Cheap camper across Europe = disaster or adventure?

Decent Berlingo and a tent setup would be my recommendation

There's all sorts of benefits to 3 people and 3 bikes inside a vehicle when travelling / day off etc.

I've suggested tent and big car, but it's not going down as well. They would compromise to bigger van + tent, but they are keen that the £10-12k of bikes, spares, riding kit can be inside a vehicle (with a plan to tint the windows).

I did it in a Transit Mk 1 with the god awful V4 engine. Spent Xmas holidays welding the worst of the holes up, replaced the rusted brake pipes. We camped in the back at Arc 2000 in March and drove it the length of Italy then through Austria to Athens. It died in Greece when the engine gave up. Happy times.

Even if it blows up your eldest will have fun.

That engine will go fine.

But that camper and most cheap campers will be ....is rotten as a peach.

Do they want to throw their cash away and burn the van at the end?

but they are keen that the £10-12k of bikes, spares, riding kit can be inside a vehicle (with a plan to tint the windows).

Be safer in a Berlingo than in that Talbot

I would just buy a van and get them to throw up some insulation and carpet.

Go French, Renault, Citroen, Peugeot and the locals will be able to help!

If three are travelling up front you need a master size I would guess. Sounds like great adventure. When my son buggered off to Indian and Nepal for a bit I was worried but it was a fantastic adventure for him. Try not too worry too much.

Oh and insurance, make sure they all have some that covers the stuff they are going to be doing!

I'm with DB. A £5k panel van should be fine and loads newer/more reliable. Insulate it, very basic beds, bike racks whatever in the back. Gas stove and a dirt worker for showering, job done.

It is getting harder and harder to park and stay over night. Lots of places have ban in place.

Another +1 to the above!

5k panel van, 3 sat up front, room for bikes in the back. Get some sleeping bags/mats and a stove (which I'm fairly sure you have an abundance of op?)

I'd avoid a camper.....5k you're going to be looking at something essentially fit for the scrap yard....3 blokes and bikes in it would potentially lead to payload issues too.

If you see some of the vans/campers at the EWS events around Europe then that link looks like the Hilton.
As long as they don't thrash it they will be fine, at their age I wouldn't have a problem.

It's all about the experiences they will get

Abigale spent a bit of time with 3 in this

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Just short of 2 months touring France, Italy and Switzerland in this.

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Her plans this year for a tour of Europe were scuppered so she did 3000 miles touring the UK

[img] [/img]

She is already planning next years Summer expedition

The Decathlon drive away is a god send

Ok, so perhaps a larger van with a driveway awning for the week there's 3 (even 4!) of them sounds a plan.

I think doing the trip for 8 weeks or so, 2 or 3 of them, they would easily spend a few £k on accommodation, so throwing a van away at the end isn't the worst thing...

Don't get a Leyland DAF. Break down all the time and can't get parts. Especially in Europe!

The ldv running gears transit...

I'd say van. Too chain the bikes up inside and have a curtain up so when the rear doors are open it's hidden

Sounds brilliant. Only issue i can see is where the bikes go at night when sleeping inside if they are very valuable?

Sounds like you've experience there YGH..

Sounds brilliant. Only issue i can see is where the bikes go at night when sleeping inside if they are very valuable?

Currently working that out - partly hence the awning, but also easy to make raised bed(s) or string them up under roof of a high top.

It'll be good fun but that Talbot thing is crap.

At least buy the best Vivaro/Trafic or Boxer/Ducato you can get and when it goes pear shaped at least a regular mechanic will be able to help. Fit ground anchors to the floor, buy big chains and sleep in a drive away tent.

It's easy to let your guard down on holiday but bikes go missing all the time.

French van, basic shell, kip outside bikes safe inside. My first vehicle was £300 and drove it from Oban to Barcelona and back so why not do it.

A £5k panel van should be fine and loads newer/more reliable. Insulate it, very basic beds, bike racks whatever in the back. Gas stove and a dirt worker for showering, job done.

Yep, maybe a LWB Trafic.

£5k should get you something reliable enough. I'd take my '07 plate Vivaro out there with reasonable confidence and that's worth less.

Buy carefully obvs.

Wheels off, two bikes strapped across back of seats, bulkhead. Works best with bikes upside-down. Third bike across front seats with wheels off once parked up.

If going down the camper route, then the old Talbot (really a rebadged Ducato) is the best choice. They were built on a galvanised chassis and used (mostly) the old PSA group XUD diesel engines. The non-turbo version is the very definition of a gutless wonder, but it is incredibly reliable - until the head cracks.

They do rot below the front windscreen and this can then eventually eat away at the brake pedal mounting, so check this area carefully. Caveat: Over 5 years since I last worked on one.

An awning or a driveaway with a sensible sized van was my first thought, maybe a higher mileage Vito 8 seater? Which can be had for £5k, ex airport shuttle/taxi vehicles..

leave all of the rear seats at home (or take 1 extra if moving 4 people) and you've got a carpeted van with floor rails to mount stuff to, admittedly it's not going to be fully insulated but if it's mainly a summer tourer on a budget, is that so vital?

Add an awning/driveway and they should have the required capacity for people and kit. Throw any remaining budget at engine & gearbox servicing and fresh tyres. Prevention of a breakdown disaster is probably more important than creature comforts.

If going down the camper route, then the old Talbot (really a rebadged Ducato) is the best choice

But not that old Talbot he linked to.

It has advisorys for being rotten all over. That was handed over with a ticket saying don't bring that back next year......

Well hopefully the OP has got the message that buying a camper under £5k would be madness, anyway.

Moab - they are late teenagers aren’t they? So anything dad says is going to get mostly ignored - learning from your mistakes is a valuable experience…

One thought though - would a LHD be better. Obviously harder to get here - but less popular if they are for sale…

But not that old Talbot he linked to.

Interesting example of how the MOT test varies. Year before it passes with a couple of tyre advisories and then a 1000 or so miles later a massive list of advisories. Got to be a different test station, or tester?

Interesting example of how the MOT test varies. Year before it passes with a couple of tyre advisories and then a 1000 or so miles later a massive list of advisories. Got to be a different test station, or tester?

It swings both ways since 2010 with vary degrees of ****edness Would be interesting to cross reference the mot tests between ownership changes on v5.

I reckon there's a few 100 quid in the ashtray Mots interspersed between real MOTs on that Talbot ..

Just to throw different ideas at you.

How about a trailor tent or dare I say it, a caravan? And a decent car that won't have any engine issues?

Ultimately they will have a fantastic time and the more that goes wrong the better the stories will be.

Failing that, if they do buy a big van try and want to keep the price down, recycle from old caravans, sinks, hobs, toilets, furniture, fridge, etc just use new electrics.

How about a trailor tent or dare I say it, a caravan?

Sadly as a 19 year old, trailer isn't in his license. He can drive LWB high top sprinter, but not a caravan...

Depends as well how mechanically clued up your lad and his mates are - if they can strip engines and are good at bodging with bailing twine/duct tape/cable ties then let them crack on in any older less complex snotter. If they couldn't find a dipstick then the newest least thrashed large car and a tent.

Being outside of the UK/Europe and it's safety blanket of recovery services and common language in an old vehicle is a challenge. I've taken my old Defender to Morrocco, our Transit to Ibiza/Spain/France and our old Volvo pre Covid did Perpignan every year. I knew the vehicles inside out and have the skillset to confidently get them home again

He's changing a bike BB at the moment, bit he's never done any car spannering.

Sadly as a 19 year old, trailer isn’t in his license.

Didn't everyone get that additional class on their licence a couple of weeks ago? I think it was to free up testers to concentrate on truck test capacity.

Hi / mid top van, build in three bunks, bungie netting and hooks along the side to stuff things in, hang bags from. A couple of boxes with clip lids for kitchen stuff. Don't get obsessed about insulation and lining it out. Only thing I would add on top of the bunks would be a power bank of some sort. Camp gear for cooking. More money for van, beer, food, fuel.

Also take a tent for when on official campsites for extra room / privacy/ personal space. I would personally take a 4 person family tent with two bed rooms, 1 in the van and one in each room. Sleeping in a van three up will not be nice for more than a week and personal space will help relations. A tent is generally better designed and priced than a drive away awning and less Hassel. Also some campsites have cheaper pitches it you don't camp right van / car. Take a hammock as well as you can string that from van to whatever and in the heat will be much nicer in the heat than three in a van!

They will be dirt bagging it better to be more incognito with a van.

I'd go for the Relay / Ducato / Boxer van option. They are wide enough to sleep widthways (which also means a bit more elbow room for 3 up front). Generally reliable and rot free vans plus easy to get fixed in Europe if anything did go wrong.

How many miles will the road trip be? 5000? Would you think twice about buying a £5k van or car in UK that only had to live for that mileage? Buy carefully and run for a bit locally to see what develops and it really shouldn't be an issue. Teach him what needs checking on trips and what to look / listen out for (eg where the temperature gauge normally sits etc).

And having apprenticed / done R&D on the ldv vans I'd really avoid them :-). Most will have rotted away. Guess the later Maxus is a lot of van for the money but spares and support won't be good.

Always felt a bit sorry that the Sherpa had to drag on so long - the Master was the joint venture between Renault and Leyland DAF that should have replaced it around 1995 (but DAF went pop first).

Trailers can also bring other problems - TUV tests for motorway speeds in Germany, double vignette costs in Switzerland etc.

Just looked on Autotrader. Covid is still having an impact on the 2nd van market.
£5k doesn't get you anything Fiat Ducato wise (better engine than the same shape Relay or Boxer).
Sprinters are the usual rusty mega mileage courier short dropped to death sheds and will need flywheels and injectors. There's the odd older shape (up to 2006 year) Sprinter that looks okay.

I've dirt bagged inside vans - snowboarding tours and DH races. It's grim, you stink, the van stinks, damp with condensation dripping off everything. Noisey in the rain, red hot in the sun. Poor sleep, ratty with your van mates, frayed friendships. But it is a rite of passage!

Didn’t everyone get that additional class on their licence a couple of weeks ago? I think it was to free up testers to concentrate on truck test capacity.

Not checked it out as I have my trailer test but I suspect it's like buses

In the UK you can drive a bus for pleasure (ie a camper conversion) but you can't drive it in Europe.

Europe still require a trailer test as far as I know and our requirement was to align with EU rather than for safety....which is nuts.

Either way I wouldn't be giving the French a reason to march you to a paypoint and ask questions later

Monsieur B’stard the carefree Gallic mechanic

French mechanics have been spannering my vehicles for 30years when I can't or can't be arsed to do it myself. And very good jobs they've done too. Molgrips' car threads would be really short and dull if he used my local garages. "I took it in, they fixed it and the bill was as quote" end of thread.

I have to say, our experience in LesGets of mechanics was appalling - they happily tried to charge us €250 per tyre following a puncture....for an £80/€100 tyre...

I’d go for the Relay / Ducato / Boxer van option. They are wide enough to sleep widthways

If you're under 6'. I had one with the intention of that set up and at 6'1" and a bit even without insulation at the widest point it wasn't happening.

frayed friendships

Been there opens your eyes to some some fokes level of selfishness. Traveled with a guy befor multiple occasions but after three weeks that was it. Tantrum after tantrum.

Friends of my parents are massive Francophiles spending as much time as they can/could(b-word) there. Always drove Citroen's on the principle that it could be fixed.
Not if it's a clutch cable which is a different length for lh and Rh drive vehicles.

Sounds like a great Winter/Spring project for them all to get used to a van and how things work. They can then have most things sorted before they go in the summer and get a few test runs done in the UK.

At a guess educators experiance of French garage would be with his new or nearly new cars at the dealer as oppose a 90s shitbox camper van.

Even with a 2016 nissan/Renault with a clear cut gearbox/clutch replacement and an open cheque book was enough of a nightmare that my old man drove to Birmingham in 4th gear - and back with 6 gears a new clutch and a new dmf... And it was done before the quote came in from the Renault main dealer in Brive - who was positive about doing it......infact that was 3 weeks ago and we are still waiting.

onehundredthidiot
Full Member

Friends of my parents are massive Francophiles spending as much time as they can/could(b-word) there. Always drove Citroen’s on the principle that it could be fixed.
Not if it’s a clutch cable which is a different length for lh and Rh drive vehicles

This is kind of my point earlier - if they knew the vehicle inside out they'd know that was an issue and carry a spare (and ideally know how to fit it). Otherwise you have to accept you might need to leave the vehicle behind, bodge it to get it home or wait for parts to be DHL'd in if you don't have decent ADAC / European recovery.

That's a whole other level of inside out unless you're a mechanic. I wouldn't realistically expect anyone to know that for the use case given. It's a Euro road trip, not the Mongol rally.

On trailer licences, you should be entitled to tow in Europe:

DVLA will update your driving licence record to show that you’re allowed to tow trailers. You do not need to contact DVLA for this to happen. It will be done automatically. You’ll get category BE added to your driving licence when you next apply to get a new driving licence.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-rules-for-towing-a-trailer-or-caravan-with-a-car-from-autumn-2021

If that's the route they wanted to go down then a licence renewal and trailer lessons minimum.