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This worked well for the Greece thread, so, for someone who's well out of touch with current feelings towards immigration in the UK, what's the score?
I was last living in the UK around 7 years ago and amongst the people I worked with the general feeling was that classrooms were too big, healthcare waiting lists were too long and we were sending too much money overseas for people to buy guns and have civil wars. People (again, generally) didn't seem to have a lot of time for Johnny Foreigner.
Nowadays I'm detecting a lot of sympathy from people towards immigrants / refugees etc. I assume that classrooms are still too big and there are still waiting lists for hospitals, so what has changed people's attitudes?
Can people who pay human traffickers 10k or more to get them across Europe really be considered as economic refugees? Aren't the real refugees the people trapped in tented camps relying on aid so that they can eat once a day?
I'd be interested to hear the "man in the streets" (or man on a bikes) view?
Edit : I posted on the wrong thread, sorry
Haiku?
Want to be British?
Everyone does, it seems.
Apart from the Scots.
^^ Post of the Month
Where has this bollox come from about these refugees in Calais paying smugglers 10k to get there? It is just another lie to misrepresent the desperation of their situation.
My only feeling is of sorrow for the poor blighters. Imagine what life at home must be like if you have to resort to that.
Have you got the figures to hand as to how much they do pay smugglers, on average, MSP?
Isn't that a haiku fail? Only 6 syllables in the second line..
Not in my back yard!
That's five words....sorry!
Are they really refugees? They are in a perfectly civilized country (France) free from whatever drove them from their home country (if anything). The only reason to "break into" UK is the possibility of more money.
Have you got the figures to hand as to how much they do pay smugglers, on average, MSP?
Do you? Do you have any evidence that they paid anybody to smuggle them there?
There once was a man at a port
who suddenly had a thought
'if i get on this lorry,
I'll never be sorry
as they'll give me a car and a flat when i get caught.'
[i]Isn't that a haiku fail? Only 6 syllables in the second line..[/i]
and no seasonal inference
The only reason to "break into" UK is the possibility of more money.
They probably believe the same myths as all the racist cocks, about gold paved streets free homes and money growing on trees.
I would guess the guy who owns the boat that crosses the Med doesn't do it for charitable reasons. No idea what the "Fare" would be though? Your first born perhaps?
People desperate to flee squalid, dangerous lives headed to Europe to find a better life.
Some have chosen Britain as there final destination for various reasons - quite a few speak English as a second language so it's practical, some might have the idea The UK is some kind of garden of Eden - but really it's tabloid scaremongering to suggest every migrant from Africa and the Middle East wants to make it to the UK.
Calais is an obvious pinch point - it's the major port to reach the UK and security is tight - this is not a 'new' thing - there have been camps there for years.
In recent months the migrants have changed tactics and have become more brazen - this is causing delays in Calais which is pissing off holiday makers and truckers alike, be then there's been a lot of industrial action too which has been as big a factor.
Which all leads to the now probably decade old question - how to do you solve the problem of migrants with so many xenophobic voters in the UK? Theyll be waving thier Daily Mails from behind thier net curtains if we allow any to come to the UK, France was pretty tolerant to them living in camps until we pressured them to tear them down but won't give them asylum and the migrants won't head back east. I suspect like every year previously the holiday season will end, the general public will stop caring about crossing the channel and we'll forget about them till next summer.
Thanks Pjay that was very astute!
Is France allowed to not give them asylum?
It's 'jazz haiku' you peasants.
Jazz, with an 'a'
Trucker's arse tightens.
Fat man sweats in summer heat.
**** this for a wage.
If they could get asylum in France then they would, then they'd just be able to buy a ticket and walk into the UK,
Sum it up for a foreigner please?
Media is scaremongering because there's no news this week.
It's a tiny number in real migration terms. Let them in and kick some of the dross out.
This country was built on hard working migrants.
If they could get asylum in France then they would, then they'd just be able to buy a ticket and walk into the UK,
Not true.
France takes in as many, if not more, foreign migrants as we do. Germany takes in more. We're somewhere in the middle in terms of immigration to the EU according to most sets of statistics. We just have the stupid, selfish view that all foreign migrants want to come to the UK, and want to come to sponge off the state.
Some people's desperation has driven them thousands of miles from their homes, repeatedly risking their lives, in search of a chance of life free from war or persecution or poverty, and this annoys people in the UK because they can't drive down the M20 quite as quickly as usual.
Some people's desperation has driven them thousands of miles from their homes, repeatedly risking their lives, in search of a chance of life free from war or persecution or poverty, and this annoys people in the UK because they can't drive down the M20 quite as quickly as usual
I get all of that. But why should people not be able to "drive down the M20 quite as quickly as usual"?
Once these desperate migrants have reached either Greece or Italy they are to the best of my knowledge free from war. European laws apply in relation to persecution and states have their own aid systems
If the UK is their ultimate destination then there are systems for that rather than resorting to criminality and the bad publicity that brings, not to mention the huge costs in policing both here and in France, costs to haulage companies, "just in time" manufacturing, etc
How long before they use the boat on the med tactic across the channel.....
Zulus, thousands of them.........
I understood it, that refugees / asylum seekers should register in the first country they arrive in - i.e the other end of Europe?
I remember something about Germany claiming that as refugees traveled [i]through[/i] their country, technically they did not set foot (or "arrive") - therefore have no reason to "provide" asylum to them.
Polite way of saying "Not our problem"
Let them in, what's the worst that can happen?
bencooper - Member
Let them in, what's the worst that can happen?
There will be a net cost to the state that extrapolates over years to come?
Surely if it's housing, healthcare and eductaion they want, the Scotland is where they want to be going?
It's a difficult subject. Obviously the only real solution is to sort out properly whatever it is that's going on in their own country so they don't have to leave. That however isn't going to be simple or even acheivable.
Anyway, it's not just the UK that's affecte by this. We are only getting the ones that still want to come here - there must be loads spread out around Europe.
Of course, the Americans have an immigration issue too. But they have Donald Trump, who makes Farage look like a choirboy in comparison!
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/31/politics/donald-trump-immigration-policy-breakdown-2016/
Nuke the site from orbit.
Mackem - Member
Are they really refugees? They are in a perfectly civilized country (France) free from whatever drove them from their home country (if anything). The only reason to "break into" UK is the possibility of more money.
Hadn't really given that much thought but good point. Surely any other critical reasons to enter the UK don't warrant the angst/hassle they are subjecting themselves too? I appreciate they clearly believe it does but the genuine reasons might be enlightening in helping resolve the problem?
Sounds a bit like the people you see who drive past several perfectly good parking places in Tescos car park to try and get a place right next to the door. Turns out the ones right next to the door are for disabled people only, but they park there anywyay, cos - what you gonna do about it?
The irony is it appears quite a lot of Brits would quite like to live in France....
Nuke the site from orbit.
Probably take out most of Dover. Gets my vote 😯
Isn't that a haiku fail? Only 6 syllables in the second line..
How many syllables in "Everyone"?
Is there a chance that the people who got them across to mainland Europe will have promised them jobs and/or accommodation in the UK?
Perhaps some have friends, family or other community contacts here?
Perhaps they've been told it's where they will find a warm, safe welcome and they are keen to get off the side of the road so that they can start making arrangements for families left back home in danger?
Starting the big dangerous journey to safety, wealth and freedom must be scary, and then to arrive into hostile Europe, perhaps having been told it was the UK, perhaps a Europe where the authorities are shepherding them towards the UK (we're only getting info from the press, who knows)
There are plenty of reasons for frightened, desperate folk to try to get here, rather than staying on the continent.. Projecting our own fat indolent motives onto them and assuming the reason is greed because that's the only thing we understand is pretty ****ing ugly
I'm guessing that many will have some ability to speak English rather than, say, German. Although French must be reasonably common too.
I must admit to not knowing the ins and outs of the French industrial action until I read about it this morning.
5 points
1) There are lots of poor people in the world who'd like to live in a rich country
2) If you can claim you've been tortured / live in a war zone you can claim asylum which gives you a route to 1)
3) The (ludicrous) EU Shrengen agreement allows people to enter the EU illegally and then travel freely within it, no country wants to arrest these people as as soon as they do the will claim asylum in that country. Hence the French very eager to palm off as many to the UK as possible. Whatever criminal offence they commit in France / Calais they will no be arrested
4) The UK got wise to 3) by not signing Shrengen and has acted to discourage economic asylum seekers by granting very few applications. Sadly we are not allowed on detain asylum applicants so many disappear within the UK
5) The cost of asylum seekers is very high. For example Kent council has 100's of unaccompanied children who have requested asylum, they will be costing the state £30-£40-£50k ? per year. Economic disruption to movement of goods is substantial as are the policing costs.
@yunki those coming know if they can get asylum they will get housing, living expenses and get to remain in one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Many others will know they can work illegally in poor conditions but still much better off than they where before. I reall do not believe it's about people joining family/friends.
How about if, for every one we let in, we deport one BNP/EDL mouthbreather?
How many syllables in "Everyone"?
I count three:
How many syllables in /?vr?w?n/?
3.
Pfft.
I'm with Van on this one.
Would you argue with Belfast's grumpiest man?
🙂
Bollocks,