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I know she doesn't mention any of that bullshit because I have ears, and she hasn't mentioned any of that bullshit.
What I mean is, it's not going to be information she's going to readily offer unprompted. She's not about to stand there telling you that you've got an excess of blood and not enough bile, so she's going to manipulate your spine to fix your sinus problems. Probably because she knows she'll get that reaction.
But, I'm repeating myself. If she's doing "the same" as a physio, what you need there, call me Mr Crazy, is perhaps a physio.
Can you see why I might have less confidence than you in that approach?
Maybe you had a bad physio. (S)he did it wrong. People are human, gods know I've had a couple of dreadful GPs in my time, doesn't mean that medicine 'doesn't work.' I can see why you'd not want to go back though, it's hard to be objective.
Err...OK thanks for all the replies 🙂 have just got back from a 6-mile fireroad amble and everything seems to be working ok but there's still tension when i stand up.
Interesting comments re chiro vs osteo
Wow, I genuinely had NO idea that some people got so worked up about Chiropractors!
I'd suffered from back pain for years due to a problem with my spine. NHS had only ever offered painkillers as a solution.
A friend who is a very good climber recommended a chiropractor and I went along to see her.
Turns out she is a kayaker and mountain biker (the 2 activities that cause most pain for me) and she has sorted me out. Gave me a list of stretches and exercises to do, specific for my activities and was able to treat individual problems from my neck to me knees.
She has NEVER mentioned energy flow, crystals, chi or my spiritual well being or owt else bollocks.
She has told me how one problem can cause another and what to do when that occurs.
Basically she has kept me working in the outdoor industry into me mid-30s when I thought I'd have to give it all up aged 28...
I've also seen many a physio to sort out breaks and dislocations and their methods seem fairly similar.
I'm really astonished by the venom some people have for chiropractors!
Quite why you would see a problem in my treatment or the person who gave it I have no idea, isn't there room for a bit of everything?
I find it difficult to understand people who go to bat defending discredited alternative medical systems with no basis in fact or science
[quote= re-physio]its efficacy is well proven.
You saw the RCT studies cited earlier didn't you? In fact, Cougar, wasn't it your own evidence?
Spinal manipulation/mobilization is effective in adults for: acute, subacute, and chronic low back pain; migraine and cervicogenic headache; cervicogenic dizziness; manipulation/mobilization is effective for several extremity joint conditions; and thoracic manipulation/mobilization is effective for acute/subacute neck pain.
SBZ, had a course consisting of 5 visits I think. Despite me telling her, each time I was given sets of exercises to do which I couldn't physically complete. I'd agree, maybe she was just a poor exponent of the art.
But, I'm repeating myself. If she's doing "the same" as a physio, what you need there, call me Mr Crazy, is perhaps a physio.
She's cheaper than a physio 😉 As I've said, If she can fix me quicker than the 1st physio then I'll be happy. There has been improvement, don't really give a toss if that's because of using physio techniques or pixie dust, I just want to get better. She's been happy to tell me that cycling was exacerbating my condition, the two physios said the opposite. They were wrong.
OK, I haven't read all fifty posts, but it sounds like the sacro-iliac thingy that I had until a nice osteopath fixed it.
A patient of mine had his vertebral artery dissected by a chiropractor treating neck pain a few years ago. He was lucky. No permanent brain injury, just needed 6 months on warfarin.
This fact alone is enough to put me off.
A friend of mine had his bacterial endocarditis diagnosed as a bad cold by a doctor. That fact alone is enough to make me far more wary.
There is a slight difference between missing a diagnosis and causing a stroke by over-manipulating the cervical spine.
First rule: cause no harm.
To be fair most of the letters I see from chiropractors seems to indicate that they use spinal manipulation to treat spinal problems. Although I guess they wouldn't write to the gp to say that they are going to re-align someone's chakras.
docrobster - did the chiropractor screen for VBI or did the just forget about that bit?
Also there is a Cochrane review on manipulation and mobilisation. It says this:
Conclusions. Mobilization and/or manipulation when used with exercise are beneficial for persistent mechanical neck disorders with or without headache. Done alone, manipulation and/or mobilization were not beneficial; when compared to one another, neither was superior.
There is a slight difference between missing a diagnosis and causing a stroke by over-manipulating the cervical spine.
Yes there is a difference, but there is also a similarity
Evening all, can I re-join the party? OK, am now fuelled up by liver and bacon, red wine and some qwality rock muzak. 8)
Can't believe some of this stuff I'm reading! Chakras, homeopathy, dissected artery. 😯
Before my Chiropractor commenced any treatment and after a lengthy interrogation, I was x-rayed. Obviously I questioned the necessity of this but it was explained to me. After just one treatment I was able to walk, previously I'd been crawling around on all fours.
Actually, I had the same as slowoldgit - sacro-illiac joint and it was all jammed up.
I have complete confidence in my Chiropractor as he actually got to the root of the problem whereas over the years, physios and podiatrists and, indeed, a surgeon, hadn't been able to find the [b]cause[/b].
Question for you - why was your SI joint all jammed up? Considering that it's a joint that has a very small amount of movement I am not convinced that it would cause a whole lot of pain through being jammed up.
Judging by the amount of wear shown up on the x-ray, chances are it had been there since childhood. Compounded by 10 years of running, sometimes 6 days a week, walking including mountains, being thrown off horses etc. My pelvis was effectively tilted so I was lop-sided!
You saw the RCT studies cited earlier didn't you? In fact, Cougar, wasn't it your own evidence?
Yeah. I was trying to give it credit where it was due, but looking closer I may have been a little hasty with that report. The efficacious treatments listed there are for "spinal manipulation," it's not actually clear whether they're looking at chiropractic or osteopathic treatments.
I've just found that same report linked from Wikipedia and flagged as "unbalanced opinion," which is unsurprising as it's on a Chiropractic website. So in hindsight it was perhaps a bad example.
Ho hum.
Agreed Charlie all treatments have potential for harm.
In this case when I saw the guy after he said he had signed a consent/disclaimer listing stroke as a potential adverse effect so the chiropractor was safe. No idea whether the chiropractor screened for VBI
Anyway this is OT. The OP was about low back pain. The most effect treatment for simple low back pain is [url= http://http://www.tsoshop.co.uk/bookstore.asp?Action=Book&ProductId=9780117029491 ]this little book[/url] that costs a couple of quid.
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To add my twopenneth worth, I had recurring neck pain and restricted movement. Saw all manner of people and it was a Chiro that sorted it. Was very sceptical at first but the basic premise what that a couple of my vertabrae were locked and causing pressure on a nerve. An X-Ray and about 12 sessions of less than 10 mins treatment (adjustments/clicks) and it was sorted.
Evidence enough for me.
And it was all paid for by BUPA. And if I trust anyone to figure out what treatment works and what doesn't its a bunch of actuaries.
How long did your treatment take CG?
I've just found that same report linked from Wikipedia and flagged as "unbalanced opinion," which is unsurprising as it's on a Chiropractic website.
But it was carried out according to the Cochrane guidelines, so it is hard to fault it. And unfair to call it "unbalanced opinion"
Rich - once the Chiropractor had diagnosed, it did take about 12 treatments. I tried to go back to running but was still in pain so had to give up.
Nowadays, probably twice a year. He said as long as I carry on mtb'ing I will still have to see him!
CG > did no-one else send you for an x-ray? Sounds to me that that's less a case of "yay, chiropractic!" and more a case of your doctor being crap?
Still, I'm glad it worked for you. Perhaps if they dropped vertebral subluxation and the rest of straight chiropractic cobblers once and for all, and then bundled together everything that was left over, there might be a reputable profession left behind. Or perhaps all you'd be left with is a physiotherapist and a nice cup of tea and a sit down. *shrugs*
The most effect treatment for simple low back pain is this little book that costs a couple of quid
Oh you horrid tease! You doctors and your secrets!
So you had to have a lot of treatment by anyones standard, have to go back twice a year and they say that you will have the problem as long as you keep biking.... And you think this is working? I would be running a mile in the opposite direction.
I don't get tea. Am I being ripped off Cougar? Cheers for the info CG, Maybe I'm just being a bit tight because I want a quicker fix than that. I also really want to ride my bike, and I don't have long before our baby is born. Meh 🙁
But it was carried out according to the Cochrane guidelines, so it is hard to fault it. And unfari to call it "unbalanced opinion"
That's not infallible, but yes, I take your point.
Oh you horrid tease! You doctors and your secrets!
The link was broken, correct link is [url= http://www.tsoshop.co.uk/bookstore.asp?Action=Book&ProductId=9780117029491 ]here[/url]
Just got back from a ride and read this post with some interest. I suffered bad shoulder / neck pains for years following a fall playing football. I had seen at 4 different physio's, an osteopath and a couple of GP's. none could cure it. My chiropractor did in 6 visits. Before I went I was as sceptical as Cougar. She fixed a "pregnancy" problem my wife had that was causing her considerable pain and she persuaded me to go. A friend I bike with told me they fixed his back (I didn't know he went until I met him once in the waiting room)
This is in defence of chiropractors. I have no idea of the science but I have seen it works at least for some people. Fact.
I don't get tea. Am I being ripped off Cougar?
Oh, I'd complain about that. (-:
Listen folks, I've said my bit, whether you agree / disagree / believe is up to the individual at the end of the day. Anecdotal evidence and the placebo effect are both very powerful things, you need to make your own minds up.
I'd suggest though that the Internet is thataway --> and if you're considering a chiropractor you might want to go and look into the theories and philosophies that chiropractic is built on.
I've got what is potentially a career-changing meeting tomorrow and I'm quietly bricking it, so I'm going to bow out of this discussion for now at least; I need to try and get some R&R rather than keeping my brain in gear. I'm going to go and see if I can find a thread with lolcats on it.
Cheers though, it's been interesting. I might come back to this if it's still raging tomorrow.
Good luck with the meeting.
Yeah good luck!
Cougar - no, was not sent for an x-ray. I'm afraid I have very little faith in GP's these days. My surgery seem very reluctant to send anyone to see a consultant, physio etc. Not sure if it's tied up with funding or they simply CBA.
Surrounded By Zulus - my body was a wreck due to me MTFU'ing all the time and ignoring all pain! I was probably mid-40's when the cause was discovered annd obviously it takes longer to recover when you are older.
I'm a bit lax in doing stretches after riding, as recommended. Coupled with driving, sitting at a PC, it's inevitable that it becomes jammed up.
Rich - you're more sensible than me though! If Chiro says 'don't ride' then do exactly that. If your body says 'don't ride' then listen to it too. Otherwise it's a waste of money. Hang in there and be positive. How long til baby arrives?
Good luck Cougar. 🙂
These shared experiences are great!
CG if you are wondering why the gp didn't send you for an X-ray, they're not being crap or tight with the money, just following nice guidelines:
[url] http://www.nice.org.uk/nicemedia/live/11887/44345/44345.pdf ][/url] xrays don't alter management.
Chiropractors seem to read xrays differently than Drs.
Virtually every letter I see from a chiropractor says the patient has sacro-iliac joint dysfunction or something similar.
The facts are that neither physio chiropractor or osteopathic treatment any better than than simple advice (ie the back book, thanks for correcting my link cougar and good luck with the meeting.)
Of course this didn't stop me going to see a physio when I had a bad back. I felt better after I'd been. Despite the evidence telling me not to bother. Go figure!
Another vote for chiropracty here. 5 years of back pain that the doc/physio and osteo couldn't keep away ....then I visited my local chiro in exeter who got to the root of the problem and kept me almost pain free ever since without needing multiple regular visits. IMHO and experience it's pretty ignorant and somewhat arrogant to dismiss them all as quacks when it's a fact they help many that the doc etc doesn't or can't.
docrobster - that link isn't working. I'm possibly being cynical but have since changed to a different GP. Obviously glad that your back is sorted though. 🙂
FWIW the first Chiropractor I consulted (checked his credentials obviously) did a good job of convincing me that I was getting better over a course of many months. My body did not feel any better but he was terribly persuasive.
I realised he was a con artist, contacted the regulatory body about him, and was advised to put a complaint in writing to him as the first step. This I did and received a reply along the lines of 'well, you said you were feeling better'. I should have persued this but was so unhappy at not being able to lead an active life. However, a little while later I saw in the local newspaper that he had been taken to Court by a disgruntled patient and was thus removed by the regulatory body.
kaiser - my chiropractor is in Exeter! Devon obviously has the best chiropractors!