Staying calm and not being triggered into panic / stress behaviour is key.
I had a senior colleague say to me once “This department cannot fail”
The response to which is "oh, it absolutely can unless you sort your shit out."
A manager that isn't managering ain't worth shit, that responsibility rolls upwards not downwards.
I'm sorry I haven't read all the posts but I do have empathy with your position. I know it's really hard to have perspective when you're struggling away with what feels like an impossible task, but when you are able to take (or life forces you to take) a perspective shift then it will feel obvious that change is needed and you're the only one who is going to care enough to make that change happen.
Good advice I try to use is 'what would you advise a mate in the same position?'. I bet it wouldn't be 'suck it up and crack on'.
Good luck, you sound good at your job and diligent, people who have those two attributes are rarely out of work.
I'm going to second what tj said: get it all in writing.
I know from past experience that stuff you've discussed and agreed means nothing unless you have proof. I made that mistake once with people I thought I could trust, never again. At the end of each meeting write down agreed bullet points then email them and ask for confirmation.
Just a thought, you are the health safety manager, you should be responsible for strategy not BAU, as a manager I expect to be responsible for the daily stuff and that includes writing safe methods of work, sourcing PPE and safety equipment, arranging core training, auditing my teams etc. Most businesses don't need multiple people in H & S roles, managers will shirk their duties and more importantly their responsibilities as that's H & S's job.
Where I am now the H & S manager is massively inexperienced but doesn't know it. This results in them buying PPE and doing the most basic RAMS etc., since I started I've expected my team to do all that stuff, we own it, we're responsible for it. What I need from an H & S manager is warning and advice when legislation changes, top level policies and practical advice when we're struggling, pretty much what I want from HR support.
I've had several H & S managers who were ex forces, all were pretty rubbish to be honest, worked themselves into a mess because they were so rules orientated rather than developing an H & S culture, lots of petty rules that became box ticking exercises which then became our H & S culture and did nothing to lessen real risks around the work place.
Have a think about what you are doing, I bet a lot of it should be being done by line managers.
‘what would you advise a mate in the same position?’.
Just going to call this out as a hugely valuable question. Everyone will try to protect their mates/family from crap situations even if they won't protect themselves. Use this question when you need to.
I’m sorry I haven’t read all the posts but I do have empathy with your position. I know it’s really hard to have perspective when you’re struggling away with what feels like an impossible task, but when you are able to take (or life forces you to take) a perspective shift then it will feel obvious that change is needed and you’re the only one who is going to care enough to make that change happen.
This. I’m currently tired having 0 days off since Christmas, stressed becuase the market isn’t buying and I’m under pressure to justify a new market software entrant, and a highly potential customer has just scheduled a demo / exploratory meet in the middle of Easter when we are at Center Parcs. It isn’t far away and I could be there, meet and back in 4 hrs missing the middle of the day with the kids and am struggling to think what to do.
Reschedule.
Tell the customer you are on an Easter break with your family.
Tell them you are on leave. If it’s specialist software, they aren’t just going to buy something else because of a couple of days delay.
am struggling to think what to do.
Then you're a fool.
You're on holiday with your family, by your own admission well-needed and long overdue. Any customer - sorry, potential customer - who is going to throw their toys out of the pram because of a rescheduled meeting, you likely don't want as a customer anyway because they're going to be a pain in the arse.
Plus, if no-one else in the company can do it then you're a single point of failure and that's a problem (for them). What would they do if you handed in your notice on Monday?
Unless you're a shareholder or on a six-figure salary, I'm astonished that you're even entertaining the idea let alone struggling over it.
and am struggling to think what to do.
I know that dilemma. Sit there for the week worrying it, and not being fully there in mind with your family as you are stressed, or take 4 hours out of your day to get it sorted. That will put you in a better mindset for the whole week.
When I was employed, I would often take calls whilst I was away on holiday, but would never take my laptop with me , so it was just a conversation rather than proper work. The joys of working for small companies I guess, where each individual has an important role and you don’t have countless others than can fill in for you. They never really took the piss though , and I could always be “not near my phone “ if I couldn’t be arsed.
Now I have my own company , it’s part and parcel with the job. I’ve spent time working on holiday ( clients always seem to time signing jobs off with the school holidays 🙄). I’ll wait until the kids are in bed , or slip off for a couple of hours to get stuff done, with the wife’s approval 😉.
I have had the odd time where I have had to go to site , so I’ve taken one or both of the kids with me *
* I actually do some interesting stuff , so it’s a decent day out for them and they see things that most people wouldn’t get a chance to.
and am struggling to think what to do.
I can't tell you what to do as I don’t know the details of your situation.
All I know is that when I’m on holiday emails/texts/calls go unanswered. I’ve learnt that decent customers don’t mind and the ones who throw toys around can sod off elsewhere.
Any customer – sorry, potential customer – who is going to throw their toys out of the pram
Well now I didnt say that would happen.
I’m astonished that you’re even entertaining the idea let alone struggling over it.
Because I get paid as an outcome of what I sell and after I sell it. My personal reputation is part of that as is the need to pay the bills. The higher chance of getting it sold with all of the tiny factors added in that leads to that outcome is what's conflating me.
I know rescheduling it is the best answer, but it isn't the only answer. I posted as an example of Burnout at work not for advice although I appreciate the responses. This:
struggling to think what to do
should have been:
struggling to decide which option is best.
What memories are going to pass before you as you leave the mortal plane? Time with loved ones or selling some software?
I know this is easier said than done, rearrange, explain you are on leave and you'll meet them as soon as you get back. You will be refreshed and in a better place.
What memories are going to pass before you as you leave the mortal plane? Time with loved ones or selling some software?
It’s four hours …… pretty sure the kids can find something interesting to do and won’t even miss him 😉
pretty sure the kids can find something interesting to do
Crazy Golf and Pedalo's, but twisted pencil is right.
They are buying the software, not a relationship with you. Go on holiday and deal with it when you are back
It's not four hours, there's mental prep work for it and mentally processing the meeting afterwards. I've done it in the past, it's not worth it. I now plan holidays that have piss poor mobile and data connections 😀
Some would also say 4hrs away from Centre Parcs is a win! 🤣
And there’s loads of people on here who think nothing of going for a big ride while staying at Centre Parcs.
But It’s easy for us to sit and judge. My dad used to cancel a full weeks holiday so he could get a job completed.
Crazy Golf and Pedalo’s, but twisted pencil is right.
Yes, of course TP is right, but ultimately…
Because I get paid as an outcome of what I sell and after I sell it. My personal reputation is part of that as is the need to pay the bills. The higher chance of getting it sold with all of the tiny factors added in that leads to that outcome is what’s conflating me.
Week at Pontins in Brean next year then 😎
This. I’m currently tired having 0 days off since Christmas, stressed becuase the market isn’t buying and I’m under pressure to justify a new market software entrant, and a highly potential customer has just scheduled a demo / exploratory meet in the middle of Easter when we are at Center Parcs. It isn’t far away and I could be there, meet and back in 4 hrs missing the middle of the day with the kids and am struggling to think what to do.
I really hope you're being paid very well or are on a good bonus scheme for this because these are things a company shareholder should be concerned by, not an employee. And that company shareholder will usually be delegating the 'doing' to someone else to give themself time to worry about everything.
Because I get paid as an outcome of what I sell and after I sell it. My personal reputation is part of that as is the need to pay the bills.
OK, that's fair. Point stands though, if they're going to be nobby about you taking a weekend off then they're probably going to be more trouble than they're worth long-term. I've seen this particular movie before. The more of an arse someone is pre-sales, the more likely that their Arsehole Quotient is going to rise exponentially after the empowerment of how much money they've just handed over.
Me, I'd be off to Center Parcs with a spring in my step and a wildly optimistic hope that the rumours from Mumsnet are true. The whole point of a holiday is to get away from work and unwind. Taking out half a day (plus the whole mental process either side) defeats the object, you may as well be in the office.
It's a few days, they can wait or they'd have paid up already. Can you bring the meeting forward maybe? (Since when do customers schedule demos anyway, isn't that your job? Who agreed to it on your side? What would you do if it clashed with another customer meeting rather than a holiday?)
Assertive is the middle ground. “Well, yes, I can do that, but it’ll be on Tuesday at the earliest unless you’d rather I dropped a different task to prioritise this one?”
I'm currently looking at Q3 2024 to solve urgent issues that need dealing with before end of June this year.
struggling to decide which option is best.
Least bad you mean.
As a salesman of medium enterprise software I fully understand why you should feel the need to break your holiday to do the presentation.
I once had to leave our holiday stay in Norfolk to nip up to Bradford to accompany my prospect on a site visit. Still it meant that I was able to get a takeaway from The Karachi for the family evening meal. And even better, to leave a menu in the pile in the rental. I still smile thinking about the conversation at the end of the order. "What's the address? Where's Sheringham? Is that up Little Horton Lane?"
Any chance of making it 5 days at center parcs? 4 hours is no big deal.
On the other hand when you say you've had no days off since Christmas are you including weekends? You need some days off if so.
I’m currently looking at Q3 2024 to solve urgent issues that need dealing with before end of June this year.
Oops 🙂
'My personal reputation is part of that as is the need to pay the bills.'
Your reputation will be that you're cannon fodder, and honestly , who actually cares. That had better be some damn good software
The graveyard is full of irreplaceable people.
If there's still work that needs doing after 5 o'clock - it's not my problem there isn't enough people to do it🤷♂️
Don’t worry about notice periods, you can start a new job tomorrow. Theoretically your current employer could sue you for breach of contract but not a realistic outcome. When they bleat at you just total up the extra hours you’ve done which unfortunately probably equals more than your notice period.
I’ve had the work induced nervous breakdown, two months on the sick, renegotiated the whole job but still left and not looked back.
If there’s still work that needs doing after 5 o’clock – it’s not my problem there isn’t enough people to do it
Unless you're not quick enough, anyway. There's a few staff I can think of in my place whose output is far lower than some others who also still finish at 5.
Pretty much every answer on this thread is spot on. I hope you listen to it OP.
I started saying NO a few years ago. It really is scary, you think you’re going to be treated as a dickhead. It takes balls to start saying No after years of just getting in with everything. But after a few firm No’s it’s like a new beginning. It means you can all agree what is and isn’t going to get done. When someone disagrees, they get to decide which things get replaced in the stop pile, they don’t get both things in the Go pile.
Try it. You might quite enjoy it.
Oh and turn your phone OFF at weekends and put it in a drawer and don’t charge it. Those things are like the sirens of the lake, they’ll drag you in!
Just say no. One of our senior managers was having a turnip as I wouldn’t answer my phone to him. Advised him to call before half three as I finish then and won’t be taking calls after that. Firms will chew you up and spit you out wrecking family life and relationships. Be more French and take care of you and yours.
Just on my issue... I asked the customer politely to move the date and they have moved it back a week, problem solved, uninterrupted holiday! Well, one problem solved anyway but another arose - my presales SME who would demo the software to requirements is on leave that day.... I'll figure that out later!
my presales SME who would demo the software to requirements is on leave that day…. I’ll figure that out later!
Am I missing something here? This is how meetings work, you negotiate a time when everyone who needs to be included is available. Can the customer not push it back eight days instead of seven?
(apologies, I've got you and the OP crossed in my head)
