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chewkw
Free MemberIllogical. You no longer exist in future.
Yeah, but I'm aware of that the future exists and that I'll make a lasting impact on that future.
esselgruntfuttock
Too many people on the planet, it’s not rocking horse science.
The population will sort itself out.
The energy source we use won't.
Yeah, but I’m aware of that the future exists and that I’ll make a lasting impact of that future.
Absolutely illogical. You can only show concerns up to the point of your current permitted life span. Arguing about lasting impact is really not important because you do not exist anymore. You cannot cling on to the past existence if you don't exist anymore in anyway or form.
Moral is an emotional argument in science. i.e. it has no place in science,
But it does become a factor, because the science isn't predetermined. We have a choice in what we do. That's where the morality is in that choice. The choice isn't science, the science will flow from the choices we make.
But it does become a factor, because the science isn’t predetermined. We have a choice in what we do. That’s where the morality is in that choice. The choice isn’t science, the science will flow from the choices we make.
It only works in your current state of mind, i.e. existence, but beyond that you are dust and there is no way you know whether your contribution is foolish or beneficial because you no longer exist. Your current view is based on your current state of existence.
Utterly irrelevant to a Climate change thread anyhow.
And yet you decided to take issue with my remark concerning of the stupidity of humans and drag it into a full debate.
And whilst accusations of moronic comments are flying around did you stop to think how daft your suggestion is that I should learn Chinese just in case I ever met a Chinese man or woman that I wanted to communicate with?
Staying on the subject of daft comments it was suggested on the previous page that I was no different to Cecil Rhodes, despite the fact that I hadn't given any indication which language I think all humans should speak. Personally I'm not much bothered I am perfectly happy to consider Swahili, if by some bizarre reason it was proved to be practical, what would Cecil Rhodes think?
did you stop to think how daft your suggestion that I should learn Chinese just in case I ever met a Chinese man or woman that I wanted to communicate with is?
Why? Are there no Chinese people you can speak to around your parts? There's plenty up here.
And how is it moronic? I learned a decent chunk of Spanish for that exact reason. I'm far from fluent, but i know enough that I could probably become fluent very quickly if I ever had to move to a Spanish speaking country. I've had a fair few conversations in Spanish with complete strangers.
You've also technological tools you can also use these days if you need to get a point across.
It's literally never been easier to converse with people in different languages should the need arise.
I could kill myself today and all of the environmental impact and savings will do nothing to make things better for civilisation as a whole. My contribution to the problem has a . and a lot of 0s in front of it.
Meanwhile 100 companies are responsible for 70% of all global emissions. Meanwhile we waste huge amounts of energy in order to extract oil from tar sands. Meanwhile we have water shortages because the pipes leak. Meanwhile we have cities and farms built in deserts.
The best trick the big polluters ever pulled was to make it about individuals.
So don't buy from them?
Ohh wait, that would require effort. As you were.....
Where to start with all this apocalyptic nonsense…
No we aren’t all going to die and humanity isn’t doomed (at least, not through climate change). Certainly there are significant environmental impacts and they are going to increase, but life goes on. The more forcefully we work towards a low carbon world, the better it will be.
Assuming culling millions of people is off the table, I have a theory that the key to getting people to give a **** is to enable them to become invested in their immediate environment. Totally extreme and radical ideas I know, but fix the ridiculous housing situation. Free, secure for life quality housing for anyone who wants it. To live in, not so you can have five of them to rent out for £££££, With gardens for growing stuff. And a Universal Basic Income, so at the very least both members of a couple wouldn't have to go out working, and likely driving etc to pay excessive housing costs... but could spend time at home with their kids, or just like, enjoying life!
I suppose I'm advocating a slower kind of lifestyle. An escape from the rat run. If people didn't have to work so damn hard maybe they wouldn't need so many holidays and shiny things to make themselves feel better. Or maybe I'm deluded and the cold reality is that everyone in the world wants to drive a Range Rover and fly around the world taking photos of themselves for clout on social media.
Being bothered about the environment seems like a kind of luxury of the well off, relatively speaking. What I notice about my friends, and Facebook for example is that the ones who really care, and are most vocal about caring for the environment are generally very secure indeed, from a housing and financial sense, inherited or bought by parents house etc. And that's fine, I'm not knocking them. They have security and the free time that gives them the freedom to think about such things. If we could only somehow roll that out further...
Total hippy pie in the sky drivel I know, just my musings. And I'm only thinking of the UK, It's all irrelevant when 18 billion Chinese people want to drive a Humvee. Just writing all that down makes me realise how daft it is so don't put the boot in too much 😉
Personally I’m not much bothered I am perfectly happy to consider Swahili, if by some bizarre reason it was proved to be practical, what would Cecil Rhodes think?
That's nice of you. I don't think you've really thought about it enough.
I like your thinking Jambourgie and think your ideas are sound. One problem though, people. As a group we’re utterly shit at two things in my opinion. Thinking of the future and thinking of others. We need a seismic shift in how society functions and how we view the world. Measuring everything by using money as the metric saddens me.
We can't get humans to use litter bins or pick their own dogs shit up even though it helps society and ecology on an easy to do basic level, the infrastructure (litter bins) is already there. Yet tonight walking through a park the area is strewn with shit again after a nice sunny day.
Why are people going to change their way of life based on 'a bit of sunshine' when rags like the DailyMail have convinced people like my parents that electric cars are bad.
**** it - we don't have children, the fruit juicez discarding kids of today can inherit this shithole of a planet.
This discussion is a waste of electrons.
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/spring-clean/
I said one language which all humans understand, how the **** doesn’t that make sense?
Got to agree with molgrips.
I said one language which all humans understand, how the **** doesn’t that make sense?
Maybe try rotating your handlebars back a little?
I don’t think you’ve really thought about it enough.
The idea that all humans should share one common language as a means of communication has been around for well over a hundred years.
Whilst I appreciate that socialism is a minority view on stw I make no apologies for being a socialist - an international language is considered by many to be a basic socialist principal - the majority of humans share a common cause and a common language would facilitate people working together.
Your suggestion copa that Cecil Rhodes would have approved of such a socialist aim is nonsense. I think it is you who hasn't really thought about it.
The challenges of climate change require people throughout the world to work together in a common cause, not being able to even share a common language at this level of our societal evolution does not bode well.
We need to work together not fight against each other. Sharing a common language can only help humans achieve common goals. It does of course sound impossible to achieve but there is absolutely no reason why it should be.
What RustyNissan said.
We're screwed basically, AS WE ARE NOW.
& There's my son trying to start a family.
I despair.
I mainly despair of the humanity I see around me who have no respect for the basics.
All this "too late" bollocks gets on my tots. If there's a chance we could save an additional 10-20% of biodiversity on the llanet we havery a moral obligation to take it. I feel I can say this amongst you planet wrecking hypocrites having cycled to the offy this evening
Sharing a common language can only help humans achieve common goals
you already know English, either learn Esperanto or Chinese. Anyway - back to climate change.
I've learnt that setting an example for people doesn't work. 16 years I commuted by bike the same route, I was never joined by anyone else or waved at anyone new coming the other way. I made no change.
My 'Spring Clean' thread - I'm still the only person clearing the park in a morning, the other dog walking blokes who tut about litter are still tutting and watching me pick it all up. The thread is an empty echo chamber.
Humans - just doing their own thing that they decide. Our government is shit - they won't change anything. Greta hasn't changed anything - people of her generation are still dropping Monster and Maccys everywhere.
Socialism to me would basically mean common ownership(and not necessarily at the state level) and democratisation of the workplace. I don't really see much requirement in that for a decreed common language beyond cross border projects, but we already have that in English really. For me Socialism should be more of a bottom up structure, and within it there would be a lot of dynamism and choice for people to decide their own needs. There will be plenty need for language, but would it have to be universal? No, imo. People would use language much as they do now as required.
A common language I guess would be useful for a top down decree orientated Socialism I guess mind, can see that.
You a mad Stalinist or something Ernie? 😆
RustyNissanPrairie Full Member
you already know English, either learn Esperanto or Chinese.
So me learning Chinese would mean that all humans in the world would able to easily and freely communicate with each other?
Idiotic comments like yours really do emphasis the point I was making. The very suggestion that all humans should share a common language by which they can easily and freely communicate is considered so preposterous and even 'moronic' that it is dismissed out of hand.
What hope then for a successful fight against climate change - even with all the will in the world an incomparably more difficult goal to achieve.
In comparison teaching Esperanto to school children throughout the world would be a piece of piss.
Obviously that however would be deeply unattractive to many governments as people not sharing a common language is an important factor when governments feel the need to stir up nationalism and war.
Ernie, you seemed to be blaming us for not having united around a common language and presumably utopian goal along with that. Clearly it would have to be a second language, if it were ever to happen, because you should not and cannot eradicate every language. Now, teaching second languages requires education, and that is in short supply in much of the world due to development problems. Now, if you could make every country in the world prosperous enough to educate everyone without consuming too many of the earth's resources, that'd be great.
Unfortunately though, we are where we are.
The very suggestion that all humans should share a common language by which they can easily and freely communicate is considered so preposterous and even ‘moronic’ that it is dismissed out of hand.
No - the aim is fine, your post was moronic as it glosses over rather a lot of details, which are kind of the entire problem.
You a mad Stalinist or something Ernie? 😆
Are you still going on about it seosamh? You said, quote:
"Utterly irrelevant to a Climate change thread anyhow."
So how about you stick to talking bollocks about climate change? You obviously know nothing about what you are trying to argue with me about. If you did you would know that Stalin had a vicious campaign against those that supported an international language, and that he had Esperanto speakers murdered as part of the Great Purge.
I’ve learnt that setting an example for people doesn’t work. 16 years I commuted by bike the same route, I was never joined by anyone else or waved at anyone new coming the other way. I made no change.
My ‘Spring Clean’ thread – I’m still the only person clearing the park in a morning, the other dog walking blokes who tut about litter are still tutting and watching me pick it all up. The thread is an empty echo chamber.
Humans – just doing their own thing that they decide. Our government is shit – they won’t change anything. Greta hasn’t changed anything – people of her generation are still dropping Monster and Maccys everywhere.
Just don't give up, keep on chipping away. You might not see the changes in people, but there will be people who notice and it will influence them in some way for the better... at least, I hope.
I cycle to work too, we have only one family car. Take bags to the shops for the shopping, recycle as much as we can, re-use/purpose and repair things, grow some of our own food, our garden is friendly to wildlife.
Don't get dragged down by the 'everything is shit, we're all ****ed' attitudes.
ernielynch
Free Member
You a mad Stalinist or something Ernie? 😆Are you still going on about it seosamh? You said, quote:
“Utterly irrelevant to a Climate change thread anyhow.”
So how about you stick to talking bollocks about climate change? You obviously know nothing about what you are trying to argue with me about. If you did you would know that Stalin had a vicious campaign against those that supported an international language, and that he had Esperanto speakers murdered as part of the Great Purge.
My knowledge of esperanto speakers in the soviet union is irrelevant, you're the one wanting to issue a decree that a common language must by learned by everyone. It's incredibly authoritarian (Not to mention fairly wasteful and unnecessary ). You also seem to place no value in the cultural diversity that is linked to language. Which i'd suggest is where you'll get most push back on this.
I know you'll say that it shouldn't errode native languages, but it will. The whole common language thing was enforced on the people of these islands. So it's not like your little experiment hasn't been tried before.
Which also tells you it's not a trait unique to socialism.
“Utterly irrelevant to a Climate change thread anyhow.”
Thread's been well and truly hijacked it seems. 😆
my favourite thread on here was the "Places flown to" one, the glee with which the posters bragged about trashing the planet was quite something to behold.
you’re the one wanting to issue a decree that a common language must by learned by everyone. It’s incredibly authoritarian
Wow. Not only do you want to go on about it, after claiming that the issue was "utterly irrelevant", but now you want to up the stakes by making bizarre claims that I want to issue a "decree" which is "incredibly authoritarian" and that, apparently, makes me like Stalin!
FFS get a grip. I'll repeat......human societies haven't evolved sufficiently so that all humans throughout the world can easily and freely communicate with each other, such is the stupidity of our species. Which doesn't bode well for dealing with an issue incomparably more complex such as climate change.
Feel free to disagree with me but spare the absurd comparisons with Stalin. Unless of course you want to suggest that dealing with climate change would require authoritarian measures that only Stalin would approve of?
Wow. Not only do you want to go on about it, after claiming that the issue was “utterly irrelevant”, but now you want to up the stakes by making bizarre claims that I want to issue a “decree” which is “incredibly authoritarian” and that, apparently, makes me like Stalin!
FFS get a grip. I’ll repeat……human societies haven’t evolved sufficiently so that all humans throughout the world can easily and freely communicate with each other, such is the stupidity of our species. Which doesn’t bode well for dealing with an issue incomparably more complex such as climate change.
Feel free to disagree with me but spare the absurd comparisons with Stalin. Unless of course you want to suggest that dealing with climate change would require authoritarian measures that only Stalin would approve of?
I'm struggling to see why the ultimate evolution of language should be that of a singular common language. It's not necessary for all parts of the world to communicate in a single language, nor is it even desirable.
And yet the inability of humans to use one common language to easily communicate with each other is actually celebrated as some sort of huge positive achievement.
I mean look you don't even think there's anything positive about different languages.
What if your hypothesis was correct? What if that evolved common language turned out to be a fairly limiting language? Would that not end up being completely detrimental? Evolving into a dead end doesn't mean the supreme expression of something.
People think differently in different languages. That's diversity we don't want to lose.
Put half a dozen of the world’s most intelligent humans in one single room together and there is a reasonable chance that they won’t be able to communicate between themselves beyond a very basic ape-like level.
I also love the indignation when you are trying to pass of nonsense like this from your opening gambit as a sensible thought.
And yes I am considering you as authoritarian, you seem to desire this common tongue as dominant and superior to others. That's where batshit begins to my mind.
Anyhow, we'll agree to disagree on the matter. I'll let you have the last comment if you choose, others can make up their own mind.
Anyhow enough hijacking, back to climate change where this topic is, indeed, utterly irrelevant. 😆
Yeah, we're ****ed, it's just a question of how many species we take down with us. Example: here on a cycling website, dare suggest it might be better to pedal a bike using your own energy rather than attaching a lump of rare earth metals to it and plugging it into a power grid, and you get attacked for being an elitist...
This is the most hilarious thread I've read on here.
Peak STW. Chapeau
Well I'm sure it will get even more hilarious after you have made your suggestions on how to deal with climate change.
What would you suggest - change your duvet to one with a different tog rating, or maybe have more BBQs, drink more beer, and get some more sunbathing in?
A complete and systematic change over of base energy systems from fossil fuels to renewables and nuclear would be more the kinda thing I'd be thinking of.
I'd probably be looking for countries to issue 100/200 year loans or something mental like that to pay for it, and get it done as soon as humanely possibly.
Massive landslides in Uttarakhand India, eek! - bloody sure I wouldn’t be hanging around to film it for YouTube clicks.
thisisnotaspoon
Full MemberSo don’t buy from them?
Ohh wait, that would require effort. As you were…..
...and would also achieve nothing.
People, countries, the world are useless at dealing with things that will happen in the future. People do not see themselves in the future they only see themselves now and in tech past. The future is someone else.
We are already past the point where simple things could have a big impact (should have started 40 years ago) and it will now be coming up with solutions to deal with it as the impact increases. Well off people/countries will be okay as they will deal with it, poorer people will suffer or die.
A lot of people will need to migrate but many won't be able to, i.e. poor people.
Example: here on a cycling website, dare suggest it might be better to pedal a bike using your own energy rather than attaching a lump of rare earth metals to it and plugging it into a power grid, and you get attacked for being an elitist…
Yeah I think you missed the point there.
Society on this topic is like a smoker. 20 a day, nothing major, chipping away at their health, head in the sand. Gradually the effects are clear but in denial, all the excuses. Dead by early 50s. We're probably at the late 40s stage now.
At what point do people start to change behaviours, not just in the paying it lip service sense, but people starting to make noticeable changes to their lifestyle to try and counter things?
I’m not talking just buying a car with slightly better fuel economy but actually doing away with the car and dealing with the inconvenience of it?
Personally? Over a decade ago. Gave up car ownership because I could and cars fk the environment - C02 and effect on our living space. But society is stacked against you doing that, giving up smoking was easier because that's only willpower not your job, where you live and what you do etc (I did some daft things when I was young).
I now have a car again unfortunately. Hard to avoid it, a cheap 52mpg runner bought while moving house, use it as little as possible.
I don't fly for bike holidays anymore, that's out. Trains or coaches only. We haven't flown for a holiday in 5 years and are unlikely to in future. We buy a lot less meat, maybe 75% less. All those things came too late I'd say but better late than never.
Fk waiting for the government to act and saying we're all helpless unless they guide us, they don't care. Capitalism burns everything for the profits of a few and we provide those profits with what we do/spend on. WE have the power. We need to stop having the mentality of those smokers who die young, "I'll probably give up soon.." Have some willpower - we control our actions and anything else is just excuses.
Agree, which is why WE will be doing **** all about it. You have seen the majority of WE haven't you?
the Green party should be taking this opportunity to run some campaigns along the lines of
"we told you this would happen, why do yo continue to vote for the party that promises profit and tax fiddles, rather than making some effort to make the changes we clearly desperatley need to make"
Agree, which is why WE will be doing **** all about it. You have seen the majority of WE haven’t you?
You and I don't know what 'WE' does, we just have an impression via media and our own perceptions, thinking with our own prejudices and filters, likely to be wrong. It's in many people's interest for us both to think it's all futile. The people gaining in all this will have a comfy enough last 2-3 decades on earth.
People just don't get it. Most peoples response to the hot weather is to turn the AC up in their car. Literally every car parked up on the way to pick up my kid from school had someone sat in it on their phone, engine running, AC turned up. A couple even with windows open trying to cool the entire planet.
It's just the weather. Stop flapping and enjoy it for god's sake.
Me and OH are doing as much as we can (no car, no flights, no kids, no pets) but there are still fat, lazy, cheap meat guzzling biffers
You sound like you have a joyous life
Carnivores in eating meat shocker
If this summer weather is climate change I support it. Lovely here in the west of Scotland. After all the forecast 2C warming will just get our climate closer to that of southern England.
Perhaps in 30 years time rather than Brits retiring to Spain the Spaniards will retire to lovely cool UK?