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its something that has barely any impact on two Sunday mornings a year
Actually it has quite an impact on heath. Allegedly.
Well as I’m currently on a 13hr for the price of 12 night shift, I’d heartily support abolishing the stupid rule. Grrrrr
This time change is the one I like the least. I've been sat in the front room since 5, and can't make noise for an extra hour!
Curse my inability to have a lay in.
Well as I’m currently on a 13hr for the price of 12 night shift
What's preventing you from leaving after 12 hours? That doesn't seem right/fair.
What’s preventing you from leaving after 12 hours? That doesn’t seem right/fair.
You can’t it based on finish time not hours completed, it’s seen as beyond your employer’s control. I ended up looking into this one year as a member of staff raised the issue with the extra hour.
Who's control is it under then?
If it's a case of ensuring coverage between concurrent shifts, the just thing to do would be to pay an hour's overtime. If the shoe were on the other foot and I got the "11 hour" shift I'd expect to work 12 hours.
I work in social care we don't get paid for tha extra hour when clocks go back, we do get paid for an extra hour when clocks go forward. So it's assumed that it roughly balances out to be honest the clocks going forward is the more difficult shift às we are supporting some people who don't understand the changes in time so they can be grumpy when you have to wake them up
Was great this am no head torch required for early morning ride
Who’s control is it under then?
If it’s a case of ensuring coverage between concurrent shifts, the just thing to do would be to pay an hour’s overtime. If the shoe were on the other foot and I got the “11 hour” shift I’d expect to work 12 hours.
Well no one really.
When they go forward no one would be happy to lose an hours pay or have to work an hour past their finish time. If you’ve applied for a job that does shifts then you know what you applied for.
it’s assumed that it roughly balances out
That's all well and good so long as your on shift both times.
I wonder how it interacts with minimum wage legislation. But not enough to google it.
I wonder how it interacts with minimum wage legislation. But not enough to google it.
IIRC wages age worked over a 3 month period average, not one shift.
If working a shift during the clock change time, could you not take a break just as the clocks change, giving you an extra hour?
No.
Need to stop having the tail (Jocks and farmers) wagging the dog.
QI Hooter!
Despite the bolloqualisms we hear twice a year, no farmer ever wanted this or even thought about it. You have to think about why would they?
IIRC wages age worked over a 3 month period average, not one shift.
Which would mean no-one could be paid a wage that was min wage for a standard shift, over a period that included this long shift.
This forum software really is shit
Which would mean no-one could be paid a wage that was min wage for a standard shift, over a period that included this long shift.
Nope, as the extra hour is not included. Likewise when they go forward they can’t take the hour off you.
If you didn't have it, you'd miss it. Who the hell wants the sun coming up at 3am in summer? That hour of sun is much more enjoyable in the evenings. And in winter, getting up and getting all the way to work in darkness is grim.
We all hate dark mornings and we love long summer evenings. If you didn't do daylight savings time we'd have far more dark mornings and far fewer long summer evenings.
Anyway, re the 'it's all done digitally' comment earlier: When it truly is all automatic, you could just add or subtract a couple of minutes each day and no=one would notice.
But any way it’s irrelevant in the 21st century as technology means you can avoid **** up what time it is.
This made me smile. I work in IT for a major financial services organisation, and last night we basically turned everything off for about four hours*, then turned it all back on again, cos otherwise lots of computer things would have gone splat when the clocks went back.
And we are absolutely not the only organisation that has to do this.
* but as I was on-call, that was fine by me, as nothing can go wrong if it's all turned off 🙂
(Although why all our stuff doesn't work to UTC to avoid this kind of issue, which is literally why the bloody thing was invented, astounds me)
Nope, as the extra hour is not included
Having said I wasn't sufficiently interested, I have bothered to google it and it took me all of 20 seconds to find a website saying you're wrong:
https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/working-clocks-go-back-employers-handle-extra-hour-2/
I used to work a day shift pattern and management consulted about turning it into a 24hr shift system. They put forward a couple of schemes, both involving lengthy explanations of what would happen to the people working at the time clocks went forward or back. Can't remember the details (and the shift system was ultimately never put into operation anyway) but it was certainly accounted for somehow.
Much as I don't really care one way or the other about the clock change, I hate riding at this time of year. It takes drivers a couple of weeks for them to get used to driving home in the dark and for those two weeks, it's insane on the roads. Also, look out for the number of one-eyed cars around. Shows that the last time they turned their headlights on was about February...
This made me smile. I work in IT for a major financial services organisation, and last night we basically turned everything off for about four hours*, then turned it all back on again, cos otherwise lots of computer things would have gone splat when the clocks went back.
And we are absolutely not the only organisation that has to do this.
Seriously? You mean to tell me that in 2024 sophisticated computer systems can’t be programmed to take into account clocks being changed by an hour twice a year? Christ, the only things in my house that I had to change the time on this morning were three battery powered analogue clocks!
Even my solar Casio watch changed its own time, although to be fair it’s Bluetooth connected, and I was surprised, because its cheaper sibling which doesn’t have BT has to be manually adjusted.
Despite the bolloqualisms we hear twice a year, no farmer ever wanted this or even thought about it. You have to think about why would they?
The joke* in Australia is that Queenslanders argue against daylight savings because:
a) It will confuse the cows because their milking times will change
b) the extra daylight will cause curtains to fade faster.
.
.
*I can imagine these examples are actually based on real letters sent to local papers.
Even my solar Casio watch changed its own time, although to be fair it’s Bluetooth connected, and I was surprised, because its cheaper sibling which doesn’t have BT has to be manually adjusted.
I was away camping on a riding trip a few weeks ago when the clocks changed in the state to the south of us (New South Wales). Sunday morning we'd agreed to get moving relatively early as it was set to hit 36 degrees and we wanted to avoid the worst of the heat. I'm packing up my tent and getting the distinct impression one of my mates was getting irritated with how long the rest of us were taking. It was 7am but it turned out that both her Garmin watch and her Android phone had changed time to 8am even though we weren't even that close to the time zone and she hadn't set it for NSW time either.
Having said I wasn’t sufficiently interested, I have bothered to google it and it took me all of 20 seconds to find a website saying you’re wrong:
I don’t think that article says what you think it does.
Christ, the only things in my house that I had to change the time on this morning were three battery powered analogue clocks!
You don’t have an oven?
Seriously? You mean to tell me that in 2024 sophisticated computer systems can’t be programmed to take into account clocks being changed by an hour twice a year?
I'm not saying they can't, I'm saying they aren't.
You don’t have an oven?
Mine updated its self over wifi, the only useful function that the wifi offers I've found
Christ, the only things in my house that I had to change the time on this morning were three battery powered analogue clocks!
The clock in my Mum's car is now correct for the next 5 months. Then it'll go back to its summer status of being an hour out.. 😉
I don’t think that article says what you think it does
It could hardly be clearer:
If an employee who is paid at or near the national minimum wage or the national living wage rate works an extra hour when the clocks go back, the employer must be careful that the extra hour does not take the employee’s pay below the relevant rate.
The only way an extra hour worked could not take someone (who was normally on the min wage) below min wage would be if they either got more money or did an hour less elsewhere (but not only when the clock changes again, as that's too far away for a 3 month average).
The joke* in Australia is that Queenslanders argue against daylight savings because:
a) It will confuse the cows because their milking times will change
Has anyone been to Nant-y-arian?
The visitors centre feeds the kites at 3pm. About 5 minutes before, the birds suddenly appear.
Not sure how they cope
It could hardly be clearer:
Well it could as it says to make sure they don’t go below minimum wage. A 12 weeks average will make a tiny significant difference even if you account for that hour. If the employee is a contracted in for that shift then yes that would be different.
If you cut three inches off the bottom edge of a towel and sew it back onto the top, the towel hasn’t shrunk or grown.
Well it has, you've lost a bit of length due to the overlap. You've spent time and effort doing something pointless and ended up with a slightly worse, more annoying towel as a result. And now you have to explain to everyone why you did it.
Not a bad analogy.
You mean to tell me that in 2024 sophisticated computer systems can’t be programmed to take into account clocks being changed by an hour twice a year?
I wonder if perhaps "lots of computer things would have gone splat" actually means "management believes that lots of computer things would have gone splat"? It sounds like the sort of thing "we've always done" despite no-one testing it since the 1990s.
You mean to tell me that in 2024 sophisticated computer systems can’t be programmed to take into account clocks being changed by an hour twice a year?
They can, for sure, but not all the computer systems we're using are sophisticated nor were they all programmed in 2024 🙂
I wonder if perhaps “lots of computer things would have gone splat” actually means “management believes that lots of computer things would have gone splat”? It sounds like the sort of thing “we’ve always done” despite no-one testing it since the 1990s.
Maybe, more fairly "techies who've worked on the stuff for years have a very strong suspicion that it will go splat" is more accurate, but the effort to test every single element would be enormous, and it's simpler to err on the side of caution and turn it all off.
They can, for sure, but not all the computer systems we’re using are sophisticated nor were they all programmed in 2024
Indeed, legacy IT is, er, 'complicated'
Time changes rules
Lap top, smart watches phones: Do themselves, nothing to do here
Wall clocks: minor panic when you realise you're up too early/late for work, do them all...
Car clock: Who knows what sub menu its on, stays on either GMT or BST and is right for some of the time...
Wall clocks: minor panic when you realise you’re up too early/late for work, do them all…
Car clock: Who knows what sub menu its on, stays on either GMT or BST and is right for some of the time…
Only one wall clock, and that’s in the kitchen, it gets used to reference how long something’s been cooking for, a small decorative clock on the mantelpiece, again just a quick glance occasionally, I’ve got a watch, phone and iPad, so not essential, but thanks for reminding me about the car clock - it’s in the settings on the info screen, not difficult to do, just tap a button to put one digit forwards or backwards, as appropriate, it’s remembering to do it is the issue, and it’s the one thing I need to do! [img] 
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Dark by 16.50 🙁
Shit, depressing and futile is what it is. It makes a slight difference for a week or so and then its just darkness until March comes around. I genuinely hate this time of year.