Bullying - son aged 8

I have no practical advice to give (mine are much younger) other than to say, you sound like an absolutely brilliant parent and you are actively taking steps to help your son, including posting here. 

Talk to his teacher and express your concerns, particularly re bruises. At that age teachers should be able to deal with it to some degree. 

Athletics can be plenty social, I see the junior club training near me (and have run with plenty of them when they get to mid teens). I think he could use it to make friends for sure. Does he actually like football? If not, sack it off and get him some new hobbies!

He needs to mock them back.  If it gets physical he needs to punch back.

Walking away has been tried. Doesn't work - they follow him.  Sorry, it sounds glib, but if there are no consequences for bullying someone then it'll continue.

Sadly talking from experience.

Andy_Sweet
Free Member
Talk to his teacher and express your concerns, particularly re bruises. At that age teachers should be able to deal with it to some degree.

This, very much this. The teacher can definitely help here, they have playground monitors who will be able to keep an eye on what's happening too.

I only had 2 problems with my lad and an older kid. First time I rang the school, was initially getting fobbed off until I said that I'd be knocking on that kids door this evening if they didn't sort it by home time. It got sorted.

About a year later the same lad hit my boy in the back of his head as they were getting off the bus, I happened to be sat in the car waiting for the bus and saw it happen, so I drove straight to school and had a pretty one way discussion with the head where I again told him if he didn't sort it, I would. He sorted it first thing Monday morning.

He needs to mock them back.  If it gets physical he needs to punch back.<br /><br />

I had an uncle who used this tactic. He was an orphan and an east target. Held up against a wall by a bully that was much bigger than him, arms pinned. So he bit the kids nose off. Never got bullied again. Probably not a suitable approach these days. 

More seriously though, I really empathise with you OP. Both my lads are not really interested in team sports. Neither have really made good friends. Both stick out as different to all the other kids. The younger one was in tears tonight because everyone knows he fancies a girl at school and he’s getting teased because of it. We’re constantly on the lookout for them getting bullied, but nothing too bad has happened yet.

You’re going about things the right way. Definitely worth talking to the school.

So I got massively and extensively bullied at primary/middle school and into secondary school.  It didn't ruin my childhood, but has definitely affected me quite a bit.

Oddly the things that helped me with, making my own fun, being self reliant and the like, seem to have actually stood me in good stead for adult life.  I do have terrible social skills and quite a bit of social anxiety.  I have become pretty good over the years at putting on a mask and weirdly people seem to think that makes me very cool and calm (which I guess helps in my line of work).

I'm a parent as well my kid is a bit younger than yours.  I'll be frank, I'm not sure that there's loads you can do.  My parents certainly tried hard to stop it.  Endless letters and meetings with teachers.  It didn't work at all and probably made things worse a bit.  I certainly wouldn't bother too much with intervening with the other kids parents, it's going to go badly, imo.  Talk to the coach at the football club for sure and the teachers.  Their young enough that the teachers might be able to put a stop to it if they know what's going on.

If my kid does get bullied (and I know this is a terrible response really) then he's going to judo.  At least if he gets in to a fight then at least the other kid might come off worse.  It would have been nice to at least properly clobbered one of the bullies.  It might have helped.  Who knows.  The running is a good idea.  Definitely a good idea to be able to run really fast.

Sorry that's not nice and positive.

Edit:

The positive bit, despite all that, I like to think I've done pretty well for myself.  Good job, lovely wife, wonderful kid.  Live in a nice house in a very nice part of the world.  So while it may be grim now, it'll come good, I'm sure of it.

Just wanted to say you are not alone.  Ive been through this situation over and over again with my son who is now 21.

TBH there isnt much you can do as it usually boils down to differences in personality and you really dont want to change you boys personality for the worse.  What you are doing seems to be the most sensible idea.  Broaden his horizons and introduce as many circumstances where he may just meet a new circle of friends.  A boy who is confident, happy and surrounded by genuine friends is no target for bullies.

As an example the game changer for my son was drama class when taking gcse options.  Before that he didnt really have a good group of friends at school.  He had his solid group of friends out of school from where we lived but you cant take them into school for protection every day.  He had no drama type skills, he wasnt really that interested in it.  But what he did get from it (He passed) was a solid group of friends both male and female who were genuine, confident, intelligent and loyal.  From that day on he always had friends, he never even gave the other kids a second thought and he breezed through school.  Now he has two distinct sets of friends.  His school/drama friends who are all over the country in university and working.  He visits them, he sees them when they are back on breaks and he;s even been on holiday with some of the girls as friends just for breaks.  His other group is the football friends he has known since he was 4yrs old.  Not the bullies, he dropped them like a hot brick.  No the proper friends who had his back and regardless of what came along stayed friend's.  Hes been on holidays etc with them too.  

I think what im saying is you are doing the right thing and the best thing you can do for your lad is be there and let him learn important lessons of who to let into his life and who to keep at harms length.  He will soon get the hang of it.

Thanks.

The issue is he doesn't hate the bullies, he desperately wants them to like him and be his friend.

I'm not at the point of telling him to hit back.  That is my default position when I'm angry

I was bullied alot, because it was easy to get a rise out of me, eventually I started fighting back, and kicked the crap out of several of them.  But, that just meant the physical stuff stopped, mostly, the mental stuff carried on, moreso  Its caused some not so great traits in later life - primarily where my default mindset is one of people are arseholes until proven otherwise.  Its not helpful and I want better for my boys.

I'm a pretty senior black belt in TKD and did very well on the full contact scene so I know how to teach him to fight (I cross trained several martial arts to actually make it useful for self defense).  So far I've not taught either of my boys how to fight.  The reason I haven't is I do not want him to be the kid everyone winds up to see a fight.  My wife is very against it too, we want to preserve their innocence as long as we can.  My old club is close by and I bumped into one of the old squad who was trying to persuade me to go back.   I know they will look after him there.

I'm going to see what the school says.  From my own experience I don#t hold much hope.  I'm not feeling optimistic about it

I’m going to see what the school says. From my own experience I don#t hold much hope

Just a counterpoint p.. our kid's school is shit hot on anti bullying. They'd be on this like a rash. You may be positively surprised.

Hey buddy, you and your son are not alone with this!

My daughter (who is 8, eccentric, smart, zero 'street-smarts' and rather nerdy) is going through something similar. one particular kid is forcing other kids not to play with her, and the others have become like her little minions joining in mocking my daughter to basically avoid getting bullied by this girl themselves.

It got to the point where she had massive anxiety about going to school, but it shows in stupid ways like refusing to put socks on so it's very hard to deal with and for others to understand.
She is so stressed that she can't articulate what is going on to teachers, and the other girl is one of those people who can reel a load of bullshit off the top of her dome so they think it's tit-for-tat.

Anyway like you've we've started her at a climbing club, and a swimming club, and cubs (away from the school catchment area). She's slowly coming out of her shell again. She's gone from basically being a hermit to actually wanting to go to cub camp, and go out with some good friends. Seems like there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Still detests school though. We can't seem to make any progress whatsoever with getting the bullying stopped. The school can't seem to stop it.

The issue is he doesn’t hate the bullies, he desperately wants them to like him and be his friend.

Thats the lesson he needs to learn.  Whether its by finding new, more interesting things to do or whatever.  Unfortunately his wanting them to like them makes him an even bigger target.  Its not something you need to preach to him either, we found that doesnt work unless he sees it for himself.

Our eldest daughter had similar problems. She often only sees black and white which results in her getting involved and subsequently becoming a target*. She also reacts to needling which I imagine also did not help. IMO the school were weak at dealing with the lower level things** and only seemed proactive for worse occurrences that could not be ignored (ball that had been down the toilet thrown at her). Much like their general communication style really!

* this is just her personality, we have been working very hard to get her to understand shades or grey.

** obviously this assessment is at least partially based on daughters reporting of inaction.

FWIW you may want to start thinking about secondary options now. From the reports we've been hearing the catchment secondary for us both is an absolute shit show for the new year 7s, especially the boys! Fortunately our eldest has escaped this and the children she had repeated issues with by going to a different secondary in town.

I moved schools a lot as a child as we moved with my dads job. Being a ‘new kid’ and bi-racial with an Asian dad, made me seem like an easy target for bullies. I became used to taking on the largest bully and physically beating them. As a small child, hitting first and having no mercy did offer me significant protection.

I am not saying everyone would be affected as I was and am, but I do not recommend violence as a positive option.

I have to say that as an adult it taught me behaviours which are not universally positive.

Yes, I am friendly and welcoming, concerned about peoples wellbeing, maintaining their dignity and being compassionate - which are strengths. However, I have always had a short fuse, been hyper-vigilant and extremely quick to resort to shouting and if threatened physically by a stranger, have often used my size, temper and aggression to intimidate them. It has taken me a long time to learn to outwardly seem calm.

If I am honest, I am a damaged man.

He needs to mock them back. If it gets physical he needs to punch back.

Do NOT listen to this advice – it could end like Ray Winstone in Scum and he becomes alpha-male. Then what? He becomes the one who starts intimidating and bullying 'weaker' kids. Or he gets hurt and becomes a bigger focus of the bullying and exclusions. Seriously – that is rubbish advice.

The issue is he doesn’t hate the bullies, he desperately wants them to like him and be his friend.

This is where a possible solution lies – advise him to move away from that group of kids, stop wanting to be part of their gang. He'll find other friends and he will also possibly find that this original group will then come back to him, wanting him to be their friends when they see that he doesn't 'need' them. I know this is probably much easier said than done but, if you think it is sensible advice, I am sure you will be able to help your child work towards this.

You also need to ensure the school are fully aware of the situation, ask them to monitor the situation within school hours/out of hours school-based activities and ask them to give you clear guidance about what their bullying policy is.

Not sure if it will help in your case but a friend had success with this method with their daughter of a similar age:

Every time the bullies said something nasty, the parents would give the girl a treat (small amount of money IIRC, 50p or something).

This shortly turned into the girl not minding what they said, which shortly turned into them losing all the fun out of it, meaning the whole thing stopped in a pretty short amount of time with no one getting upset.

Learning basic self defence definitely helped both my kids. I’m pretty sure neither of them have had to test it out but I know it has given them an inner confidence.
My 16 year old daughter is quite happy to walk home alone in the dark and always tells me so when I collect her from her dance classes.

I’m going to see what the school says. From my own experience I don#t hold much hope. I’m not feeling optimistic about it

Hopefully you'll find that thing have moved on since your day. It has.

It is however a perennial problem. Apart from talking to the school sooner, it sounds like you are doing all the right things. Kids are both horrible specimens and simultaneously unable to read the social signs. I think you've probably identified your son is not wanted by these other kids for whatever reason. Instead of moving on, he's coming back for more. They are too immature to handle that and he's too immature to read the room.

Karate or judo.

I went through some pretty horrific bullying at school and it feks you up for life. So I started my son off with karate at 4 and told him from an early age to be friendly and polite to everyone, ignore people who say things and call names, but if it ever gets physical, go all out and we will back home up if he gets in any crap for decking a bully.

Bullys are always cowards, and they will move on to an easier target. The key is not being that easy target.

Had similar with my son all through Primary and into high school. Only the High School stopped it, plus my son hitting the idiot back.

You will get the parent's defending their 'little angel' - In this case the 'little angel' came from a long line of bullies/bad eggs - his dad was really bad at school, and no better as an adult (barred from pubs etc.).

Good luck with the school.

I wish you better luck with school than we've had. My 10yr daughter sounds very similar to Nixie's. Girl in the year below constantly provoking for a reaction she knows she'll get. Fairness is a big thing for my daughter and so what others shrug off, she stands up for. Problem is the younger girl has a bouncer friend who is by some way the biggest girl in the school and so feels empowered when she's around.

When we speak to school, they say all the correct things. Emphasize it's not my daughter that starts it, that it's jealousy of the younger girl regarding sporting ability, that they'll have a word...and they do...but it's achieves nothing and doesn't deter them. If my daughter tells on them, the younger girl always turns it around that my daughter started it and so attempts to converse with the other parents is pointless.

Good luck, it's definitely impacting my daughters mental health.

Spark the little bastard out.

The sensible answer is to make sure everyone is aware, from the little angel's parents to the teachers who have a duty of care. One would hope that they have training in such matters and that bullying is not something which has come wildly out of leftfield for them.

I was systematically bullied at high school for years. It only ended when I lost the plot one day and snottered one of them. I confronted the primary antagonist at a school reunion some 30 years later, he had no recollection of any of it. Well, lucky him, maybe my dental bills would serve as a reminder. I wonder with hindsight whether he was a victim of abuse himself, might be something to consider when dealing with your kid's aggressor's parents.

In any case I have zero tolerance for it. It needs nipping in the bud, and it needs doing so immediately.

I certainly hope schools have improved since my son’s time. There was a serial biter at his primary school and absolutely nothing was done until my son bit him back. At which point we were hauled in to see the head and threatened with exclusion. This didn’t go down too well with me as it was common knowledge across his year group that the biter was never reprimanded despite complaints from many parents. Prior to that event my son had never bitten anyone and never did again. The biting didn’t stop at the school, although my son wasn’t bitten again. <br /><br />I was bullied at boarding school (so there was never an escape) right up to the point that I beat the crap out of one of the bullies after he spat in my face. I was suspended for a week but at least the bullying stopped. 

Sorry to hear it, have seen it with both my 2.

Firstly, and you're screwed on enough already about this, is there are often 2 sides to every storey, however when kids are coming home crying, it's normally quite easy to see that someone is coming off worse.

Is your son/daughter sticking out with quirky behaviour - when i say quirky - i mean bloddy annoying (i say this from experience) and it needs correcting to stop attracting the others.

Bruises - It's a safegurading issue.  There are very strict rules in place in schools about brusing and reporting - if you havent done it, you must as it needs to be logged on their CPOMS and explain where you believe its coming from, at that age the schools will not accept it's just come from an accident.  If it has been logged and no action taken, then the school will need to be held accountable and they can do by going to local authority  -it's a big no no.

External school activities can help, I do very much "big up" doing a martial art, not for self defence, but for confidence building, it makes such a big difference in the Alpha male (and female) world.

Your sons natural reaction will be to ignore it as he's ashamed, so show empathy, not sympathy when talking to him about it.  Does the school have any practicing ELSA's -the school is obliged to offer this if it's affecting learning -its a one-one session that can help them tackle the issues - sometimes those issues mean that the other kids have their backgrounds dug into to understand their behavious.

as we've also seen (missus an SEN and ELSA at secondary), sometimes there just isnt a straight forward answer or resolution, some go drastic and change schools to fix it.

I'm so sorry to hear about this!

Aside from talking to the school and everything else that's been suggested, what about Scouts?

My children moved schools (we moved house) right before lockdown, and the boys in my son's new class were all into football. My son's a total nerd, so he didn't really hit it off with anyone in the few weeks before they were all sent home.

It was a very lonely time for him, but it would've been far harder if it wasn't for him asking to join the Scouts. It was invaluable in helping him make new friends and feel more confident in our new area in what was difficult enough time for kids as it was. Thank you Bear Grylls for making Scouts look cool 🙂

You might also be able to join as a helper and keep an eye on things, if you would like to do that.

For those suggesting martial arts, what are your thought processes? That your child will suddenly turn into some bully-proof ninja? That they'll gain confidence that they never had just by being able to do a basic judo throw?

I was bullied a bit in school. I also did judo to a decent level. Guess how much it helps a small, skinny nerd when being bullied by a bunch of bigger boys who have found out that you do a martial art?

One of my girls does jiu-jitsu to a very high level, but will barely mention it to anyone other than her closest friends. Why would she want all the hassling that comes with thicko boys knowing what she does.

We had something similar with our eldest child last year (came to a head in year 5, continued into year 6). In our case he had some good friends, but a small number of children recognised that it was good sport to wind him up because they knew they would get an angry and aggressive response that would get him into trouble. Football at break times was a particular trigger point. We knew that some kids were targeting him and we thought it amounted to bullying because the nature and frequency of their actions met many of the key criteria. When the school gave him lunchtime isolation following one outburst and told him that boys who threatened others can "go to prison" (the head teacher's words) we'd had enough. The first thing we did was meet the head teacher and lay out all the facts we had and put it that the school was failing in its duty of care because our son was being bullied. Some measures were put in place that did improve things, although things did regress a bit eventually. But I do think it is important to keep a dialogue with the school and not be afraid to be open about how you feel about their management of the situation. No school wants a reputation as a school that is weak on bullying. The second thing we did was seek professional help. A year later he has an ASD diagnosis (obtained privately as there was a real risk of him being excluded before he would have been assessed on the NHS). The school's attitude to him changed overnight, and for the better. His secondary school (he's now year 7) have been absolutely ace and he's happier than he's been for a long time despite the challenge of starting a new school.

IdleJon

Full Member

for confidence, nothing more, similar to say starting army/sea/air cadets - it's a different environment that on the grand scheme of things not many kids do, but like with me it built my confidence up which is noticeable to others.  to bullies it's a perception of weakness that triggers them, if you don't give that, you've given yourself a good headstart.

My granddaughter was getting similar bullying at that age, school were not much help and neither were other child's parents.

She ended up changing schools which I considered to be a bit drastic and thought they could have tried harder to resolve but it was the best thing and granddaughter (now 10) is now very happy with mum and dad less stressed also had no issues moving school/fitting in.

I don't need to say but bullying is horrific, luckily not something I've been through with my kids but I know that their schools are brilliant with it. How many classes in each year? Would it help moving him into another class (assuming the bullies are in his class?). The next door neighbour thing shouldn't matter - my youngest's best friend is a girl in his class - they get on like an absolute house on fire. Lovely to see... the boy/girl thing doesn't seem to matter at all at their age.

I like the suggestion of Scouts too...

In terms of school, the biggest impact you can have is by talking to them and letting them know what's going on.

I'm a secondary Head Of Year and all too often we don't know about issues like this until it's gone on for too long as students generally don't report things (to us or their parents) for any number of reasons. It happens all too often, but I've sat in too many meetings with parents where they come in angrily demanding to know why we haven't done anything and the honest answer is 'because we genuinely didn't know...'.

Any decent school will want to work to alleviate the issues and that's only generally effective if everyone works together. You'll need the school's support in terms of them monitoring and taking action and they'll need yours in understanding that there's rarely any magic bullet that sorts things instantly as well as in doing all things to look after your kid that you're already doing.

For those suggesting martial arts, what are your thought processes?

With us, there was no thought process. My eldest has Aspergers syndrome, hates team sport and at around 7-8 years old, asked to go to Judo classes. Having learned Judo as a kid, I was happy to take him and I think he enjoyed having Dad there.
My daughter saw how much fun we had practicing at home and asked if she could come with us. Subsequently, they practiced together and became accomplished in defence. In my opinion, a great life skill.

Sounds awful.  I'd be trying a much as possible to help him find other friends,  which it looks like you're all over.

Maybe try the local cub scout pack too.  Beavers and Cubs have helped my eldest with confidence and friends.

I agree with the martial arts suggestions.

There are loads of benefits that are nothing to do with being bullied. Martial arts are great for fitness; they are good fun (your boy might hate doing it, which is fair enough, but loads of people enjoy them); they are good for making friends; they give you confidence, discipline, etc.

Apart from all that I agree with earlier posters: if it does come to a scrap the bullies will learn that there are easier targets, even if your boy loses.
Anyone who - as someone suggested upthread - goes around boasting that they are hard because they do practise a martial art deserves any trouble they get. I assume from you description that your son is more intelligent than that.

Sorry to read this OP. Definitely have a frank conversation with the head and your son’s class teacher. Schools seem much better equipped these days to deal with bullying.

For those recommending martial arts, the vast majority are utter shite for actually learning how to fight and fill people with false confidence. Good for fitness, as a sport etc. I learned how to fight the only really viable way, by getting in to lots of fights and it made me in to a rather nasty individual for a while. In my own defence I beat u bullies as I was badly bullied as a small child. I therefore took it upon myself to go after bullies in my teens. Real life is not an episode of Cobra Kai. Fighting is a nasty and viscous thing. Not what I want for my kids.

I was always crap at fighting. I've always been of the 'run away' persuasion and I'm a slippery little shit who's hard to keep a hold of. It's stood me in good stead through school and throughout adulthood. I am Miyagi good at no be there.

But a sudden explosion did prove somewhat effective. I think it was the shock, the surprise rather than the actual physical violence. A stake in the ground, I'm not putting up with your crap any more.

I never had any interest in whatever martial arts classes. Not because I didn't want to get hit, but because I didn't want to hit anyone else.

Cougar

I absolutely agree with your philosophy

Any decent martial arts organisation will teach you that the best defence is not being there, that in a violent situation it doesn’t matter how hard you are as you can still get hit from behind with a brick. A lot of the moves they teach are to break a grip so you can run, or  to put distance between yourself and an aggressor.
I used to get into a lot of fights when I was younger. I haven’t hit anyone (outside a dojo) since l began training.

My son went through what sounds like a very similar experience at primary school.  He was picked on as he was very quick to cry and it made him an easy target.  Another few things happened too, a few physical things.  <br /><br />He was a very sensitive kid and it was hard for us to see what he as actually happening as opposed to how he saw things happening.  Although the latter was the most important point.   It was a really small school ( less than 30 kids for primaries 1-7) so hard for him to be picked on within his peer group with no one else to run to. <br /><br />Things we found helpful:

I spoke to a few of the other parents.  1 of the mums was fantastic tbh and had a word.  It didn’t fix things but definitely helped a bit.  <br /><br />Involved the school.   Again, they were really good.  His teacher and especially the headteacher were excellent and went over anti bullying (and what constituted bullying) most weeks at assembly.   We had a great relationship and so when I spoke to them a few times and they pushed back on the wee man’s version as not actually what happened I could take it   <br /><br />Giving our son other outlets - Scouts is one thing he’s stuck at right through but we’d have done whatever it took to get him something.  <br /><br />Gave him the confidence to speak to us, we wouldn’t judge him and would do something about it   

We had big support plans in place for him going to high school and were very worried but that’s all been unfounded.   His relationships with the same kids are now totally different and very healthy.  I guess th other kids matured a bit, the ringleader lost an ally which changed the dynamic, and our son has changed too.   He’s got a few mates outside that friendship group and  still goes to Scouts.  His confidence and self esteem have come on no end, it’s been amazing to see.

Hope some of that helps, best of luck as I know what a horrible situation it is.

 TS  

If your lad fancies trying a martial art, there always used to be Taekwondo classes held at St. Andrews Church opposite the end of Northlands Rd and The Common car park. Back in the 90s, Mark Biddlecombe (sp) ran the classes there and did the gradings at Southampton uni where I trained under Graham Jones.

Just googled, still there https://martialartist.org.uk/

small world.  i taught a few classes for Graham back in the day and trained under Mark and Brian.  also did a bit for Pat as Portsmouth uni.  though I was at uni 97 - 20 so maybe after your time.  was with Joe brown before that.  CDK boys are a good bunch.  in it for the art rather than  to make money like some.

thanks for all your comments.   he's come home today saying today was an 'ok'day and nothing happened, even though he played with the same kids we've asked him to stay away from ffs.   we are still going to involve the school, just so at the very least we know someone should be watching and we can get an impartial view of what might actually be going on.

I've been making myself useful trying to sort him and his brother out a play room in our dining room.   I'm going to try and make it how I would have loved as a kid.  I'm hoping if he does get some good mates having a decent space to play with them will.mean they want to come over ans spend time with him

Sounds awful. I got relentlessly bullied at school by one particular kid until I threw him at a wall and he never even looked at me again. Sadly it's the only thing they understand. People only treat you like shit if you let them.
Good luck whatever you do.

My daughter was bullied at school. It came out one evening and I said I’d talk to her teacher. The next day she came home and said it’s all sorted. Turned out she got two boys suspended. Don’t know how but there’s been nothing since.. 

I’m a firm believer that Karate is a great thing for kids. And otherwise let your lad talk, don’t always try to fix everything, but create opportunities (which it sounds like you’re doing). Oh and talk to the school.

Sounds awful. I got relentlessly bullied at school by one particular kid

Same here, I got bullied in school a lot by a particular clique, not punched or anything, but constant name calling and pulling on my jumper and general shitty roughness and verbal humiliation.

Only in school, mind.

One day I smacked the main culprit square on the nose. lots of blood. I almost got expelled, but after a lot of hoo-har betwen my parents, the school and the bullys parents, I was moved to a different form as we were in the same group, and under strict instruction to never talk to him again. I was fine with that.

I also achieved legendary status amongst my peers at the time though, and even some of the real bullies, so there is that.

I detest violence, but some times a good punch and a nose bleed is the only thing some people understand.