If it's happening within the school and the extrafamilial settings to/from the school have a read of the schools safeguarding policy which will be under "policies" on their website.
Focus on and around the "child on child abuse" area.
Have a read up on a .gov document called Keeping Children Safe In Education 2023.
Both of the above spell out how the school should respond.
The school website will identify who their designated safeguarding lead is and book an appointment with them to air your concerns.
Ask for a child on child risk assessment to be drawn up and shared with you for your approval.
Book another meeting with the DSL to review progress.
To those saying "punch back" in many schools these days you may as well just say "take a knife to school" - be careful with your advice on advocating violence.
I’d be cautious about starting martial arts.
It entirely possible it might help, giving him the confidence and skills to defend himself. On the other hand, it may make him think that what you want, as is father, is for him to toughen up.
And thinking about my own childhood experience of it, it may just not suit him. I wasn’t bullied as a child, but I started martial arts at 9 years old because I wanted to be like my dad. I found I just got hit a lot by boys who seemed to really enjoy hitting people, and I never much enjoyed the feeling of hitting back. I stopped after a few months.
No way of knowing beforehand, but I wanted to share my experience of being the nerdy kid in the martial arts club.
To those saying “punch back” in many schools these days you may as well just say “take a knife to school” – be careful with your advice on advocating violence.
Agreed - I don't understand why people think that it is acceptable to teach a child that using violence is the answer.
Similar situation our daughter is finding herself in. Popular girl/ boy have class votes to decide if they ‘like’ someone. Then they have a public ‘breakup’ ceremony where they make everyone promise not to play or be friends. This started in playground but now also happens round her class table. Absolutely gutting to hear how sad she feels about it, however there has been some light at the end of the tunnel.
one friend stayed true, which encouraged 3 more. My daughter couldn’t see the wood for the trees until we sat down for a gentle chat and then ‘no friends’ was 4 friends. <br /><br />
secondly we made it very clear to the school and teachers what was happening and the effects, they have made efforts to suppress and discuss with the class and individuals.
I’m grateful my wife is so level headed as without her steering I’d be going down the smack them in the chops route as my daughter is big enough and fiery enough when she gets going, but she’s also incredibly sensitive and caring and I wouldn’t really want her to change.
got my sympathy dude, being a parent is f’ing tough!
@DT78 - the only advice I can give that works is to keep on at the school about it, as often as you need to. They have access to plenty of resources to deal with it but getting them to start the process can be difficult. If you get nowhere with the school don't be afraid to go to the school board or even your local MP, it can get things moving.
Same here, I got bullied in school a lot by a particular clique, not punched or anything, but constant name calling and pulling on my jumper and general shitty roughness and verbal humiliation.
Only in school, mind.
One day I smacked the main culprit square on the nose. lots of blood. I almost got expelled, but after a lot of hoo-har betwen my parents, the school and the bullys parents, I was moved to a different form as we were in the same group, and under strict instruction to never talk to him again. I was fine with that.
I also achieved legendary status amongst my peers at the time though, and even some of the real bullies, so there is that.
I detest violence, but some times a good punch and a nose bleed is the only thing some people understand.
Another one here who got bullied relentlessly all through school but also outside of it too and it was regularly violent as well as mental. The schools did pretty much nothing for me, primary school was horrible but secondary was even worse. I was literally hiding every break time from everyone as the bullies were numerous, I must have had a big target on me. Far too much to list here, it was genuinely all day, every day and has left quite a few mental scars and the odd physical one too. It all came to a head one day after school and while I was walking to Scouts (parents thought it would be good for me, it was full of my bullies so hated it) and two lads from school decided they wanted to beat me up. Something snapped in me and I somehow managed to make one of them hit a wall so hard with is head that there was blood everywhere and he was unconscious. This was the early 90's so no mobile phones so a guy in the house over the road saw it all happen and phoned 999. I just stood there with his blood on my jumper in a state of shock, the second bully was crying and babbling incoherently. I don't remember the rest until I was in the local police station being interviewed, not fun when you're 12. I was suspended from school for nearly a week while things were looked into and eventually let back after the second bully finally admitted they set on me first. The bully with the head injury was in hospital for a week but then made a full recovery, he gave me a wide berth for the rest of my time in school but that didn't stop everyone else so it made no real difference to my life in school. In fact it probably made it worse as I was now a target for revenge attacks. Thankfully one teacher took things seriously after I ended up in hospital with a broken back and I was given the option to have my school lunches away from everyone else as it was noticed I wasn't eating at school at all. I would go to this classroom and eat my lunch then be let back out, I quickly figured out that the longer it took me to eat the longer I was away from the bullies and to this day I'm a slow eater and will not be rushed. Just one of the permanent scars the bullies have left.
I must still have a target on me though as even leaving school (I went to a crap college rather than sixth form just to escape) didn't stop it as one or two of the bullies took the same route, continued to bully me and new bullies would join in. I've even suffered bullying in university and in various jobs I've had too, I just can't escape it.
To any parent: please get any instances of bullying looked into by the school or wherever it is happening. The effects on your child can and do effect adulthood if it's not dealt with immediately. I know there is a lot more support out there than there was when I grew up but if you don't let someone know it's happening them it's all useless. If your kid turns out to be a bully then please do everything you can to get them to stop, they are doing real harm to others.
Small world indeed! I stopped training regularly '96.
Thankfully one teacher took things seriously after I ended up in hospital with a broken back and I was given the option to have my school lunches away from everyone else as it was noticed I wasn’t eating at school at all.
I mean good on the teacher doing something but what an annoying response that is. How about making the bullies eat their lunch separated every day instead?
The school was in denial saying there wasn't a problem with bullying at their school. They're still like it now, even saying they don't have a drugs issue either. The amount of stoned kids wandering around at lunch times and immediately after school says otherwise.
A lot of the moves they teach are to break a grip so you can run
That's an approach I can get behind. Or rather, in front of. 😁
I detest violence, but some times a good punch and a nose bleed is the only thing some people understand.
100%.
As anyone here who has met me will attest, I'm the last person to be dishing out a physical response. But one lucky shot can be life-changing.
I was sat on the grass in the rec (park) outside school that lunchtime, minding my own business. My primary aggressor came over unsolicited to give me a kicking for the crime of existing and suddenly out of nowhere the red mist descended. I sprang up and ****ed him with my lunchbox, he copped three+ years of anguish, rage, torment, pain, fury and lemon curd sandwiches full in the face. He landed about six feet away. I absolutely leathered the bastard, I had to be dragged off him.
Did the beatings stop? From him, no. But they were far less frequent and far, far less one-sided from there on in. From everyone else? In an instant.
I don’t understand why people think that it is acceptable to teach a child that using violence is the answer.
I'm not advocating anything, just sharing an anecdote. This was thirty-mumble years ago, times change. I would hope that the deployment of grown-ups would be more effective than a targeted application of something from the Thermos Roughneck range these days.
Interesting how this thread has brought out alot of people with similar experiences to my own (had to fight back). Not too many positive experiences of resolution, but some which have helped! I'm feeling slightly better having just talked about it with mostly random strangers - its helped structure the problem a bit more.
Anyway I may well take him along to TKD, primarily as I think he'll enjoy it and I'll get to see my old club. I doubt my knees and hips will be able to hold out. Currently he has it drilled into him it is unacceptable to hit, and if he does that is letting the bullies win, as that is exactly the rise they are looking for, and it will get him into trouble, and they will continue to laugh and do it more. I think he has hit the main bully once about two years ago after he'd been goaded after school for hours. To be honest my wife should have just got him out of there as she said she could see what was happening. Anyway that was when he was 6, a quarter of his life ago....
School have yet to respond for the request for contact, so it'll be grabbing the teacher at pick up thats needed. Right in front of the other parent I imagine. That'll help the situation....but it needs to be talked about.
Thanks for all your advice
I don’t understand why people think that it is acceptable to teach a child that using violence is the answer.
How would you deal with physical assault?
How would you deal with physical assault?
By getting appropriate help.
Don't hit back
Standard answer from people who weren't bullied on a daily basis at school.
Don’t hit back
Standard answer from people who weren’t bullied on a daily basis at school.
Sigh.
There's a big difference between defending yourself and reciprocating an assault.
In 25 years teaching and 12 of those as a pastoral leader (all of those in schools in some of the most deprived wards in the UK), I've NEVER seen a bullying situation resolved by two kids giving each other a mutual leathering.
I’ve told both my boys that if they start a fight they are in an awful lot of trouble. <br />But. <br />It felt much better to fight back when I was a kid than to take a beating and seek a peaceful resolution later (plus telling a teacher got you ****ted all over again).<br />So they are allowed (by me) to defend themselves vigorously and they know they will have my support if it ends up in front of a teacher. <br />The game changer however was clubs in adjacent catchment areas, when school was tough they could look forward to clubs. That bred confidence and that put the brakes on the misery-go-round. <br />Best of luck to all the parents and kids out there having a crap time.
Karate
My sister put my nephews in starting age 6(they're both in early 20's now) to help prevent against bullying, give them confidence etc . Both black belt(3rd dan) Eldest nephew is an instructor, assistant Sensei and both are going to Japan next year to train there.
Both are very much into fitness, gym,weights and the like.
.
Funny thing is, when youngest nephew went travelling to east Asia with his GF, I was naturally a bit concerned for his safety. Sis reminded me, he's 6'2" about 90kg, pretty much solid muscle, and a 3rd dan black belt. 😆
I hit a bully once - as someone above, square on the nose, lots of blood, no real damage. Helped a bit but yes it did make me feel a whole load better.
But (old man alert) times are different now and the process of escalation is way scarier than it was 40 years ago.
He's a thug, so I'll learn self defence or karate, turns into he knows karate so I'll bring knuckledusters or a knife to school to scare him. My wife works at a comp in Guildford and it's not uncommon for there to be an incident with a kid showing off such items to their mates. And kids don't always have the powers of rational thought to think out the what-if's properly. If we had we'd not be escalating to fists but stakes are higher now. So while I love the idea for self discipline, fitness, sport and comradeship and so on - I don't like it as a deterrent in the way we might have 'used' it.
I don’t understand why people think that it is acceptable to teach a child that using violence is the answer.
Violence isn't the answer, but it is an answer and one that you may have to give.
You're better off as you've already identified trying to equip little humans with other techniques to avoid conflict altogether.
For those that have never had to throw hands, be humble in appreciation that you've not had the same experiences or childhood as others. Nor live in an adult world where that is a reality.
Some are a little less lucky, so preaching your morality is condescending at best.
For some reason, my parents moved to a little Welsh mining village in the 80s. We were the only English family there. Every day, I'd come home with a black eye or a fat lip. School weren't interested as the staff were as racist as the kids, stepdad wouldn't approach other parents as he wanted to fit in.
There comes a time when you realise that you can just take a kicking, or dish some out on the way down.
And that's what started to change things. Working my way up the class hierarchy of who was hardest. My only mistake was working up one at a time. Should have gone straight to the top. I'll not claim any of them were friends, but it made living in a toxic racist environment a lot more bearable to be left alone.
I know it's not the modern way and you say there can be some negative traits from having to deal like that, but there are also some good ones.
You gain confidence and independence from sorting your own problems and you also find you never put up with bullies again in your life. Trust me, there will be more, probably not physical, but there will be more. They quickly work out who will take shit from them and who won't.
Don’t hit back
Standard answer from people who weren’t bullied on a daily basis at school.<br /><br />
I was bullied at boarding school, and at home in the holidays.
I did hit back at school. It didn’t help.
These days with some kids carrying knives etc, telling kids to escalate is dangerous IMO.
Bullying is about the bully, not the person who is being bullied. The way to deal with it is to bring it out into the open and talk about it.
For years of my life I had fantasies about fighting back at home. And that’s all they were, fantasies, because actually, if I had, it would have just escalated things and made it worse.
The thing that helped me, and I believe that helps others, including children, is being in situations where my self worth could grow. ie being around people who appreciated me for who I was.
Got the hitting back nonsense too - OK if you are physically up to it. Whenever I tried it it ended very badly and occasionally in hospital. Intimidation through violence works both ways.
Bullies take on those who are crap at fighting.
Schools are useless most of the time- Either cant or just wont deal with the problem.
son changed school and when he got there he was told not mess with one boy. Son told them he was an idiot at the school they had both been at previously and wasn’t scared of him. Three boys punching and kicking him every day. And nobody would play with him as they were told not by the bully boy.
Wife had told him to never hit anyone so he just stood at took it. I had to start taking him to school and he would not want to go in until the last moment as he didn’t want anybody knowing he had been crying.
He did judo at school, so I told him not to take it any more. He threw one boy hard on his back and he banged his head. Which led to a meeting with the parents of all involved and the teachers. He was the only one who admitted to hitting/hurting any of them. Wife had pictures of all the marks on his arms and legs.
Stopped after this, but he refused to shake hands with any of them which I thought was ace. How does a hand shake make up for weeks of hell.
Violence is not the answer but as always its easy to comment when the situation is not directly affecting you.
In 25 years teaching and 12 of those as a pastoral leader (all of those in schools in some of the most deprived wards in the UK), I’ve NEVER seen a bullying situation resolved by two kids giving each other a mutual leathering.
Good.
So what does resolve it?
It’s really difficult, because if you follow the recommended route* for dealing with it: raise it with the class teacher; then the head if it still isn’t resolved; then the governors, a lot of the onus is on the person being bullied to walk away, talk to parents/teachers about it (when they may not want to), document everything etc. We were lucky in that it was solved at the head teacher stage. Many schools are under-resourced to deal with this.
* if you google what to do about bullying you’ll get this - none of the standard responses from the anti-bullying charities and helplines will say to fight back (understandably).
Super weird. Still getting a 403 when I try to post a proper response.
None of that is belittling the horrible impact of bullying on some people's lives, or denying the lived experience of those who do fight back BTW.
Try and get it sorted as soon as you can, and make sure you support you son, and let him tell you whats going on in his way, what you have been told so far, may not be the true extent of it.
Hopefully the school will be on it as well.
I was bullied to shit as a kid, and kept a lot of it hidden from my folks as i was ahsamed that i was weak.
I wrote a very long and involved piece and thought better of it. The way I solved the situation is not something i would recomend to others and had serious repercussions, but i dont regret my actions for a minute.
