salient points regarding Christmas, Easter, and the calendar. Not exhaustively, mind you, but a helpful start.
So a "journal of mere Christianity" thinks the pagan stance is overstated. Do they have any revelations on where bears defecate?
It seems obvious that pagan festivals have been nicked by the church, but how would anyone know for a fact? Bede was writing 600 years after Christianity first arrived.
None of it is fact. It's all made up and mostly a regurgitation of earlier myths from older religions.
SaxonRider, it's an intersting article if potentially partisan. However it does reinforce the idea that there is *overlap* between pagan midwinter and Christmas. Pretty big co-incidence otherwise, no?
In Finland they have a midwinter celebration on the 21st as well as Christmas. But then they were pagan until the 13th century.
So a "journal of mere Christianity" thinks the pagan stance is overstated
I think I'll stop trusting anything my GP says because she read it in the BMJ.
Did you read the flipping article? I said I included it because it was a helpful start; not because it was academically exhaustive!
That said, I can assure you that, although it is from a semi-popular, even conservative, Christian journal, it is a relatively mainstream one and not a wacky fundamentalist one. I reiterate that I have only offered that particular article as a helpful place to start. I can assure you from an academic point of view that the writer's history is sound.
The article doesn't seem to mention Easter, except once in passing.
Wasn't the crucifixion close to passover. If so that would rule out Easter being a European pagan festival AFAIC.
Problem is mid-winter and spring are such obvious things for everyone to celebrate I'd guess many cultures do it.
Indeed, Molgrips.
What is most important though is that Christmas, which was a secondary calculation to what the Germanic Christians would come to call Easter, is essentially a symbolic date based on antique and late-antique number theory and such considerations as Galenic gestational theory relating to the Spring Equinox.
(I am at a disadvantage because I am typing this on my phone while watching my kids play ice hockey, so forgive any glaring mistakes please.)
My wife points out links between Easter and Ishtar, rather than Eostre. Ishtar seems to have a lot more grounding in history - a Sumerian fertility goddess*.
It seems extremely obvious that eggs and bunnies would be associated with spring. No-one questions the origins of daffodils on mothers' day cards do they? It's clearly because they are everywhere at that time of year.
* Although I found [url= http://bellejar.ca/2013/03/28/easter-is-not-named-after-ishtar-and-other-truths-i-have-to-tell-you/ ]another article[/url] rubbishing this link too.
Incidentally, in the Christian East, the word Easter is not used. It is called Pascha. So if we're looking at etymological origins, we need to look at the Passover.
Bring back the festival that lets you dance naked with a daffodil.
Those were the days (deep sigh)
Yeah the Passover root is more common anyway isn't it?
Pasg in Welsh, FWIW. As they are the remaining Romano-British after the Germanic invasions...
Bring back the festival that lets you dance naked with a daffodil.
Wednesday? Still a thing here.
The internet says that THIS is Wednesday.
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Did you read the flipping article?
I whizzed through it but am I wrong to point out the obvious potential for bias? I don't know the author from Adam (yeah I know) so he could be an academic pillar but the combination of subject and publication was like reading Specialized review in certain bike mags,next to the full page ad for the same bike.
@thepurist: fair enough.
Looking forward to coffee and choc when Lent is over
Pagan egg sounds fun
Their last album was ok, but not exactly a bundle of laffs...
Bring back the festival that lets you dance naked with a daffodil.
Yeah, Real Ale festivals.
There should be a law banning excess packaging. the only plus I guess is that it is easily recycled compared to some.
Ah finally found it
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Bring back the festival that lets you dance naked with a daffodil.
Those were the days (deep sigh)
Wasn't that the STW Awards?
Anyway, I am just waiting for Santa to bring my choccy eggs. 😀
I....can't.....believe.....I....am....writing....this.....but...
I'm with chewkw on this! Though I have not seen the programme he's referring to.
Most chocolate, even that with a "fair trade" logo is NOT truly fair trade, nothing like, and the major chocolate companies literally don't give a damn.
Tony's nails it perfectly with the design of their bar
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"One day it struck us—couldn’t we make a statement about the inequality in the cocao trade by dividing our chocolate bars into unequal pieces? What better way to communicate the inequality of the trade than by calling attention to it with every bite?"
And here's the reasons why:
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You can read more at their website>our mission>the problem.
I....can't.....believe.....I....am....writing....this.....but...I'm with chewkw on this!
Don't worry - I don't think you are. (Though as always it is hard to tell)
chewkw's objection seems to be that if chocolate is made for third world "slavery" prices then he shouldn't have to pay so much for it in the shops. Which is, errrr, a rather [i]different[/i] take on the ethics 😀
To be honest though I object to infographics like that above - those figures are pretty meaningless without some idea of the cost of living.
Depending on where that cocoa farmer lives, €1000 a year [i]might[/i] be a pretty decent wage. e.g. [url= http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2014/01/incomes-sub-saharan-africa ]The average wage in sub-Saharan Africa is $762 (~€682) [/url] and only $556 (~€498) if you exclude the more prosperous South Africa and Seychelles.
I love the dinosaur eggs. I want a chocolate alien egg complete with Mini Egg Facehugger
Forget "Easter" are the eggs even "chocolate" or merely some nasty imitation?
Weeeell according to the stained glass centre piece* at the front of our local church (named after him) he was a bearded fella in a dress, so with a bit of comic licence for effect I think it was an accurate description 😉I mean, referring to Bede as a 'weird religious beardy type'
it's a very common argument, lot's of people think this is the case. After all when trying to spread the "good word" to a bunch of godless [s]heathens[/s] pagans who already have big pissups at certain times of the year, if you have your own little celebrations which due to ancient calendar issues allow a lot of leeway in exactly when they are held.... overwriting the local customs is probably a good way of doing it.and to talk of the Church as having ripped off a bunch of Roman and Germanic festivals for its own purposes?
I just don't know how accurate that argument is, or as someone worded it a bit better a page back...
I'm not disputing the conclusion, merely the reliability of the only bit of evidence cited.
*which I spent many hours as a kid staring at while bored out of my skull.
TBH Easter seems obviously a fertility festival; people get bogged down in exactly which one it overwrote/stole but it doesn't matter. Eggs = fertility and the new year makes sense, eggs = the stone across the mouth of Jesus' burial cave doesn't really make any sense at all, it just feels like whatever the equivalent of a backronym is
Eggs = fertility and the new year makes sense
Likewise bunnies and baby chicks.
it just feels like whatever the equivalent of a backronym is
[url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retroactive_continuity ]Retcon[/url].
I'm weirdly angry about this. Mainly about being forced to become a soul-less caricature of humanity, mr average, mr quiet, mr passive, mr diplo-freakin'-matic.
I hereby request my name be changed to Winston Smith, for it is that which I've been forced to become.
Cheers GrayhamS, and you're right it's a commercial simplification, however I support their mission wholeheartedly, as I believe most people would....if only they were aware of the reality of the situation.
Fair enough GFS. I appreciate your stance, not sure I share your optimism though. 😕
I'm weirdly angry about this.
Angry about what exactly?
A loony-lefty, minority-pandering, PC-garn-mad, ban on the word "Easter" by chocolate makers...
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And I've got a non-denominational chocolate ovoid on my desk that says "Your Easter egg has been made with Cadbury Dairy Milk" on the packaging. So Cadbury aren't hiding it very well.
They're too busy hiding the reduction of milk and cocoa and the increase in sugar and vegetable oil (including palm oil) in their products to hide Easter.
*shakes angry fist in Kraft's direction*