[Closed] Digital SLR info: buy now or wait for new stuffs?

Oliver; please go on? Very interested to hear your thoughts actually.

And please, any (constructively critical) comments are welcome. 🙂

I was hoping MrSmith would be along; I need to be made to feel pathetic, useless and worthless....

i charge by the hour and we have to agree a safeword. but i'm booked up.

as i said up there somewhere i would not be commenting. i find intellectualising imagery tedious and akin to navel gazing when it has to be verbalized, i'm aware of the visual language but i would just be talking about something i have no interest in.

have a look at this chaps images from the 'photo's you are proud of' thread.
they went strangely un-commented on by the other photographers but his visual awareness is streets ahead of anyone else who has posted on that thread.
a mix of film/digital different formats and obviously has both colour and B&W mediums under his control.
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/polarisandy/ ]http://www.flickr.com/photos/polarisandy/[/url]

i could talk about why i like (some of) his images, them being high quality makes that easy.

i find intellectualising imagery tedious and akin to navel gazing when it has to be verbalized, i'm aware of the visual language but i would just be talking about something i have no interest in.

Do what?

Was that comment deliberately designed to be as pretentious as possible?

Do I take it then, that my work is beneath your consideration?

Oh whell. 😥

elfin they are what they are. whatever i think about them would be viewed as some kind of response to your comment about mine:
"a few fairly insipid, heavily 'shopped pics"
as i said before im not fishing for plaudits or criticism what matters to me is a happy client/art director.

you are after a response and plenty of people have given you that already. my only 'advice' would be to look at the link i posted above and maybe be inspired

It's wrong to expect a professional photographer to crit random imagery produced for pleasure, other than technical advice, it's all meaningless. So i wouldn't get wound up by his remark, it seemed a perfectly reasonable response.

Personally, for what it's worth i enjoyed the double yellow and tram lines shot, so take some pleasure that momentarily you gave me visual pleasure.

Now excuse me for a bit of pretension.

That stuff is Art school stuff, the sort of thing that was cool at the time you're trying to build a portfolio, the other shot i did think had some merit was the pillar vanishing point to person on steps, 'shows a grasp of perspective' would be the comment on the school report..

So that you have a talent and enjoy what you're up to goes without saying and at the end of the day the most important person to impress is yourself, every persons perception is different, some get it some don't, as long as you do then that's all there is.

Lucky you don't have to prostitute your talent like Mr Smith, only to have some moron client tell him it's not what he wants and even worse he aint going to pay for it.

As to my credentials, My father was a photographer before me and I did twenty years in another life, part of it lecturing at colleges, all pre digital, when I learned we judged distances without rangefinders, judged exposure by experience and did an apprenticeship on single shot glass plate cameras.

So grudging praise from me is praise indeed, even if you are an argumentative b'stard at times with the merest hint of a complex of something or other, keep it up and enjoy it for what it is..

I've always loved this pic by Robert Capa:

It's blurred, out of focus, overexposed and technically very flawed, yet somehow that's what makes it work. It's a bastard good picture. Conveys the action, the chaos and insanity of war perfectly, imo.

Coincidentally, I saw this pic at the weekend at the exhibition of Hungarian photographers at the RA. Capa shot several rolls of the invasion and they were sent back to London where nearly all of them were ruined by being dried too fast in haste to print something in the paper.

Okay, try lining the thumbnails up something like 11,4,12,3,5,7,1,2,8,10,6,9 and the lines follow all the way through

It's wrong to expect a professional photographer to crit random imagery produced for pleasure

Hmm. I've discussed photography with such figures as Don McCullin and various others whose names I've forgotten or aren't 'famous', and none of them have been dismisive or condesending or at all arrogant in the way MrSmith has at times. Indeed his attitude seems to be 'I'm too important to lower myself to give you advice or criticism'. TBH, it don't bother me, cos in my opinion, I haven't seen anything of his work that tells me he's in any way qualified to pass judgement on me or indeed anyone else. Certainly not in any artistic context.

But there you go.

That stuff is Art school stuff, the sort of thing that was cool at the time you're trying to build a portfolio

I concur completely. Nothing wrong with that, per se, but I've already said there's nowt I'm especially chuffed with; I set myself a simple assignment just as an exercise in going and looking for images. And I had fun doing so. I've got much better pics than anything there, and I know I can produce far better images. I'm not going to beat myself up that I've 'failed' in any way though, cos I jolly well have not, really. I enjoyed the whole process,and it's shown me how much I've lost touch with my real abilities, and how much need to get back into it, brush my skilz up, get back into the flow of 'seeing'. Much like a musician who hazzunt picked up their instrument in a long while I spose.

whatever i think about them would be viewed as some kind of response to your comment about mine

Nope. I was merely expressing my completely honest opinion, nothing more. As a professional, I expect you can easily handle it. And having had literally thousands of people commenting on my own work, in college, Uni, exhibitions etc, I'm used to criticism. I've learned to be quite thick skinned. 🙂

This isn't about points scoring; it's about honest onions. That's all. You strike me as somewhat defensive though.

I wasn't actually asking 'ooh please Mr Professional please say nice encouraging things about my pathetic little pictures', just asking what you honestly thought about them; did you like/dislike them, reasons, what they 'say' to you, etc.

But if you don't wanna take part in a healthy discussion about expression and communication, then up to you.

Right.. I really like the red building and the double yellows. The former is just a nice sharp zing of colour, but the yellows is better cos it's a bit more evocative. Double yellows are a feature of our life, and the railway lines conjure up something slightly different and they cleanly cross in the middle of the image which suggests convergence, but also like a 'strike through' like one is crossing out the other.

I hope you don't think that's intellectualising, just putting down what the images caused my brain to cough up 🙂

PS Mr Smith I understand your point of view about commenting, but you could say which (if any) you like..? 🙂

Now then Elfin, stop buggering about with holiday snaps 😉 and post that pic I like, you know which one.....my favourite. 🙂

No Peter this is just about this one set of pics, that's all.

Interesting that the yellow lines pic seems to have emerged as a 'favourite'. I like Mol's comments especially. Fascinating to read how other people interpret visual information.

Yeah that's kind of how I consume artistic photographs, mostly. I doubt if I really am genuinely artistic like some folk are.. Stuff like this is all about exploring connections of memories, images and emotions like being on a bus whose route winds its way through my neurons and synapses.

Yeah alright now you're just being a ponce. 😐

😆

But you're right though. It's fascinating to think about what 'turns us on', so to speak. What sort of things trigger off subconscious responses from the deepest recesses of our minds.

Interesting to read GrahamS's view of himself as a 'left brained engineery type', as though somehow that might prevent him from having the depth of emotional involvement with more abstract concepts. I'm not convinced of that one meself. I mean, we all have [i]emotions[/i], all of us. They just manifest themselves in different ways.

Also, I'm not a fayn of the way people say 'ooh but I'm not an expert so my opinion doesn't count for anything'. Cobblers. Everyone's onion counts for something, when it comes to art and visual communication and stuff. I certainly don't subscribe to this 'only experts and professionals have the right to speak with any authority' on a subject. Professional's such as MrSmith and SebRogers' onions are o more valid than anyone else's, when it comes to matters artistic. In fact, some of the most insightful comments/criticisms of my own photography have come from people who don't even really take photographs. In the same way that kids often see things 'clearer' than adults, because their minds aren't as clouded by 'rules' and conventions and preconceptions and all that sort of thing.

I once slagged off one of Damian Hirst's 'works', when he was standing right behind me. 😆

I never did get invited to the Turner Prize Private View again. 😳

Must admit I was a bit nervous about posting my pics up on here, 'baring my soul' as it were. Speshly as I'm [i]occasionally[/i] slightly 'outspoken', shall we say, on various matters, speshly things visual. I expect a certain degree of reaction. But actually, having done so, I now feel more confident in my abilities, and have a clearer idea of how to progress in a positive manner.

I know what you mean about the technically imperfect stuff Elf, gives it some character. I took this photo when I was pissing around with a Canon film camera and it's completely out of focus but kind of works and I think it would be rubbish if it was in focus. It's not that exciting even out of focus but it adds a bit of extra interest I think 😆

[img] [/img]

tom; that is [i]exactly[/i] what I'm on about. The technical imperfections give it an ethereal, almost sinister quality actually. Which makes it much more powerful as an image. For me, it evokes thoughts of fear and paranoia, feeling disorientated, scared and lonely.

It's like, being in a care home or institution or something, and you're all alone, and no-one is around to help you, and you're wandering about feeling helpless and confused...

Someone else might just look at and think 'Eh? have you been on the meths again Elfin?'. 😆

But there you go. That's just my onion, which I think is perfectly valid and as important as anyone else's.

hehe, thanks for your comments 🙂 unfortunately it was just one of those lucky mistakes, most of my "technically ok" photos (which can be found in my [url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/toddersby/ ]photostream[/url] if you're at all interested) are a bit boring and sterile.

If you've not jumped already Elf then you may find this interesting. NikonRumours is saying the D800 will be announced within 60 days.

http://nikonrumors.com/2011/10/03/the-name-will-be-nikon-d800-the-sensor-will-be-36mp-99-probability.aspx/

Elfinsafety, i've got a D700 to sell if you still want one? Let me know.

If you've not jumped already Elf then you may find this interesting. NikonRumours is saying the D800 will be announced within 60 days.

phew STW doesn't change much does it, you guy's would argue with yourselves if left alone long enough.

FWIW I've got a D90 and a D700.
Bought the D700 amongst other things for the high ISO performance.
Both great cameras, thought about waiting for D800 but as someone above said the best camera in the world will always be coming out in 6 months.. bit like bikes really.
I reckoned in the end that i might as well just buy it, and use it, rather than spending time reading nikon rumours/interweb etc.
D700 will always be (as my pics may well testify) a better camera than i am a photographer.
Enjoy your camera, whatever you get.

I thought the high ISO performance of the D7000 was almost as good as the D700?

Someone's done a comparison here:

http://artoftheimage.blogspot.com/2010/11/nikon-d7000-vs-nikon-d700-high-iso.html

For a Nikon user solely looking for better high ISO performance, the D7000 would be pretty hard to ignore, considering it's about half the price.

[url= http://nikonrumors.com/2011/10/09/nikon-d800-specs-recap.aspx ]NikonRumours have been posting more details about the D800 today.[/url]

[list]
[*]36MP sensor[/*]
[*]100% viewfinder coverage[/*]
[*]Improved AF with face recognition – the D800 will still have 51 points AF point[/*]
[*]Dual memory card slots (still not sure if they will be SD, CF or both)[/*]
[*]USB 3.0[/*]
[*]ISO range: 100 – 6400, ISO LO @ 50 and ISO HI-2 @ 25600[/*]
[*]The screen will be larger than 3 inches[/*]
[*]The D800 will not have built-in GPS[/*]
[*]Expeed 3 processor[/*]
[*]There will be two different D800 versions/models, one with the antialiasing filter removed[/*]
[*]4 fps continuous shooting, about 6 fps in DX mode with optional battery pack[/*]
[*]Full HD video in 1920 × 1080/30p[/*]
[*]Headphone jack, can input from an external device such as a PCM sound recorder, available also in new small wireless transmitter[/*]
[*]86K pixel split control, AF, exposure, white balance, etc. compatible[/*]
[*]CF card and SD card slot[/*]
[*]Shutter durability of 200,000 cycles[/*]
[*]Market price is about 300,000 yen[/*]
[*]Announcement on October 26, released on November 24[/*][/list]

No idea how credible all that is, but it certainly sounds interesting.

Well i'm going to buy a D7000 afte rmuch umming and ahhing

Where's the best place to sell my D80?

interesting thread so i hope this minor hijack wont deviate things.

can anyone recommend some good websites / reading for an absolute novice to learn the fundamentals of composing and taking good shots? i have zero camera experience apart from taking pish shots with compacts and iphones and the like. I would like to find out more about how to take good pictures with a possible view to buying my own camera eventually.

TIA

David

There's a good little set of intro lessons by Jodie Coston here:
http://www.morguefile.com/docs/Classroom

If you want more on composition, then I found The Photographer's Eye to be a good book for a bumbling amateur like me:
[img] [/img]
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1905814046

davidrussel - there's some good basic tutorials in the tutorials section (strangely 🙂 ) of the Talk Photography forum.

D800 could be pretty sweet. 36MP files are a bit overkill for most purposes though.

Thanks Graham + Grum, will take a look at those this afternoon while working™

Cheers

No idea how credible all that is, but it certainly sounds interesting.

They have my attention 🙂

D800 could be pretty sweet. 36MP files are a bit overkill for most purposes though.

Yeah, but bear in mind that Nikon are probably looking to produce a body that they will sell for at least the next five years, so they have to "future proof" a bit.

I'm sure you'll be able to take lower res shots with it if required. It will certainly have a DX mode.

The 36mp replaces the old 24mp sensor of 2008. I can't see the next cycle being longer than 3 years.

I reckon we're getting to the "good enough" plateau though, so I could see this body (or variations of it) selling longer.

That's been a common line of thought since 10MP sensors. I have several lenses that out-resolve my 24MP sensor so I'm happy to have more. [url= http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/resolution.shtml ]There's a good article on LL covering resolution and MP[/url].

36MP can be out-resolved at apertures larger than f8. You need a sensor of nearly 1000MP before you can be sure your lens isn't theoretically the limiting factor at f1.4.

I'd guess the MP race has a few iterations left in it yet and I gave up worring about memory sizes after being convinced the 16K ram pack on my ZX81 was all I'd ever need. 😉

I'm sure you'll be able to take lower res shots with it if required. It will certainly have a DX mode.

Will you be able to take lower res shots in RAW with the full frame crop factor though?

That's been a common line of thought since 10MP sensors. I have several lenses that out-resolve my 24MP sensor so I'm happy to have more.

What for though? Do you regularly make huuuuuuge prints? I've printed 30'x20' very successfully off my 12MP GF1, can't see many occasions you'd want to go bigger than that.

I have a nice newish i5 iMac with lots of HD space but I'd still rather not have to deal with massive files all the time.

Will you be able to take lower res shots in RAW with the full frame crop factor though?

I dunno. Tis all theoretical at the mo innit?

No reason why they couldn't implement that feature, but that doesn't mean they will.

See I bloody knew it!

Hmm, means there will be some D700 bargains about hopefully... 🙂

Elfinsafety, i've got a D700 to sell if you still want one? Let me know.

Won't be for a month or three tbh. Got to get winter fuel bills pre-empted and paid up front a bit first or it just gets too frightening. Priorities, then toys. 🙂

How much? I won't be looking to pay much more than £1100 really, and I'd want it in very good condition for that. Might see if the D700 is discontinued, might be some decent discount kit deals too.

I've printed 30'x20' very successfully off my 12MP GF1

Thirty by twenty [i]feet[/i]? 😯 Really? You making billboards?

Done a few more pics with compact. Nowt special, but fun to just snap away, play around with shapes, patterns, light etc.

I meant inches dammit. 😡

Nikon rumours is just that, rumours. The only people that know what the spec of the D800 will be is Nikon.

The spec listed there makes it as good as, or better than the D3s, and there is no chance of that ever happening.

Nikon rumours is just that, rumours. The only people that know what the spec of the D800 will be is Nikon.

Fair point, but they were practically spot on with the Nikon 1 system.

NikonRumours guess:
[img] [/img]

Actual Nikon 1:
[img] [/img]

http://nikonrumors.com/2011/09/22/pretty-damn-close.aspx/

Yeah that is damn close

What for though? Do you regularly make huuuuuuge prints?

Given that storage is essentially free I can't see a downside to high resolution. The diminishing returns don't matter.

Given that storage is essentially free I can't see a downside to high resolution.

I though that before I got my 5D MK2, now I have it set to sRAW (10mp instead of 21mp) simply because it saves space and time uploading. You can also fit almost twice as much on an SD card in the first place. It is good to have the option though, in case you do want to print something BIG!

I guess it's all relative. I can get 1000 24mp raw files on the 2 cards in my camera which is enough for me. The processing bottleneck isn't file size but reviewing & PP.

davidrussel
http://www.photokaboom.com/

Yes. My favourite is a 3' wide 5:2 format which is a small crop from the frame.

Fairy 'nough.

By the way I can't remember if we have done the GFX1 rumours yet? Apparently this site has a pretty good rep for accurate rumours...

[img] [/img]

Announced within 2 months Panasonic will release the true successor to the GF1 and it will be called the GFX1 not the GX1!

It will be rangefinder styled like the Panasonic L1 of 2006 (above, my mock up), with built in EVF. That is 100% confirmed.

The camera is a true Fuji X100 / Sony NEX 7 competitor and is marketed toward GF1 enthusiasts who aren’t satisfied with the GF2 and GF3.

The Leica 25mm F1.4 will be in one of the kit options.

I am also told to expect another Leica prime to be announced alongside it as well as a fast 40mm pancake.

http://www.eoshd.com/content/4168/high-end-panasonic-mirrorless-will-be-gfx1

It's great to see the competition hotting up in the mirrorless world.