[Closed] Call for Scottish teachers to have more holidays

(your English grammar is fairly poor)

Do you blame him or his teachers?

I'm not blaming anyone, my own English grammar is pisspoor, I simply made the comment to illustrate why I wasn't entirely sure what point he/she was trying to make.

I see what you mean, I suspected straight away he was not being supportive to teachers.

I suspect it means a polite, suck it up or change your job as life is tough for others also.

In a nut shell ...yes.

Yes my grammer is poor, a product of trying to do six things at the same time!

I suspected straight away he was not being supportive to teachers.

Yes I did too. I was however interested in his apparent suggestion that teachers are all claiming that they are hard done by. I wasn't entirely sure that was what he was saying due to his rather poor grammar. As you probably could have figured out if you had read my post more diligently.

Hmmm; who are these teachers who do little work and moan about how hard done by they are? It is just that,as a teacher myself,I don't know any. Strange that people with an axe to grind about teachers seem to know of plenty.

Can I have this teaching job, where it only takes 12 minutes to prepare a 1 hour lesson, please? Oh, and mark the work done within the lesson.

you didn't meet my old A level maths teacher, brilliant guy worked on the design of the Vulcan before teaching. Great teacher, if the results of the weekly test were down he used to blame himself for not getting the subject across

you also missed the bit about leaving 5 mins before the end of school to beat the rush and to get to the golf course 😀

Of the teachers I know ( one being my wife ), I wouldn't say they are looking for more holidays.

A lot of teachers comments seem to be similar to other professions in that the expectations on them are being increased ( or significantly changed ) without the resource being provided to meet those expectations. thats true of many jobs nowadays.

My wife puts in a lot of hours outwith her time at school, and she is a well organised person in general. Those hours add up to well more than the shortfall of a 9 till half 3 school opening hours period compared to an stereotype 9 till 5 office role. Any assumption that teachers have an easy time of it is in my opinion mis-placed.

But, as ever, its a role similar to the Police and other professions where doesn't really matter how you try to defend it, folk can't see past assumptions.

[quote=fisha ]compared to an stereotype 9 till 5 office role.
Another stereotype which received a fair beating on this forum last week.

whys that then colin ? i read the thread and i just saw people conforming to whats expected of them by the buckling of their peers

i do 8-4.30 anything outside that (and i do do a fair bit of outside hours work - not overtime but out of the country or offshore work) they pay me for or/and i get time in leiu.

why would you do anything else ? which in essence is what teachers / nurses / firemen etc are all being asked to do - work more hours for the same pay and the bottom line is this habit is doing folk out of jobs ..... but thats not the governments fault oh no !

i guess the short of it is the public sector in this country is ****ed- you really have to have a love your job to keep at it - i know thats the only reason mrs tr is still a teacher

[quote=trail_rat ]whys that then colin ? i read the thread and i just saw people conforming to whats expected of them by the buckling of their peers My point is that very few were saying they only worked 9-5, so as a stereotype, it's incorrect.

Whether folk [i]should[/i] work outwith those hours is a different argument.

you really have to have a love your job to keep at it - i know thats the only reason mrs tr is still a teacher

Myself and mrs clink are both teachers. We both hate it. If we could easily get other jobs and still pay the mortgage/bills etc we would.

I dont know any teachers who would seriously suggest they need more holidays ut having said that you can get more in the private sector if you want them. Ironic that really.

as a teacher myself, I would just like the goal posts of what the kids need to do to pass to stop moving. Science curriculum seems to be changed all the bloody time. Pay isnt too bad, but we'd all like more obviously. Pensions changes were a bloody disgrace given such a recent review. I'd also like to be not told I'm shit by Gove all the time and'd like the goal posts of what makes a good teacher to stop moving too. In short I'd like the politicians to stop interferring before any previou changes have had an effect.

I'd also like to be not told I'm shit by Gove all the time and'd like the goal posts of what makes a good teacher to stop moving too.

I agree. I don't want more holidays. I fact I would readily give up a couple of weeks to get my Sundays back during term time.

In fact I would readily give up a couple of weeks to get my Sundays back during term time.

Snap.

Last weekend was probably the last 2 day weekend I'll have until May.

In general, just because you went to school, it doesn't mean you are an expert on education. Unfortunatley, most people have a perception of teaching, and education more widely, as the act of standing in front of people regurgitating facts and recieved wisdom about this or that subject. Good teachers, lecturers, trainers and others (including sports coaches) excercise far more judgement than this and work hard to ensure that the approaches and techniques they use are effective for their particular learners. This takes time and preparation, as does organising interesting lessons, trips, activities, resources, and so on...

As somebody who works in Scottish education, with a wife who is a Depute Head Teacher too, I would suggest that most peoples understanding of what it really takes to deliver an effective education system is vastly out of alignment with reality. If you want kids to do well you need good teachers, with professionalism and the ability to make judgements about the best approaches to use. This requires the time to plan learning and develop their practice.

On the holidays front, my wife spends at least half of her holidays in school, she works from 8am -6pm everyday (always) and often works at weekends. This is expected and necessary to do her job. She has also said she would trade holiday entitlement for more flexibilty in when she takes her leave. She worked for 2 years on a Government secondment with far less holiday and said she would prefer this any day.

The bottom line is that teacher's contracts, and reports in the media, rarely reflect the reality of working in the profession. I think this is unfair to teachers and gives the impression they have it easy. They certainly don't.

As an aside, the Scottish education system is very different both historically, and currently, to the English system. Just to let you know that.

...and as with all the other public sector targets so carefully beaten on by a Tory Government in an attempt to soften them up and therefore reduce costs by reducing wages and pensions, in the long term it becomes self defeating for us as a country because the bright ones, the clever ones, the inspired ones, the valuable ones get pissed off and either don't become teachers or do and then leave.

Well done Tory people, well done. Just as the dirty shadow of Thatcher extended into the future, so Cameron will have his legacy.

Short term, morally bankrupt, self serving politicians, I've shit 'em.

the irony of all this is that not 1 post has mentioned the children, our future, and what this could mean to them.

I personally think children have too much time off school, whether holidays, in service days etc. This surely must harm their education.

On this basis the 'governors' need to subscribe to an ideal of what children have to learn whilst in education and under what time frame. If this means at school 40 weeks a year then so be it. We need to be teaching them about life and ideas of what work life constitutes. The teachers then take hoildays in conjunction with this schedule.

The teachers i know, and i know alot do work hard, and put in the hours and are paid accordingly. I also understand that with alot of time off this means they spend alot of money ( if your not earning your spending philosophy). Like any job you sign up to an ideal, a portrait of work in that role. Things you will know for certain, i.e. your holiday entitlement, your pay, your benefits, the expectations, the uniform, the hours etc, some things you only learn through doing the job i.e. the real hours needed to do the job, the real expectations.

Unfortunately there is many roles similiar to teachers just now, some easier, some tougher with expectations of : hard work alone will not be enough to succeed. Teachers have a voice which is nationally heard nearly every year, alot of jobs are not. Its quite simple though, the UK is in a dire place just now economically and for the time being if you dont like it then leave your job, find another one and be happy.No one is forcing you to do the job of your choice. Sometimes it is shit, but we have to pull up our waders and get through it

I personally think children have too much time off school, whether holidays, in service days etc. This surely must harm their education.

Seriously? You ever hear of the concept of 'less is more'?

No one is forcing you to do the job of your choice. Sometimes it is shit, but we have to pull up our waders and get through it

[i]and for the time being if you dont like it then leave your job, find another one and be happy[/i]

Hurrah.

so the issue of educating the next generation is left to those left behind, those who can't get another job, those who don't have the get up and go, the enthusiasm to do something else. Then, in 6-10-15 years time, when we are being run rings around by nations who actually value education, we can moan and whinge and blame the teachers again.

Brilliant work, do keep it up. Along with all the others who know the cost of everything and haven't got the basic intelligence to work out the value of anything. We are actually doomed as any kind of economic power, largely because of attitudes like this.

This may sound like a naive question, but if there's a common curriculum, why not a common lesson plan? From an outsiders perspective it seems a massive waste of time if every night thousands of teachers are creating individual lesson plans to teach the same stuff.

From an outsiders perspective it seems a massive waste of time if every night thousands of teachers are creating individual lesson plans to teach the same stuff.

Ian Munro every child and every class is different. I currently have three year 7 groups who are all very different with very different needs. I also teach 3 different courses to four different year 11 groups. Its all science but not all the same.

Roggidir or whatever your name is. Why should kids have to learn about work life?

I personally think children have too much time off school, whether holidays, in service days etc. This surely must harm their education.

My kids (aged 7 and 9) are knackered by the end of a term; [i]they[/i] need the time off. At work, my students (16-19) are also knackered by the end of a term; [i]they[/i] need the time off.

Plus, kids should be able to be kids. They're not production units, they're children.

This may sound like a naive question, but if there's a common curriculum, why not a common lesson plan? From an outsiders perspective it seems a massive waste of time if every night thousands of teachers are creating individual lesson plans to teach the same stuff.

There's a common curriculum (though, actually, that's going), but we don't have common children.

Even in my nice, high-achieving sixth form college where we select based on attainment at GCSE, the classes and year groups differ from year to year and from class to class. I use broadly the same materials each year with each class, but they're adjusted and modified to take account of individual needs. Schools do buy in resources and materials, but you can't just throw them at the class.

Personally, I think Gove is trying to degrade the profession to enough of a degree that we end up buying in approved resources from publishing companies and delivering those. There's no money to be made from professionals creating and sharing their own individualised resources.

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I just don't know how I am going to cope, it's 5 weeks till my next 2 week holiday. 😆