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Last night I clicked on an ad here, for this:
http://en.devialet.com/phantom/
I started reading all the marketing spiel in my usual sceptical manner. The more I read, the less sceptical I got. I've been interested in audio equipment and especially loudspeakers since childhood, I have an engineering degree I've been working in pro-audio for the last seven years. I suspect this is the most revolutionary thing to happen to hi-fi in a very long time. Just incredible!
At first glance it looks like the usual BS marketing hyperbole...however Devialet's systems are quite rightly renowned for groundbreaking tech and performance to match.
Fingers crossed they deliver...who wouldn't want a speaker that looks like the robot from Bjork's [i]All Is Full Of Love[/i]?!
Why?
Soooooo.... I'm guessing the shape of it improves the sound dispersion, in a similar way to the B&W Nautilus?
They have them in Harrods - I passed them on the way to see the Airwheels...
meh
Well, I do like my sound and have a simple yet amazing system in Meridian DSP5200 hooked to a Squeezebox. It sounds amazing.
I was fortunate enough to have this on trial last week, it is mighty impressive, without sounding like an audiophile, it manages clarity and presentation on a scale i have never heard from such a small package.
I was so impressed, I will be selling my B&W MM1's and various other bits to fund this.
have you actually heard it or just basing the rave review on reading a website?
EDIT: in the time I was typing it appears we do have someone who's heard it. the question was to the OP
I spent some time on the site but beyond 'it's amazing and look a computer controls everything' I couldn't find an explanation of how it differs from conventional speakers other than there's flappy bass ear things of some sort.
WTF is "homogenous sound" supposed to mean? 🙄
Don't get too hung up on how it works, its a speaker (a very clever one) that produces sound not heard before at this price level (IMHO!)
It's hi-fi MrWoppit, none of the terms used to describe it have to actually mean anything.
[edit]
mashiehood - I'm unlikely to hear one, or ever spend £1500 on one either but I'm interested in how stuff works.
It's hi-fi MrWoppit
I doubt that very much, old man.
[i]I doubt that very much[/i]
on what basis?
WTF is "homogenous sound" supposed to mean?
as opposed to different portions being emphasized, like the boom and tizz you can get from certain over-emphasized systems, like many Bose systems.
Well it's a pretty website but I think I would need to hear it before pressing the Order Now button. That smacks of Bose style marketing.
I'm a bit dubious (well more than a bit) about the claims made for bass response from such a small unit. Oh and I see they've gone back to 70s marketing by quoting peak power outputs. Impressive eh?
Personally I don't think it will come close to a Nautilus, or an 801, or ATCs. But of course, I haven't heard it.
I dont think they are targeting Nautilus, High end Meridian or ATC. This is very much a product for the setup, forget generation but who also want impressive sound. It does that.
Seriously, those who are intrigued should go and listen.
Define "impressive sound". Furthermore I would like some clarification of:
"Phantom on its own will replace your stereo systems, speakers, docking stations and home-cinema. It exceeds them at least 1000 times in terms of sound quality"
Against what baseline?
"Phantom is unique. It emits sound using a new revolutionary process, according to the absolute rules of acoustic perfection"
Which rules are those then?
"Phantom integrates a unique system producing ultra deep sounds by high pressure beating of its lateral wings".
Er.. you mean the cones go in and out?
have you actually heard it or just basing the rave review on reading a website?
No, I haven't heard it - but I design loudspeakers (I'm currently finishing off an 800W class D PA speaker with DSP) and I know all the limitations that we battle against. All their ideas stack up, it's really bloody clever!
I can completely pull apart why Bose stuff tends to sound awful - there are so many bad things going on technically. This is like what I'd do if you gave me a very very big R&D budget (and I'd thought of the combined Class A & Class D power amp design - that is genius!) To pull all this together and make it affordable and user friendly is a huge leap ahead of everything else in the market sector.
Hmm, ok.
"Phantom on its own will replace your stereo systems, speakers, docking stations and home-cinema. It exceeds them at least 1000 times in terms of sound quality"
Blah. Blah blah blah.
It is an interesting design for sure, but the dumb marketing really puts me off.
And I hate the "order now" button.. 🙄
as an aside, before the signal gets anywhere near this device and is so "purely and accurately reproduced" it is manipulated in innumerable ways by all manner and sorts of recording technology. why this may not be much of an issue for electronicly generated sounds it is worth considering the implications for more traditional musical sources.
if it sounds nice thats fine, but all the hype about "quality" really is just that..
I have heard hi end equipment that is quite soulless and less enjoyable to listen to than many an old radiogram, I do not really know what that means, its just my experience of listening to music 🙂
I can't check the site out at work, can anyone briefly tell me what it is? I'm assuming a speaker that doesn't work on the old coil and cone type system?
Define "impressive sound". Furthermore I would like some clarification of:"Phantom on its own will replace your stereo systems, speakers, docking stations and home-cinema. It exceeds them at least 1000 times in terms of sound quality"
Against what baseline?
"Phantom is unique. It emits sound using a new revolutionary process, according to the absolute rules of acoustic perfection"
Which rules are those then?
"Phantom integrates a unique system producing ultra deep sounds by high pressure beating of its lateral wings".
Er.. you mean the cones go in and out?
There's an awful lot of marketing spiel on their site! But the volume displacement of those bass drivers is huge - 13mm Xmax and dual ~6" cones. That's bass output comparable to what you'd expect from a pair of 3-way floorstanders with 10" bass drivers - from one Phantom! Because the speakers and processing are so tightly tied together the system can compensate for the huge pressure changes inside the enclosure which would otherwise cause very high distortion. And because they move in opposite directions you don't get any cabinet vibrations which would cause more distortion.
The peak power is what matters with this design - RMS long-term power is irrelevant because the voice coils couldn't handle it. If you look at current cutting edge amplifier design amps are no longer designed to produce continuous power which is close to their peak output because music is incredibly dynamic. What they need is sufficient burst length for their moments of full power - any more than that and you've got a bigger power supply and more cooling that you need. To make a heavy cone in a small box move 13mm you need a LOT of peak power.
Anyway, must go, have loudspeakers to design!
[s]Phantom [/s]A hummingbird integrates a unique system producing ultra deep sounds by high pressure beating of its lateral wings.
DrP
hook, line and sinker!
"ultra-dense sound" sounds much better than this terrible normal density sound I usually hear.
most recorded music has a pitiful dynamic range and is normally highly compressed for a variety of reasons.
transient response is more important than peak power.
Always Ultra Thin Long Super Pads absorb 60% faster* and feature Flexi-Wings that flex as you move, helping them to stay put and protect against leaks.
Always Ultra also integrates a unique system producing ultra deep sounds by high pressure beating of its flexi wings.
Buy now...
DrP
rb, as usual in the land of hifi, it's some overpriced tosh.
I base this opinion purely on the guff website, the guff white paper, and massive price and marketing bs.
combined Class A & Class D power amp design - that is genius
disagree, you've been had
~6" cones. That's bass output comparable to what you'd expect from a pair of 3-way floorstanders with 10" bass drivers
do you work for these guys? small cones can't do bass, you just get harmonics. Something to do with physics I hear.
I can't check the site out at work, can anyone briefly tell me what it is? I'm assuming a speaker that doesn't work on the old coil and cone type system?
Still coil and cone (dome in this case). 3-way with coaxial mid/tweeter, impulse compensated side-firing bass drivers, spherical enclosure, fully active with DSP, class A/D hybrid power amp, connects via wifi etc, 24/192, 16-25000Hz +/- 2dB, can be used as one (mono) but if you add more units they go stereo etc etc. No wires in the unit bar the tinsel leads and voice coils!
pass the kleenex!
I like new ways to solve problems.
Is this some kind of tech that will find its way into the everyday market, or is the cost intrinsic to all the processing and tech inside?
ah yes, the normal STW 'lets bash it, its different and we dont like change, mehhhh!
If the world evolved in line with the opinions set out in this forum, we would still be dragging our knuckles in a muddy field with a horse and cart!
if it doesn't have a cats eye I'm out 😆
[i]If the world evolved in line with the opinions set out in this forum, we would still be dragging our knuckles in a muddy field with a horse and cart! [/i]
I quite like the Henry Ford quote;
"If I just asked people what they wanted we'd have ended up with a faster horse."
so now we sit in traffic jams and cities are poisonous filthy places
yea for mindless progress and innovation
[i]so now we sit in traffic jams and cities are poisonous filthy places [/i]
they were as bad before motor vehicles arrived;
Sorry for the long bit of text but it's interesting :)}
[i]By the late 1800s, large cities all around the world were “drowning in horse manure". In order for these cities to function, they were dependent on thousands of horses for the transport of both people and goods.
In 1900, there were over 11,000 hansom cabs on the streets of London alone. There were also several thousand horse-drawn buses, each needing 12 horses per day, making a staggering total of over 50,000 horses transporting people around the city each day.
To add to this, there were yet more horse-drawn carts and drays delivering goods around what was then the largest city in the world.
This huge number of horses created major problems. The main concern was the large amount of manure left behind on the streets. On average a horse will produce between 15 and 35 pounds of manure per day, so you can imagine the sheer scale of the problem. The manure on London’s streets also attracted huge numbers of ?ies which then spread typhoid fever and other diseases.
Each horse also produced around 2 pints of urine per day and to make things worse, the average life expectancy for a working horse was only around 3 years. Horse carcasses therefore also had to be removed from the streets. The bodies were often left to putrefy so the corpses could be more easily sawn into pieces for removal.
The streets of London were beginning to poison its people.
But this wasn’t just a British crisis: New York had a population of 100,000 horses producing around 2.5m pounds of manure a day.
This problem came to a head when in 1894, The Times newspaper predicted... “In 50 years, every street in London will be buried under nine feet of manure.”
This became known as the ‘Great Horse Manure Crisis of 1894’.
The terrible situation was debated in 1898 at the world’s first international urban planning conference in New York, but no solution could be found. It seemed urban civilisation was doomed.
However, necessity is the mother of invention, and the invention in this case was that of motor transport. Henry Ford came up with a process of building motor cars at affordable prices. Electric trams and motor buses appeared on the streets, replacing the horse-drawn buses.
By 1912, this seemingly insurmountable problem had been resolved; in cities all around the globe, horses had been replaced and now motorised vehicles were the main source of transport and carriage.
Even today, in the face of a problem with no apparent solution, people often quote 'The Great Horse Manure Crisis of 1894', urging people not to despair, something will turn up![/i]
the normal STW 'lets bash it, its different and we dont like change, mehhhh!
ah, the normal STW 'its shiny and new and must be better and anyone who says different is an ape, duhhhh'
what have i done! Mods, please close this before it ends in WW3!
From a business perspective it's quite nice to be able to go, "that's it, we're definitely going to leave the hi-fi sector alone - pro-sound and musical instrument amplification only!"
good choice chiefgrooveguru - unless MrWoppit buys a bass you should be safe 😉
So it's not even stereo then?
By 1912, this seemingly insurmountable problem had been resolved; in cities all around the globe, horses had been replaced and now motorised vehicles are the main [b]source of the problem[/b].
precisely! 🙂
it's progress, but sideways 🙂
do you work for these guys? small cones can't do bass, you just get harmonics. Something to do with physics I hear.
You're 100% wrong. Small cones can absolutely do bass (if they couldn't then headphones wouldn't work). However to do bass in a larger space at a reasonable SPL then you need to move air! A 5" driver with 12mm Xmax (linear excursion) will do as much bass as a 10" driver with 3mm Xmax (that's on the good side for hi-fi).
Have a read of this - this is for a single driver subwoofer but it relates directly because it too uses an high excursion and relatively small driver squeezed into an undersized box and then using EQ (in this case a Linkwitz Transform) to get the desired frequency response:
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/thor-estim.htm