All kicked off at Crufts again this year after the abomination that is the Kennel Club allowing the breeding standard of the German Shepherd to get this far!!
The video shows too deformed dogs that seem unhappy and barely able to walk winning best in class. 8 years ago the breeding standards of this GSD were bought into question and by the looks of it nothing has been done! KC is now backtracking after all the criticism but you only need to look at all the other so called show standards of working dogs (fat labs, ridgebacks being deformed etc) and realise that something is going seriously wrong.
I always though the KC were trying to help dogs but their continued support of this beauty pageant could seriously harm there credibility.
Disgusting the KC members and Judge that allowed the dog through should be ashamed.
I'm not familiar with German Shepherds. What is the issue with the breeding standard? Is it their hips?
What is being done is downright disgusting. Such beautiful dogs and reduced to this. Pedigree = inbreeding, end of story and unfortunately these abominations are the natural end product. Was out on the hills today with my lab/shepherd/collie cross. Beautiful dog, intelligent, strong, athletic. Everything a dog should be, makes my blood boil to see something like this. ****s!
Dog breeders aren't my favourite people and they all smell of wee.
Basically yes. The new show standard is for a sloping back which apparently is aesthetically pleasing but is causing hip dysplasia and other problems. The breed has just been split in two by the working look and show look
The below article sums it up well
http://www.examiner.com/article/sloping-vs-straight-back-german-shepherds
Iirc they are supposed to be flat blacked but there was a fashion/trend for breeding dogs whose hips were lower than their shoulders with a sloping back. As I understand it this puts undue strain on the hips in a breed that can suffer in this area even in good specimens.
This rewarding of effectively unhealthy dogs as prize winners leads to the trend being bred in to the breed to the detriment of the animals.
To those more knowledgeable does that sum it up roughly?
Something is not right about those hind legs and their curve spines ... 😯
[i]The breed has just been split in two by the working look and show look[/i]
That's not unusual, we've working-breed Spaniels, a Cocker and Springer and they look nothing like the show dogs.
This is completely wrong and exactly why I hate the Kennel Club.
I always though the KC were trying to help dogs
Not trying to inflame your thread but why on earth would you believe that the kennel club are compatible with a dogs health?, their behaviour with regard to selective breeding for a specific look has been absolutely disgusting for countless years, Bulldogs, King Charles Spaniels, Boxer's, etc…the kennel club and breed standards should be outlawed as what they strive to achieve has absolutely nothing to do with ensuring a dog's good health.
I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would think that a dog struggling like that is aesthetically pleasing. It's disabled.
Op - Ridgebacks being deformed ? Please explain.
The dogs in that video are in a shockingly back state! I dont understand how people can own them, and why does the audience sit around like nothing is wrong? Apathetic fools.
Our only Shepherd was put down when her back legs failed. It's absolutley heartbreaking.
I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would think that a dog struggling like that is aesthetically pleasing. It's disabled.
I was going to make a joke about Crufts being the dog Paralympics, then thought better of it and started reading about Crufts and the kennel club, and then discovered there is also a Paracrufts event. Perhaps these should be in that?
Time this type of thing was knocked on the head. The dogs have changed/mutated so much from what they originally looked like.
Op - Ridgebacks being deformed ? Please explain.
http://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/ridge-too-far.html
Someone has to...
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This thread makes me want to break a KC judge's legs then award them best of breed as they drag themselves away. It's so grim. And they probably think they love dogs. I can see maybe aesthetically,that's a nice shape for a dog but not if it doesn't bloody work properly. There's something just incomprehensibly wrong about that sort of calculated cruelty, it's not like kicking a dog or neglecting it, it's actually worse I think 🙁
Regarding the KC I suffered from naivety and lack of exposure to them in all honesty. Grew up with working dogs abroad (falklands & South Africa) where dogs really do work and breeding is only done on proven useful dogs, not by looks!
The KC exposure I have had in the UK has been limited to health/lineage docs from German Pointer breeders who are basically moorland farmers breeding dogs for themselves! Didn't realise the extent of the breed manipulation they have especially within the so called "show" world.
A lot of ridgebacks in the UK have been known to be culled by breeders if they dont show the ridge on their backs to keep standards up apparently. This however is starting to deform the breed as 1 in 20 ridgebacks don't have the ridge naturally and this genetic tweaking of the breed for a bigger ridge is causing issues. In SA knew plenty of ridgebacks without the ridge! Haven't met one here.
bjj.andy.w - Member
Op - Ridgebacks being deformed ?...
I'm interested in the answer to that question too.
I spent a chunk of my childhood in the bush in the middle of Tanganyika. One of the family friends was a hunter and used to come visiting with a Landrover full of ridgebacks (and guns). These dog were large and rangy, and no fat, what you may call "cut", rippling with muscle and scars. I was promised a puppy, but then unfortunately we had to come back to the UK.
Many years later in Oz I was given a pedigree ridgeback with champion parents, and it grew up into what looked to me like a large heavy (55kg) Labrador that just happened to have a ridge. Nothing like the dogs I remembered, and none of the ridgebacks I have seen since are either.
I don't like the dogs with sloping backs - looks too much like a hyena.
The breeders are trying to turn German Shepherds into hyenas.
Meanwhile, scandal reported at crufts Africa as breeders there try to turn hyenas into German Shepherds...
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What's sad is that none of this is new news (I recall theGerman Shepherd outrage in the 1980s) but I'm amazed that, after it was unceremoniously turfed off the BBC because of the breeding practices, it's now back on terrestrial TV within apparently renewed air of legitimacy.
People complain vehemently about the prospect of genetically modified crops, but this level of genetic manipulation in canines is treated with the proverbial blind eye.
ourmaninthenorth - MemberWhat's sad is that none of this is new news (I recall theGerman Shepherd outrage in the 1980s) but I'm amazed that, after it was unceremoniously turfed off the BBC because of the breeding practices, it's now back on terrestrial TV within apparently renewed air of legitimacy.
People complain vehemently about the prospect of genetically modified crops, but this level of genetic manipulation in canines is treated with the proverbial blind eye.
Yes, I seem to remember several years ago the BBC going undercover with breeders and the Kennel Club to highlight the disgusting inbreeding practices going on. That was when they stopped coverage of Crufts and there was a big hoo-ha at the time which has obviously been forgotton now. I haven't watched Crufts since that time either.
We had a German Shepard which was hip scored at the time and she never suffered with the problems described. The breeder we bought her from knew all about it and educated us then what was going on in the dog breeding world. This was over twenty years ago but it's obviously been going on a lot longer than that.
If I was to buy any sort of pedigree dog now I would research things very carefully or probably just buy a bitsa.
It's disgusting it's always 'form before fitness' with the Kennel Club.
This just underlines my comment on the Cavachon dog thread on here, If there's a choice forget the show Kennel and buy from the working kennel.
The coverage last night condemned the decision by the judge and mentioned the previous problems with GSDs and that this practice should stop.
Just watched it and was shocked at the state they were in. Last GS I knew well was owned by a bloke in North Wales Mountain Search & Rescue. It was a monster that was wonderful to behold. Stood on its hind legs and paws on your shoulders before licking you to death. Cant imagine those KC specimens climbing into anything.
You could always email the Kennel Club and let them know what you think.
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/contact-us/
Its thecway there wrists(whatever its called in a dog) of the back legs are collapsed almost to the floor. Disgusting animal cruelty encouraged by the Kennel club.
I used to go to Crufts back in the early 90's, it was a great show back then, even took my two Springers up one year..
But by 96' it'd turned into pooches and modified breeds, harsh breeding programmes and dysfunctional judges.
I've boycotted it and the programme ever since.
We'll never stop their practice for promoting poor health and breeding. There are a committed few in the inner sanctum of the KC that actively promote morphed breeding.
Best thing you can do is boycott the Programme and never go to the shows.
Dog shows n bread standards is a corrupt world that is only fed by demand .
My inlaws used to show Bernese mountain dogs ,they would only pick shows where they said (the judge likes our dogs) in other words a biased judge.
Had many a discussion about it all being a big fix .
I'll stick to my Heinz dogs any day ,loyal n no constant vet bills.
It's just a bunch of narcissists parading their toys in front of each other.
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[quote=Northwind ]Someone has to...
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I bet those GSD at Crufts couldn't do that - horrible practices in the name of "beauty"
I don't understand why they don't just disqualify the judge and the dogs, just stop showing them and then the issue will go away. Breeders will stop breeding the show strain of dogs and let the breed return to how it should be.
Wasn't aware of this, but agree its disgusting.
Was out on the hills today with my lab/shepherd/collie cross. Beautiful dog, intelligent, strong, athletic
I have one of those!!! The way a dog should be, not reduced to prancing about for the vanity of their owner.
Why not email the sponsors and tell them you will be boycotting their products until they end their association with these practises?
they should break the hips/legs of those breeders so they can empathise with the dogs...
How do you actually breed dogs to look like that? I don't understand the practicalities of it. Do they get two dos with slightly slopping back to breed to have puppies with very slopping backs?
@ franksinatra - then repeat that cycle really fast with the one "perfect" example producing offspring with its close relatives and, in the name of weird vanity, a breed is ruined.
EDIT: [url= http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2015/04/02/dog-breeds-1915-vs-2015.aspx ]here's a site whowing how some breeds have changed over the last 100 years, allegedly as a result of selective breeding practices.[/url]
How do you actually breed dogs to look like that? I don't understand the practicalities of it. Do they get two dos with slightly slopping back to breed to have puppies with very slopping backs?
There's a fair chance that those two dogs will be put together, breeding more disabled animals with the owners making a massive amount of money from other shallow, mentally pathetic people who want to do the same.
franksinatra - Member
How do you actually breed dogs to look like that? I don't understand the practicalities of it. Do they get two dos with slightly slopping back to breed to have puppies with very slopping backs?
not exactly, but sort of.
breed enough puppies, and [i]some[/i] of them will have the characteristics you're looking for. some of those will be even more pronounced.
the rest get drowned, for not being the right shape*.
(choosing the parents with the characteristics you're looking for just shortens the odds in your favour a bit - there's still a lot of selection/drowning)
(*which is a constantly moving target: last years show-winning inbred, won't be inbred enough to win the same show next year)
the rest get drowned, for not being the right shape*
The rest get sold as pets.
Selective breeding.. They breed as many animals as they possibly can, get the ones that they think look nice to breed, and discard the rest.
Rince and repeat until you get what you want. The end result is a very small gene pool, so you get a lot of health issues
The best dogs are muts, happy and healthy.
you're right of course, i was hyperbolically emphasizing that 'breeding' is as much about the elimination of individuals that don't pass the selection criteria, as it is about selecting show-winners.
Time this type of thing was knocked on the head. The dogs have changed/mutated so much from what they originally looked like.
What they "originally looked like" before human interference is some sort of now extinct ancient wolf, this is just an extreme example of how all domestic dogs came into existence. We breed dogs to do things that we want, like be good at retrieving prey, or being docile, or looking a certain way, none of which they would do naturally. Breeds have come and gone as fashions changed, or as excessive inbreeding made certain types unviable. It's just part of the history of the domestic dog. Loads of breeds have health issues of various types because of it, a number of studies show that mongrels normally have higher life expectancies, and they're generally only a couple of generations away from a 'breed' dog, so who knows what health benefits undoing millennia of inbreeding could have.
Of course if we took dogs back to what they "originally looked like" then they probably wouldn't be such a great lifestyle accessory. Difficult to take photos of it asleep by the woodburner if it's crapping everywhere and lunging for your face I guess. What you actually want is the correct level of breeding that allows you to have a docile companion or working dog, without looking too much like a freak show on the outside.
