“I think we have to accept that there is no way to do this without annoying people.”
The most stupid thing I’ve ever read. Anyone that thinks this is part of the problem.
I agree with the person saying we need to take the boardman approach of quiet, sustained, sensible conversation in the right places with people who have authority to make decisions.
and if you have spare cash, donate it to Sustrans.
The most stupid thing I’ve ever read.
I think you'll find the most stupid was on page one....
Disruption and inconvenience are used to break down barriers and encourage the conversation
Personally I find the moment after I have deliberately inconvenienced someone (for no other reason unlike the school bike bus above where the inconvenience is the byproduct not the main objective) is the moment they are most receptive to considering my point of view. don't you?
I’m not so sure. There maybe more groups*, but are there more people? One does not conflate automatically to the other. I’d have thought the number of people involved in active protest was a marker for the state of the nation, not the number of groups they are fractured into.
A fair point. I'm not a protester or activist, I ride bicycles in and out of towns and I'm aware of both good and terrible cycling infrastructure in a few areas.
You're right all that most of us seem to be going off of is perceptions based on media coverage and extrapolating a national picture from what amounts to just a few snippets.
Take this "Cycling Rebellion" story for example the only real facts it relates are that a chap in Bournemouth is starting a cycling focussed active travel campaign group, it is/will be a branch off from XR, they would like to make their campaign national, they intend to use CM style protest tactics. What isn't started is the current number of members, how they have/intend to interact with existing campaign groups and other stakeholders (locally and nationally) and if CM rides are the extent of their campaign tactics or one of many...
It is light on details but was still enough to trigger a few people immediately. I'd reserve judgement, like I said I share their key goal, but we ain't seen them DO anything yet.
Thinking about it further the wider picture of cycling infrastructure is a patchwork, down to our mish mash of LAs, politicians and town planners. Different regions and towns are better and worse.
Motivating change ultimately needs 'carrots' and 'sticks' wielded more at a local level (IMO), CM is one option if you're looking for a stick there are others of course...
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The most stupid thing I’ve ever read. Anyone that thinks this is part of the problem.
I agree with the person saying we need to take the boardman approach of quiet, sustained, sensible conversation in the right places with people who have authority to make decisions.
LMFAO.
You think local councillors have anyones interests but their own in mind? There are some that care but they are few and far between, you can write as many polite letters as you like but they'll likely just be filed in the memory hole.
You think local councillors have anyones interests but their own in mind?
I don't know where on earth you've got this impression about local councillor's. Have you ever met any? It certainly doesn't sound like it.
I know a few of ours around here and they're the nicest people you'll ever meet and absolutely work their arses off to try and make peoples lives better in the local community, giving up a lot of time, all of it unpaid
You're aware that national politics and the clowns in Westminster are not even remotely like what goes on at a local level? Its not really partisan and yaa-boo and involves some good people doing their very best against a backdrop of 13 years of having their budgets slashed to ribbons, seriously limiting their ability to get done what they'd like to
you can write as many polite letters as you like but they’ll likely just be filed in the memory hole.
Why not have a chat with them and see? Instead of just cynically writing them all off? If they're anything like ours, then you'll find them very receptive and willing to see what it is they can do to help.
Yes I have met a fair few local Councillors. Corruption and coverup are their main traits. Edinburgh is perhaps one of the worst mind you
Massive coverup and huge waste of money over the Statutory notice scandal. Huge coverup of at best murky goings on in the bits that look after children. Harrassment and legal action taken against whistleblowers
Thats just two where criminal activity has been covered up. Funnily enough the only party with clean hands in Edinburgh is the tories - but only because they were not in power during the scandals
Binners - councilors are paid and well paid are they not?
Edit - just looked - salaries only in Scotland and its not as good as I thought
Yes I have met a fair few local Councillors. Corruption and coverup are their main traits.
Thats the polar opposite of my experience
Binners – councilors are paid and well paid are they not?
No, they're not payed at all, never mind paid well.
It sounds like theres an awful lot of misconceptions here about the reality of being a local councillor
Perhaps getting a little off topic but the Sheffield tree scandal is another example of councillors not listening, actively covering up and in fact being overcome by the power of protest
In the dealings I have had with local labour councilors, I have found some to be hard working and commited individuals and at least one who in my opinion is a total waste of space.
The problem with the roads a lots of people are ignoring is that they are not all under the control of the local council. The roads in Cheshire have a significant number of people who drive badly and in a country lane it's unlikley anybody is going to build a bike lane.
Binners =- see my edit - they are paid fulltime employees in Scotland. I didn't realise they were not in England
As I said I have had a lot of dealings with Edinburgh council and corruption and coverup is the rule
There are certain councils that are infamous, I know. Liverpool is renowned as being about as bent as it gets. Completely corrupt. Maybe it’s a big city thing?
I still think it’s the exception rather than the rule, though. It’s just doesn’t seem to be the case at a smaller, more local level. Certainly not in my experience, where I’ve encountered honest, decent, hard-working people with the best of intentions
The point I’ve been trying to make all through this thread is that there’s more to be achieved through collaborating with local democratic organisations, as opposed to taking an aggressive, confrontational stance which just pisses people off
Or at least try the former before resorting to the latter, as you might well be pleasantly surprised with the reception you get
I don’t know where on earth you’ve got this impression about local councillor’s. Have you ever met any? It certainly doesn’t sound like it.
I know a few of ours around here and they’re the nicest people you’ll ever meet and absolutely work their arses off to try and make peoples lives better in the local community, giving up a lot of time, all of it unpaid
You’re aware that national politics and the clowns in Westminster are not even remotely like what goes on at a local level? Its not really partisan and yaa-boo and involves some good people doing their very best against a backdrop of 13 years of having their budgets slashed to ribbons, seriously limiting their ability to get done what they’d like to
I'm absolutely aware that local parties aren't necessarily the people sent to Westminster. I say not necessarily as where do you think the landslide SNP stock came from?
Anyway, in my experience it's exactly the same bickering and playground nonsense as those above, we have a Labour councillor in our ward who is a right nasty piece of work as was the Green hopeful. Our independent is alright, nice guy but still a vote chaser, God forbid you make a road behind a couple of shops with barely enough room to drive down pedestrian only, where would the shopkeepers park all day (then moan that closing to traffic would harm business)?
So yeah, bully for you, good Infrastructure and people in it for everyone else. It's almost like one size doesn't fit all eh?
