[Closed] Dirty Reiver refund policy, admin fee!

If it’s been cancelled I’m surprised they can charge an admin fee for refunds. Doesn’t sound right at all...

A copy and paste of the email!

At this stage we are able to offer riders three options:

1. We will automatically transfer all entries to the new date. If this is OK for you, and any additional riders that you registered, you do not need to do anything and we will remain in touch as normal with event updates

2. If you are unable to make the new date we can transfer your entry to ‘The Distance’ (www.thedistance.cc). This 2 day introduction to adventure bike packing is still scheduled to go ahead in late August

3. OR we can offer a refund (minus £10 admin and the £1.50 card fee, as per earlier refund/transfers) To register for a refund please follow this link and we will collect your details. Refunded riders will also receive a link for early entry access in 2021.

Manchester marathon got cancelled for me and the mrs, I had the option to do the new date (which neither of us could do) or swap to next year but they couldn't tell me a date or cancel at a cost of including all fees 18.70 but I was told I only had 6days to act or I'd lose all my money, awesome thanks

It stings, but I genuinely don't think a lot of these events can afford full refunds, for some organisers the event might make up a significant portion of their annual income, or a lot of the money might have already been spent, etc. etc.

Look at the admin fee as a sort of 'maintenance fee' so that the event still exists next year...

As above the £10 probably covers their costs to get this far. I doubt they have their own payment system so will be using a third party who probably take a non refundable £1.50 of each transaction. Bit like ebay/paypal would.

I very much doubt focal Events will be taking a profit in these circumstances. The alternative is probably to file bankruptcy and let you chase through the administrators?

Look at the admin fee as a sort of ‘maintenance fee’ so that the event still exists next year…

I was thinking pretty much the same thing. I don't think many of these events are big money spinners for the organisers. I suspect that newer events like the Reiver would be even less likely to have a big fund stored away to rely on in these circumstances.

I do hope they can keep going.

Also, PayPal no longer refund their fees when processing a refund.

In a slightly less sweary version of what I wrote on the Velo Brum thread last week:

The folks that run these events are, I imagine, absolutely bricking it, as the companies that run them are generally small and don't make massive profits, so there'll be very little in the bank to cover this kind of thing. Insurance for this kind of thing is *very* expensive, so they probably haven't got it (and you can't really expect them to). Whilst they are worried about their jobs, families and mortgages, it seems a bit churlish to be complaining about losing money you've already spent on something that is and was entirely unnecessary in the grand scheme of things (like a big bike ride or a big run).

Give 'em a break.

The IOM ferry offered me a transfer to next years TT dates for no fee, or a refund less £15, so I guess this is going to be a fairly common policy.

FFS it's a tenner, get over it. We're all being shafted in some form by this damn virus and there's bugger all we can do about it, so be thankful you're getting anything back at all. Good luck to the Dirty Reiver organisers and well done for trying to keep it going on another date rather than cancelling it altogether.

There have been reports of events cancelled recently that have given no refund at all or a much smaller proportion of the entry fee has been refunded.

When I got the email about the Reiver my reaction was that their policy seems pretty fair all things considered. I'll be holding on in the hope of a September event but if we're still locked down by then I won't be too unhappy about getting a refund less £11.50 if it can't go ahead at all.

Insurance for this kind of thing is *very* expensive, so they probably haven’t got it (and you can’t really expect them to).

I'd have thought insurance would be compulsory for events like this? Whether or not it covers cancellation is something else entirely I guess.

I do agree though. Nobody is profiting from this, it's a shit situation for everyone, so if you can afford it, probably best just to take it on the chin and hope we still have these events next year.

I’d have thought insurance would be compulsory for events like this? Whether or not it covers cancellation is something else entirely I guess.

Yeah, they'll probably have cancellation insurance for stuff like weather, but insurance for a pandemic is very expensive, and they probably won't have that.

probably best just to take it on the chin and hope we still have these events next year.

Very much so.

£10 sounds excessive for an admin fee, if it's something else then state that.

Actually insurance for a pandemic, before there is one, isn't expensive, but who would take that out!? There's not been one of this scale since 1918!

Now it's obviously basically impossible to get.

Agree that £10 "admin fee" seems excessive, why not say "less £10 to cover sunk costs and ensure the event can go ahead again another time", which I'd be far happier to pay!

I’d have thought insurance would be compulsory for events like this? Whether or not it covers cancellation is something else entirely I guess.

LIABILITY insurance is compulsory. Anything else is an added bonus but insurance covering cancellation is incredibly expensive.

You can get it but if you want to insure against cancellation due to weather, it's expensive because of the high likelihood (in the UK) that you'll use it. If you want to insure against cancellation due to apocalyptic scenarios, it's expensive because, while the likelihood of using it is very low, the outgoing costs will be astronomical.

Most events make absolute peanuts, they're run as a sort of community spirited thing by volunteers who quite often don't have the corporate governance structure or cashflow to manage unprecedented situations like this in any other way.

It's not their fault that they've cancelled - best you can do is to consider it as a £10 donation to charity that, if it wasn't made would result in the collapse of that charity...

You should have signed up for the Bham Velo instead

I have business interruption insurance including for pandemics. It only includes certain named diseases though. As Coronavirus/COVID-19 wasn’t in it when I took it out in January it doesn’t cover it though. That leaves us and everyone else right royally screwed.

I’m sure it’ll be the same with the Dirty Reiver organisers. It’s not like they’ll be swanning about in big cars from all the £11.50’s they’re collecting. Bit churlish to moan when so many could quite easily lose their livelihoods and house.

Sorry - moan over.

TS

Tartanscarf, bang on.

FFS...

Seems fair enough to me for all the work and time put in.

Sounds entirely fair to me, IMO if you can afford the event in the first place you can afford to lose the cost of 3 pints.

I have a cabin booked in Glencoe for the MacAvalanche that isn't happening any more. Glencoe is doing badly enough as it is so anything they can offer will be taken as a bonus. Shit happens, I've saved more in diesel the last few weeks than the cabin cost so sod it.

Evening folks, as one of the DR team, I'll try to clarify some points.
We very much regret not refunding 100% of the money that riders have invested in the event, but we aren't in a position to do this unfortunately. As has been stated above, there is (to our knowledge) no standard insurance that would have covered this - the £10million PL cover we have certainly doesn't. I'm sure we could have got an 'all eventualities' cover, but it would have significantly increased event costs. The postponement wouldn't trigger any pay out anyway.
The £1.50 (more for non UK cards) is taken by a card handler when the entry is made. We never see that, as their service has been provided. They don't charge for refunds, but the £1.50 is already gone.
The £10 is indeed (to quote njee20) "to cover sunk costs and ensure the event can go ahead again another time". Please accept our apologies, we should have been clearer. Our use of 'admin charge' certainly should not point towards the entry system we use (ADVNTR Events) as they are manually processing refunds etc at no charge to us, or to entrants and are doing their work for no financial gain.
What has saved us so far is that we work with some truly amazing small firms who (like ADVNTR) have waived costs, or minimised them hoping that the event will go ahead in autumn. There are still significant costs to bear from the lost date however. Our medics, timing, sanitation/refuse services, campsite, northernstartepees, caterers, photographers etc are all suffering along with us and it is only right that they retain deposits. Forestry England, Kielder have also been amazing, as have the event sponsors, who have all stuck by us.
Many riders have offered to let us keep their money and/or carry over to next year, but with current uncertainty, we don't want to be holding funds without knowing what 2021 will look like.
I don't know all of the legal ins and outs of cancellation (if it does finally come to that), but T&Cs upon entry stated 'No Refunds' and suggested having holiday/travel insurance. We will do our very best to make sure that riders get as much of their entry fee refunded as we can sustain and will do our best to ensure that refunded riders this year will get priority entry for 2021.
I'll just have to furlough the chauffeur driven Bentley......
Joking aside, if the situation has cost you, we'll endeavour to make it up to you as far as we are able.

:thumbs up:

The Long Course Weekend were only offering a 50% refund. Count yourself lucky..

Nice one boxelder. Hope things work out for you.

Having done a few of their events the organisers seem a decent bunch of lads and I’m sure they’re doing it for the benefit of cycling rather than as a get rich quick scheme. There are no winners in this situation

To add to my earlier post - with more time to 'play with', we have been able to give 100% refunds for the Frontier300 and this year's entrants will get priority entry next year (everything crossed....).
This is only because Lyon Cycle (as UK distributor for the main sponsors) have gone above and beyond to support us.
Oh, and please stand by other events that you may have entered on 19th September. If we've created a clash, let us know and we'll see what we can do.