Cycling Rebellion!

Nice aims of more infrastructure but following extinction rebellion is not productive.

God help us, especially if they act like the 'stop oil' lot. Screwed we are (as cyclists). Even more hatred.

Fantastic! Another bunch of trustafarian bell ends pissing everyone off and claiming to do so in the name of 'cyclists'

Just what we need 🙄

is this not exactly what critical mass do already?

Usual bunch of anti social weirdos.

Critical mass does nothing but cause aggression from motorists towards cyclists.

Yep, getting behind CyclingUK as an existing and well-regarded campaign organisation for promoting cycling would be preferable IMO...

Another bunch of trustafarian bell ends pissing everyone off and claiming to do so in the name of ‘cyclists’

I agree it could do more harm than good, but this trust fund crap is just propaganda made up by the likes of Farage

but this trust fund crap is just propaganda made up by the likes of Farage

It really isn't. I wouldn't have the faintest idea what Nigel Farage and co think about them.

They regularly have the representatives of these mind-blowingly stupid organisations on five live whenever they've pulled their latest brainless act. They are, without exception, called Lavinia Crumpton-Smythe or Sebastian Parker-Bowles and speak with the tones that only the most expensive private education can buy

Bunch of ****s!

Oh great, I've already pretty much given up road riding (on my own anyway) as I don't like being on road with the general attitude and competance of a lot of drivers these days. I really hope this short of shit doesn't make it any worse.

Sorry, I don't listen to posh people unless they're in government/media.

speak with the tones that only the most expensive private education can buy

I don’t listen to posh people

Now ya see - this ^ kind of attitude is what's going to stop it happening and part of the reason these groups exist.

Disruption and inconvenience are used to break down barriers and encourage the conversation.

There appear to be a few 'barriers' appearing even among cyclists :o)

There appear to be a few ‘barriers’ appearing even among cyclists

Probably because it's not really been an 'us v them', just different people on bikes as a mode of transport or lesiure; we don't belong to a homogeneous group.

Disruption and inconvenience are used to break down barriers and encourage the conversation really, really piss people off who are just trying to go about their daily business and have got enough problems as it is.

FTFY

There appear to be a few ‘barriers’ appearing even among cyclists :o)

😉

I'm not!

Disruption and inconvenience are used to break down barriers and encourage the conversation.

I suspect more likely to have the opposite effect: reinforce division and entrench viewpoints!  With the current government (and potentially their successor scared of the media) there's a good chance that legislative reform will be used to prevent obstruction of the highway by bicycles like gluing yourself to the road.  Don't be surprised if the actually result of this is not more cycle infrastructure, but laws requiring you not ride on the road where infrastructure is provided (even if its shit).

So out of interest if campaign groups just entrench division blah blah blah how do people who want to campaign and effect change do so without upsetting the stw, Audi driving IT consultant set?

@binners, with all due respect, I hung out in these kind of cirles for a decade and you are just going off anecdotal media appearances

All well educated and middle class? Mostly, yes

All unemployed and living off trust funds? Absolutely not -- that'll be the Tory's kids living off various forms of passive income

Here's some of the things my friends in Leeds would do aside from critical mass:

> Run the local bike repair coop
> Run a local NGO educating taxi drivers about road safety, specifically with cyclists in mind
> Do the local school run -- i.e. not for the own kids, but as the marshall guiding tens of kids home from school in high-viz
> Work for local NGOs supporting refugees
> Or work in what is to my mind very difficult youth work

All of which is work with pitiful wages

I went on a critical mass once -- I thought it was a terrible idea and I never did it again

But the idea that all these protestors are unemployed upper class elites is a myth that I at least first heard Farage spout

So, @legometeorology, have you met this Bournemouth group and are you familiar with many of the individual members other activities, or are you going off anecdotal media appearances?

So, @legometeorology, have you met this Bournemouth group and are you familiar with many of the individual members other activities, or are you going off anecdotal media appearances?

I'm going off my experience of people involved with extinction rebellion, critical mass, occupy, climate camp, and local activist groups, mostly in Leeds but also London and Bristol and prob other places

I've no specific experience with the Bournemouth group, but if you have any evidence that they are significantly different from the wider UK culture I'm more than happy to be corrected?

Honestly though, this is a distraction

I've already said I have major concerns about the tactics of things like critical mass, and that's the point of this thread. So if people want to complain about these tactics I'm obviously not going to be rushing to the defense of anyone

There's just no need to also attack activists' character with right-wing myths. Especially when these myths are a much better description of the kids of these right-wing elites

They regularly have the representatives of these mind-blowingly stupid organisations on five live whenever they’ve pulled their latest brainless act. They are, without exception, called Lavinia Crumpton-Smythe or Sebastian Parker-Bowles and speak with the tones that only the most expensive private education can buy

The only organiser quoted in that article is called, Adam Osman. And I'm sure you'll agree, 'Adam' is the sort of name only a poncy trustafarian ****er would have 😉

So out of interest if campaign groups just entrench division blah blah blah how do people who want to campaign and effect change do so without upsetting the stw, Audi driving IT consultant set?

You can be a campaign group without taking the extinction rebellion route. You can raise awareness influence policy, improve things. It may be slow but it works while extinction rebellion just turns people off the casue.

anagallis_arvensisFull Member
So out of interest if campaign groups just entrench division blah blah blah how do people who want to campaign and effect change do so without upsetting the stw, Audi driving IT consultant set?

The Extinction Rebellion / Just Stop Oil / Insulate Britain and others have all clearly been wonderfully successful of recent years bringing a large proportion of the population on board and galvanising wider society together to force UK Govt to act, so, sure let's just have more of that sort of behaviour.

I'm sure the Daily Mail/ Telegraph / Express will have headlines that make the summer of love pail in comparison to the outpouring of love they will extol to the new cycling pressure group.

As a result I'm sure white van man will be doing secret Santa and handing out gifts to random cyclists in time for Christmas. There will be hoards of people burning their BMW's in favour of Bromptons. Cities will turn traffic free and bicycle only in time for spring next year.

There's not a shred of possibility that this could possibly increase acrimonious feeling from drivers towards existing cyclists and to imagine that this could possibly lead to more dangerous roads is clearly fanciful.

@doris5000 - the Adam’s of this world have a lot to answer for, not just Adam Sandler films

‘Adam’ is the sort of name only a poncy **** would have

Oi, I resemble that remark!

As many of you know I work for an outdoor / environmental education organisation. Founded in part with Sir David, and trying our best to connect kids to nature, health and wellbeing, better education etc.

We've recently become the target of one of these eco-protest organisations. Thier tactics are nasty, personal and sustained. They refuse to speak with us direct or meet, but are happy to harass our funders and spread lies publicly.

To confirm the trope above, the founder is Jemima and speaks really poshly....

You can be a campaign group without taking the extinction rebellion route. You can raise awareness influence policy, improve things.

Sorry you haven't really said how do they raise awareness influence policy and improve things?

The Extinction Rebellion / Just Stop Oil / Insulate Britain and others have all clearly been wonderfully successful of recent years bringing a large proportion of the population on board and galvanising wider society together to force UK Govt to act, so, sure let’s just have more of that sort of behaviour.........ad neuseium

So I'll repeat my question how can change be affected without annoying people, any examples of where a strongly worded petition or whatever has had a really impact? Is that how the suffraggetes should have done it?

So I’ll repeat my question how can change be affected without annoying people, any examples of where a strongly worded petition or whatever has had a really impact? Is that how the suffraggetes should have done it?

I’ll turn it round and ask you to show 3 positive outcomes from any of the environmental protesters in the last 5 years? Something that has actually effected change / more positive outcome for the environment towards slowing the impact on climate change. And “awareness“ doesn’t count.

From my perspective, for the last near on 15 years I’ve been working with what used to be one of the country’s biggest energy consumers. Initially I was working with industrial scale energy efficiency and load management to drive down costs their demand. I’m now pushing ahead with a staggering volume of renewables. We’re on track to go carbon neutral by 2030 and we should be able to go Carbon negative shortly after.

what I have seen since these eco protestors came to the fore around 5 years ago, is a hardening of opinion against what we’re looking to achieve. They are actual having the opposite effect that they state they want - I see it every week. I’d love to see their financing - they have been so successful at being counter productive I would not be surprised if it was found that they are being funded from some dubious places.

So you ask how they can affect change without gluing their hands to the roads - the answer is dull and involved hard work - it’s to get skilled and go and work in the industry and make a positive change and help build a more sustainable society. But it is easier just to throw a tantrum and tell others to do the hard stuff.

I’ll turn it round and ask you to show 3 positive outcomes from any of the environmental protesters in the last 5 years?

Er....

I’m now pushing ahead with a staggering volume of renewables.

That hardening of opposition, I expect it also has had the same affect on the other side of the fence.

I'll ask again, how can campaigners do anything that doesn't upset the stw, IT consultant Audi drivers?

What campaigns have ever affected serious change without upsetting people?

Extinction Rebellion don't upset me, don't inconvenience me and don't need to show me the error of my ways, they upset those who need upsetting. The hardening of sides is what they want. It galvanised both sides.

It's the same on here whenever people go on strike, loads of moaning about it inconveniencing people...that's the bloody point. Train drivers, doctors, nurses, teachers take action that annoys people and yet it works.

**edit -

on second thoughts, not going to waste my evening or a pointless argument

what I have seen since these eco protestors came to the fore around 5 years ago, is a hardening of opinion against what we’re looking to achieve

Which is odd as there has been a significant and permanent positive shift in polling with regards to the publics concern about the environment and climate in the last five years

they upset those who need upsetting.

What, like people just trying to get to work?

Yeah… really sticking it to ‘The Man’ there! 🙄

So I’ll repeat my question how can change be affected without annoying people, any examples of where a strongly worded petition or whatever has had a really impact? Is that how the suffraggetes should have done it?

There appears to be an awful lot of ignorance about the suffragette campaign, they didn’t just annoy people. It is also debatable whether their campaign was actually the thing which gained women the vote. After all their actions stopped in 1914
This for example.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffragette_bombing_and_arson_campaign
Are you suggesting this is what cyclists/environmentalists should do?

Which is odd as there has been a significant and permanent positive shift in polling with regards to the publics concern about the environment and climate in the last five years

That’s down to watching what seems like constant footage of wildfires and witnessing temperatures hitting 40 degrees in Wigan rather than some nobhead called Rupert glueing himself to a motorway bridge on the M25

https://davewalker.com/climate-extremists/

I think the pressure and activist groups serve a far greater purpose than any of the establishment political parties .More power to their elbow.

So, other than a sternly worded petition no one has any idea how people should protest without annoying people?

Why protest at all? Why not engage with people in a less confrontational manner?

Have a read of the ‘Keeper of the Peak’ article in this months mag, which features a certain forum member.

That’s a prime example of positive engagement to achieve positive results

But attending boring meetings with the local council and filling out a lot of forms isn’t something you can retweet a short video about with some suitably pithy slogans, as it’s not very exciting.

It does, however, get results because that’s how the world actually works

So, other than a sternly worded petition no one has any idea how people should protest without annoying people?

As I stated above.  Rather than protest, get skilled in an area and actually work to design and build the future you want to see. Don’t tell other people to do something, do something yourself.

From an engineering perspective, I see a lot of job opportunities and meet a lot of clever, driven people who are out there actually doing something.

but it’s easier to whine, have a tantrum and tell other people to do the hard stuff.

If things need to change actually get involved in the things that effect the change. Get involved in renewables research, education, implementation, policy etc, etc. All the opportunities and budgets are out there to do so but that is actually difficult and it's easier to just shout about it in the street and turn people against you.

It's like the people that whinge about local councils. If you don't like it become a counsellor and start to actually influence change.

Be the change you want to see not just shout about how bad the current situation is.

On topic; If Mr Osman actually gave up his time to volunteer for BH Active Travel in applying for grants, infrastructure planning and active travel education that would be a much more productive use of his time in achieving his goals.

Edit: beaten to it by binners and scruff 🙂

Protests do get things done and can be much more effective than trying not to offend.  Many examples from history.

A protest that inconveniences no one can be easily ignored.

Did you read that on a poster in the common room?

KInder scout trespass
Sufragettes
Fall of Berlin wall
Greenham common

Etc etc etc

You reckon the Berlin wall came down because of protests?

Really?

Nothing to do with a collapsing economic orthodoxy?

You think that the cruise missiles were removed from Greenham Common because of protests?

Nothing to do with years of negotiations which resulted in bilateral nuclear disarmament agreements?

Seriously?