[Closed] Conspiracy Theories that turned out to be true.

John Lydon talks about Jimmy Savile and his 'seediness' during an interview recorded for BBC radio in late 1978, this excerpt was not broadcast but has just been made available as part of the reissue of the first PIL album. Interviewer: Vivienne Goldman.

That there was something massively fishy about Dr David Kelly's death.

It certainly needs an explanation as to why an autopsy should need to remain secret for as long as Hutton decided, and why he made that decision has never been satisfactorily explained.

I know of two Saville whistleblowers, both lost their jobs within days of blowing the whistle, one never worked in nursing again (mates mother). The other ended up in Aus/NZ add it was the only realistic way she would be able to work again.

Hutton +1

[url= http://www.intrepidreport.com/archives/2499 ]Some say Christopher Shale's death is linked to that of Dr. David Kelly
[/url]

A well-placed UK source has informed WMR that the suspicious death of Prime Minister David Cameron’s friend and political adviser, Christopher Shale, found dead in a portable toilet on June 25 at the Glastonbury Festival, was, in fact, a political assassination designed to silence an emerging critic of Conservative Party policies.

Shale was the chairman of the West Oxfordshire Conservative Association. Shale had written a memo containing a scathing attack on Tory policies under Cameron’s leadership. The memo was due to be published in The Mail on Sunday, the day after Shale’s body was found in the toilet.

Cameron later said he was “shocked” by the death of his friend. Shale’s death was alternately described as a “suicide” and heart attack.

However, WMR has been informed that Shale’s suspected disloyalty to the Tories resulted in worries at Number 10 Downing Street that the longtime friend of and adviser to Cameron might have decided talk about a Tory scandal dating from the late 1980s and early 1990s. Cameron visited South Africa in 1989 on a trip financed by the South African armaments company Armscor. It was the same year that South Africa began dismantling its nuclear weapons program.

As South Africa began to transition from apartheid to majority rule in the early 1990s, Shale, a British Army veteran, visited South Africa as part of a UKaid (Department of International Development) mission. After leaving the army, Shale established two companies, SGL Communications and Oxford Resources Ltd. Shale also visited Rwanda on numerous occasions as part of his work for UKaid. There is some evidence that Shale was involved with MI6 activities in Africa.

However, it was Shale’s work in South Africa, establishing links with the African National Congress and other black political parties in an attempt to undo some of the damage resulting from Margaret Thatcher’s support for the apartheid regime, [b]that put him in contact with the British Ministry of Defense scientist charged with overseeing the transfer of South Africa’s nuclear weapons and other nuclear materials to Western hands from South African nuclear weapons stocks at the Pelindaba nuclear research center, near Pretoria. That scientist was Dr. David Kelly, Britain’s foremost authority on weapons of mass destruction[/b], who was found dead from a reported “suicide” near his Oxfordshire home on July 17, 2003.

Kelly had questioned faulty intelligence on Iraq’s alleged weapons of mass destruction, intelligence that was used to justify Britain’s involvement in the invasion and occupation of Iraq. Kelly was said to have committed suicide with an old pocket knife and pain killers, an allegation rejected by a number of British experts and politicians, including Norman Baker, the Liberal Democratic MP for Lewes.

WMR has been informed that [b]Shale became aware of Cameron’s role in trafficking on the international black market of South African nuclear weapons and technology that was entrusted to Britain and the United States by South Africa’s apartheid government[/b], led by President F. W. DeKlerk.

According to more recent information provided to WMR, the three weapons were to be shipped with an additional three nuclear bombs to Chicago for covert storage at a furniture warehouse, a CIA front activity. The fissile material from three South African bombs that made it to Chicago was later extracted at the Argonne National Laboratory, 25 miles southwest of Chicago. However, the three other bombs in Oman ”disappeared” en route to Chicago. The British official who was in charge of the warehousing of the weapons in Oman was David Kelly.

WMR has also learned that the nuclear smuggling operations involved top members of the British Conservative Party, including individuals close to Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher. [b]The Tory party soon received a mystery donation of £17.8 million. The donation was filed with the Tory party’s Fiscal Year 1992 Annual Accounts filed with Companies House. An insider at the Tory party’s Central Office tipped off a Labor Party Member of Parliament, Doug Hoyle, about the mystery donations to Tory MPs.[/b] It turned out that one of the Tory MPs in question was Tim Smith. [Smith resigned after he was discovered to have accepted cash payments from Mohamed Al-Fayad, the former owner of Harrod’s and the ex-brother-in-law of international arms trafficker and Iran-contra principal Adnan Khashoggi.]

Being as it's hard to confirm all of the information in that piece using mainstream sources, it should perhaps be in the other thread, as it hasn't been proven true, however this from the Guardian:

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/jun/26/christopher-shale-glastonbury-festival-memo ]Christopher Shale received warning of leaked memo before Glastonbury death [/url]

suggests there is truth in the leaked memo.

Furthermore, this from [url= http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199293/cmhansrd/1993-06-22/Debate-4.html ]Hansard on the 22nd June 1993[/url] shows there is truth in the mystery £17.8 million

Mr. Doug Hoyle (Warrington, North) : I have never heard such synthetic anger as that demonstrated by the Secretary of State for Employment. He had nothing to say and no information to give us. We still do not know in whose pockets the Tories are. The right hon. Gentleman threw no light on the sources of Tory party funds. I can only hope that, when it is the turn of the right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield (Sir N. Fowler), the chairman of the Conservative party, a little more information will be given to the House. The debate is about the secretive and sleazy way in which the Tory party is funded. It is about the unique way in which honours fall on company chairmen who give to the Tory party. It is also about the very curious case of Mr. Asil Nadir and the help that he has received from Conservative Members.

No answer was given by the Secretary of State. Indeed, he demonstrated to us, once again, that the Tories are afraid to reveal the sources of the funds that pour into their coffers. Can the Secretary of State tell us why the Tories published their accounts until 1979, since when those accounts have not been published? It is interesting that that change came about.

Mr. Tim Smith (Beaconsfield) rose --

Mr. Hoyle : If the hon. Gentleman will allow me, I shall tell him what information is now given to us. We understand the expenditure and what Tory central office receives. In 1992, central office received £20.7 million. [b]When we asked about that and about company donations, the Tory party told us to look at company accounts. I repeat : in 1992, the Tories received £20.7 million. When the records were checked by Companies house, only £2.9

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million was shown in company accounts. That means that there is a deficit of £17.8 million. We want to know where that £17.8 million came from.
[/b]
Mr. Tim Smith : The hon. Gentleman has made the suggestion about the accounts of the Conservative party that was made by a member of the Select Committee last week : that no accounts had been published between 1979 and 1983. They were published, and I undertook to send copies to the Select Committee.

Mr. Hoyle : I gave way to the hon. Gentleman because [b]I expected him to tell me where the difference of £17.8 million came from. I shall give way again to him. I am told that he is a treasurer of the Conservative party. I give way to him now so that he can stand up and tell us where the £17.8 million came from. Does the hon. Gentleman care to do that? I am waiting. I do not think that we shall get the information from the horse's mouth. We certainly did not get it from the Secretary of State.[/b]

Matters are worse than that. According to Business Age, £71 million has been donated in this way since 1985. [Laughter.] I hear Conservative Members laughing. I am quite prepared to sit down and to let one of them get up and tell us where the money came from. No. That has finished it now. The lager louts have finished for today. Mr. Ashby rose

Mr. Hoyle : No--there is one left.

Mr. Ashby : Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this marvellous magazine Business Age is really the "Hello" of business publications? It talked about Sarawak as a desert kingdom, when it is in Borneo.

Mr. Hoyle : That is a very useful piece of information, which has added to my knowledge. [b]Does the hon. Gentleman now care to tell us, taking just 1992, where the almost £18 million that is unaccounted for came from?[/b] We know that the funding--

Mr. Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley) : This is boring.

Mr. Hoyle : It may be boring, but it is nevertheless true. In fact, it is not boring to my colleagues, because we should like a little light shone on the matter. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman can help us.

Mr. Mike O'Brien (Warwickshire, North) : As a member of the Select Committee on Home Affairs, I have to tell my hon. Friend that he is being very unfair to as on the Conservative Board of Finance and who represented 84 constituencies. He said :

"Over £67 million of expenditure was recorded by the Conservative Party in my fours years on the Committee, but no one had to account for a penny of it to the Conservative Board of Finance nor to any other elected body."

Conservative Members do not know the answers ; nor does anyone else.

Mr. Hoyle : I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention. Perhaps only two people know where the funding came from. One is Lord McAlpine, whom the unfortunate President of the Board of Trade apparently saw on his visit to Venice. I join the Secretary of State for Employment in hoping that the right hon. Gentleman has

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a speedy and full recovery and is soon back in the House. However, the President of the Board of Trade visited Lord McAlpine, and Lord McAlpine is one of the men who knows.

The other person is perhaps someone to whom my right hon. Friend the Member for Derby, South (Mrs. Beckett) referred--Sir Brian Wyldbore-Smith. He is apparently a director of the Conservative Board of Finance--a curious name, but a curious job, too. Apparently, Sir Brian used private addresses to receive cheques--they were not sent directly to central office. They were made out to him personally, eventually passed on and often paid into an offshore account in Jersey, a tax haven.

They eventually landed at central office with Lord McAlpine, whose office, I understand, was always kept locked except when he was in it, so that the secrets could not be given to the rank and file or to members of the Cabinet. Therefore, my hon. Friend the Member for Warwickshire, North (Mr. O'Brien) is right to say that Conservative Members do not know where the funding came from.

I fully expected the Secretary of State to tell us about foreign backers, as that is what part of the debate is about. Why did we not hear about the foreign business people who poured money into the Conservative party's coffers? Why did we not hear a bit about what came from all the trips made to Hong Kong, the 16 occasions when Tory fund raisers went there with Ministers?

Of course, the overall conspiracy is still unverified, so perhaps should not be in this thread, but it remains relevant to the Dr David Kelly case.

To my knowledge, no conclusive answers as to the origins of the additional £17.8 million in Tory Party funds have ever been forthcoming.

Googling 'David Cameron David Kelly South Africa' brings up swathes of information on the matter.

Come on Jive, no ones reading all that. Just give us the synopsis via Meme, everyone loves that shit!

Oh, go on then...

[img] ?w=700[/img]

[img] [/img]

Not this shit again?

Is this the cargo ship with the secret cargo of nuclear bombs for SA?

Complete and utter bollocks!

Fair enough, perhaps you'd be kind enough to explain:

That there was something massively fishy about Dr David Kelly's death.

Records of his autopsy/post mortem recently ordered to be kept secret for 88 years.

and

no conclusive answers as to the origins of the additional £17.8 million in Tory Party funds have ever been forthcoming.

seeing as we're linking Guardian coverage JHJ, surely then you must have come across this article which basically says the man died of natural causes?

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/sep/27/christopher-shale-died-natural-causes ]Not very suspicious after all[/url]

Fair enough, Dr David Kelly probably just committed suicide then, after all, that's what the Hutton Inquiry found

And Saddam must've had WMDs after all, it was reported in the media, right?

Perhaps the mystery £17.8 million donation to the Conservatives was from popular BBC celebrity Jimmy Savile's fundraising exploits for the public good...

Or they just might not be linked, and David Kelly's death is still suspicious?

The least credible element of the South African bomb plot is the suggestion Mark Thatcher could successfully execute anything...

Or they just might not be linked, and David Kelly's death is still suspicious?

They may or may not be linked, but such allegations should be thoroughly investigated, wouldn't you agree?

As I've said, it is by no means conclusive (much like the conjecture surrounding Dr David Kelly's death), however, if the current Prime Minister was indeed mired in dark scandals which endanger us all, shouldn't we be informed on such matters?

What is your take on the mystery £17.8 million?

How about the circumstances surrounding Dr David Kelly's death?

The least credible element of the South African bomb plot is the suggestion Mark Thatcher could successfully execute anything...

It always strikes me as odd how all these incomptetant buffoons still manage to remain in extremely wealthy and powerful positions, avoiding prosecution for any dodgy dealings along the way, considering all the conjecture at their ineptitude.

As I've said, it is by no means conclusive

really? that's one way of looking at it. Other's might say it's wildly speculative! 😆

Let me know when you're in the mood for answering questions instead of cherrypicking 😉

What is your take on the mystery £17.8 million?

Since we've (speculated) they may not be linked, I'll keep them is seperate quotes...

How about the circumstances surrounding Dr David Kelly's death?

It always strikes me as odd how all these incomptetant buffoons still manage to remain in extremely wealthy and powerful positions, avoiding prosecution for any dodgy dealings along the way, considering all the conjecture at their ineptitude

All your ramblings are about secret networks helping each other out whilst committing crime and now you seem to be confused as to how the PM's son [ and the offspring of other rich and influential people] can get away with being idiots. 😯
Next you will be asking why the Queens sons do so well despite not being the most capable of individuals

At least try and be consistent with your arguing eh

All Bran and prunes are supposed to help with consistency...

Let me know when you're in the mood for answering questions instead of cherrypicking

Why do I have to answer your questions, these aren't my allegations, they're yours.

I'm not familiar with the inner workings of donations to the Tories 20 years ago TBH, so I've no view on it. but at a cursory glance i'd say just because one thing happened (some unsubstantiated bollocks about SA nuclear weapons) does not mean that the second thing is linked (unsubstantiated funds turning up)

What about the circumstances around Kelly's death?

What about the circumstances around Kelly's death?

From your previous response, you obviously think there is more to the case...

It certainly needs an explanation as to why an autopsy should need to remain secret for as long as Hutton decided, and why he made that decision has never been satisfactorily explained.

So explain what motives you believe led to Dr David Kelly's death...

(there is of course the option of multiple motives and multiple parties being involved)

I thought my original response pretty much sums it up TBH, some doctors have [b]speculated*[/b] that it would be difficult to kill ones self in the way that Dr Kelly managed. The autopsy which would (presumably) tell them in some more detail what happened has been locked away for a longer time that is normal, and Hutton has declined to explain why he's made that decision.

Let me know if I haven't explained myself to your satisfaction though.

*I've emboldened that word because I'll add this. Give two clinicians a set of symptoms of the simplest disease and they WILL argue the toss about what's wrong with the patient. It [b]does[/b] mean that some doctors disagree about the cause, it [b]doesn't[/b] mean that they think the death was suspicious.

Given the vastness of the universe and our infancy in beginning to understand such matters, from the tiniest particles to the largest galaxies, speculation is an inherent part of the human condition.

Its very healthy all told, unlike blindly accepting things.

[quote=jivehoneyjive opined]All Bran and prunes are supposed to help with consistency...

You are nowhere near as funny or as bright as you think you are

You change your principles to suit the topic

I'm a human being, I do as I do... deal with it, or be gone

As its impossible to debate with an idiot I will be gone.

Excellent!!

unlike blindly accepting things.

Oh the irony of it all!

Oh the irony of it all!

The difference is, we already know politicians are liars and the arms industry has deep ties to the political elite.

It could be entirely true, it could be mostly true, or it may just contain some truths, such as the £17.8 million...

Not sure of the quality of the website but I think most of these cases are pretty well-documented by actual released intelligence agency files etc.

http://theantimedia.org/10-conspiracy-theories-that-turned-out-to-be-true/

My mates mum was a foster carer up to the early 00s. She was well aware of the saville thing.

A fridnd of mine spent some time in a care home in Wrexham. Not Bryn Estyn but the rumours of what was going on were rife and even the staff talked about it. We used to think he was spinning a yarn but looks like he was on the money.

There is an audio clip of Jerry Sadowitc talking about the Cleveland child abuse scandal investigation. Says they should call in the expert - Jimmy Saville.

NSFW.

http://www.hmsfriday.com/2012/10/12/jerry-sadowitz-on-jimmy-savile-back-in-1988/

My cousin has been a nurse at Stoke Mandeville for 30 years. She's always hated Saville. Now we know why. If only she and others had spoken up sooner and been taken seriously.

Here's one I mentioned a while back...

turns out the Church and Her Majesty's Canadian Government were indeed taking indigenous children into boarding schools, where they were physically and sexually abused, malnourished and deliberately infected with disease.

Will allegations that the Queen and Prince Philip abducted children from one of these schools in Kamloops in 1964 also prove to be true?

The Scottish Independence Referendum was rigged.

Do you think they're true?

Go on then jivebunny give us a clue.... I'm guessing not but you may say otherwise.... just a guess

Your mum

Ah a fellow fantasist/nutjob has turned up

Your mum turned out to be true, I for one was shocked..

How does that make me a nut job pray tell? Unless you are telling us that your mum was not in fact a conspiracy as I suspected?
I expect you to back your claims up with evidence

(the fact that I fantasise about your mum is neither here nor there btw)

[i]Go on then jivebunny give us a clue[/i]

please don't.

You've been on the pot again fella
C'mon Jive tell us the truth the suspense is too much

Your mum's been on the pot again

jivehoneyjive - Member
Let me know when you're in the mood for answering questions instead of cherrypicking

jivehoneyjive - Member
I'm a human being, I do as I do... deal with it, or be gone