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I read today that over 55% of the population recieve more in benefits than they pay in tax, which I find astonishing.
Conversely, 59% of the population managed to go abroad on holiday last year.
Going back a bit in the thread here but state pension is a benefit so will account for a lot of these two percentages
Depends how much of your contribution are you putting through salary sacrifice? ie - how much of that 10% shows as your contribution on your payslip and how much is showing as an employer contribution.I'm finding the pensions bit a tad confusing as to whether it affects me. Let's say I contributed 10% £3500 of my salary to my work's scheme, and work match up to a certain % (let's say 7%) £2450; does this affect me. I'm looking at the 2k cap and thinking it must. TIA
But the poster I replied to actually said make income tax and NI start at £30K. The income tax at £29,999 is £3,486. The NI is £1,394. So you are losing many people paying £4880.
Yep, and that £5K is taken from richer people by say putting 40% up to 45%, closing all the tax loopholes for non PAYE and so on. I get it, you don't want equality to improve but I do and making someone on £30K a year £5K better off will make a MUCH bigger difference to their lives than making someone on £100K a year £5K a year worse off.
No, bugger off saying I "don't want equality to improve". You don't know anything about me.
I'm saying nothing about equality, I'm saying your way of achieving it is nonsense that would harm the country a great deal.
More detail on the pension changes here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-salary-sacrifice-for-pensions-from-april-2029/changes-to-salary-sacrifice-for-pensions-from-april-2029
But the poster I replied to actually said make income tax and NI start at £30K. The income tax at £29,999 is £3,486. The NI is £1,394. So you are losing many people paying £4880.
Yep, and that £5K is taken from richer people by say putting 40% up to 45%, closing all the tax loopholes for non PAYE and so on. I get it, you don't want equality to improve but I do and making someone on £30K a year £5K better off will make a MUCH bigger difference to their lives than making someone on £100K a year £5K a year worse off.
No, bugger off saying this. You don't know anything about me.
I'm saying nothing about equality, I'm saying your way of achieving it is nonsense that would harm the country a great deal.
Which is nonsense....
If you give someone at the lower end of the income scale an extra £5k they will spend that in the economy.
That extra spending creates more tax via VAT and more jobs which create more Income Tax and NI contributions, and those increased jobs create more tax revenues, etc...
If you give that £5k to someone at the upper end of the income scale they are not going put that back into the economy. Its more likely its going to be invested which just pushes up asset prices.
Again its making sure that people earn £100k argue with those earning £30k who then argue with those who need benefits, rather than banding together to go after those people with significant wealth.
I'm saying nothing about equality, I'm saying your way of achieving it is nonsense that would harm the country a great deal.
How exactly would it harm the country if some people are worse off and some are better with tax reveune remaining the same?
The person on £100K is still taking home double what the under £30K person is, seems okay doesn't it?
If you want to sort out inequality, and I get it you don't, then there are going to be losers as there is no other way of really doing it but being a loser on £100 a year is really not that bad.
Consultation on how the ev stuff will work.
The TLDR is that each year you'll be asked to estimate your milage, and then they'll add that onto your VED. You then confirm if this was over / under at the next VED renewal and they refund you / bill you the difference. They use the MOT milage as a check to verify you're not under reporting (the MOT milage basically acts as a floor for what you can report). Obviously cars under 3 years don't have an MOT so they're proposing you go and have a mileage check once a year at a garage (which they'll pay garages for).
If you sell your car, the miles you've paid for stay with the car, so you'd effectively be selling it with pre-paid milage. They'll allow dealers to bundle cars with say 5k milage paid in advance. Miles abroad count.
Seems a bit under thought through, but I guess that's why they're consulting on it.
I'm finding the pensions bit a tad confusing as to whether it affects me. Let's say I contributed 10% £3500 of my salary to my work's scheme, and work match up to a certain % (let's say 7%) £2450; does this affect me. I'm looking at the 2k cap and thinking it must. TIA
Sounds like, you'd pay NI on £1500 which is 8% on your £35k salary.
The best bit, whilst everyone is complaining about it, AFAIK if your salary was £55k, you'd only pay 2% as the rates are lower. It's all part of the 20% v 40% Income Tax myth.
Your employer would pay 15% Employers NIC, which might cause them to review their policy on matching it.
Seems a bit under thought through, but I guess that's why they're consulting on it.
Can you pay monthly by DD for a start!!
Lots of people pay for their normal road tax monthly as it's easier to budget for. A bill for several hundred pounds (even though you know it's coming) isn't as easy because life gets in the way and unexpected bills pop up.
Or do they send you a bill and you have to pay in 7-14 days or they send the rozzers round and give you a criminal record! 🙂
Seems a bit under thought through, but I guess that's why they're consulting on it.
Can you pay monthly by DD for a start!!
Lots of people pay for their normal road tax monthly as it's easier to budget for. A bill for several hundred pounds (even though you know it's coming) isn't as easy because life gets in the way and unexpected bills pop up.
Or do they send you a bill and you have to pay in 7-14 days or they give you a criminal record!
Looking at the paperwork, EV drivers will be asked to Estimate their mileage for the coming year, say 10k which seems about average. They'll add £300 eVED to your VED (if applicable) and you can pay either monthly or upfront.
Can't see anything about how they will check your mileage or if they can retrospectively bill you if you go over. It's a lot cheaper than fuel duty and they were always going to have to work out how to replace fuel duty in the budget as more people switch to EV.
RE vehicles.
It does somewhat irk me that cause i drive a van it costs me commercial rates to tax (£345) but it does <3000 miles a year.
our bicycles do higher mileage than the van does.
Its fine, i made my life choices
I do think going for PAYD model would be fairer though.
I used to say stick it all on fuel and get rid of the VED all together, but EVs have messed that up.
Alternative suggestion.
Put it on at the MOT, where they are logging your mileage anyway. Different vehicles have different tax bands. A factor of emissions and weight. (perhaps emissions cost more than weight, to encourage EV usage)
Pence per mile, per kg/CO², per kg GVW.
Per mile does seem over complicated. Could have just grouped cars for the first tax payment and then have to pay a set amount of £195 as with petrol cars (under $40k)
3p a mile seems wrong as well as that is £300 for the average 10,000 miles a year whereas I pay £195 for my petrol car and do well over 10,000 miles. Based on average mileages I don't think EV drivers should be paying more as doesn't seem right.
Are you missing out the taxes you pay on your petrol from the equation?
Are you missing out the taxes you pay on your petrol from the equation?
Yes. Likewise the taxes we pay on electricity. Likewise the high charges for charging at public charging points. But the general point is, if we want to reduce our CO2 footprint from the use of fossil fuels, why start making takeup of EV less desirable?
Are you missing out the taxes you pay on your petrol from the equation?
You'd be surprised how many people don't make this mental link, I'd guess most petrol/diesel drivers are paying in the 6p to 9p a mile depending on their car.
Per mile does seem over complicated. Could have just grouped cars for the first tax payment and then have to pay a set amount of £195 as with petrol cars (under $40k)
3p a mile seems wrong as well as that is £300 for the average 10,000 miles a year whereas I pay £195 for my petrol car and do well over 10,000 miles. Based on average mileages I don't think EV drivers should be paying more as doesn't seem right.
What you need to factor in is, a typical petrol car achieving 40mpg is currently paying 6p a mile in fuel duty.
Its just that you "pay as you go" when filling up rather than as one big payment at the end of the year
Yeah the 3p and mile is a direct response to loss of tax on petrol and diesel at the pumps.
VAT on electricity is 5%, so assuming 8p per kWh (overnight) and 4 miles per kWh then that cost is 0.1p per mile YMMV
We've got got an EV car and a PHEV big car. For the EV with cheap home charging the cost per mile will still be a fraction of the equivalent ICE cost. PHEV massively depends on the journey - local on battery only, v cheap - long distance in hybrid mode about the same mpg as my previous diesel van as it's pretty much running off the petrol engine only.
I'm not bothered about paying the extra 3p or 1.5p per mile - I think we all knew the lost revenue from ICE fuel tax was going to hit one way or another
More detail on the pension changes here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-salary-sacrifice-for-pensions-from-april-2029/changes-to-salary-sacrifice-for-pensions-from-april-2029
"Most employees making typical contributions will be unaffected"
Yes but only because most employees making typical contributions are woefully under prepared for retirement, and you've just incentivised them to keep it that way.
Coming from someone who voted for them and has continued supporting them despite their increasingly concerning performance, that is disgraceful stuff from labour.
why start making takeup of EV less desirable?
Because the upcoming ban on new sales is still in place. It's not even that far away, so manufacturers really need to pivot fast, and that means ramping up production. Given how long this takes the preparations will be well underway already. They have banked on a certain amount of EVs being sold. So they'll have to reduce prices to keep the sales going which could be good news for those who want to switch before the ban.
VAT on electricity is 5%, so assuming 8p per kWh (overnight) and 4 miles per kWh then that cost is 0.1p per mile YMMV
Indeed, YMMV. Not everyone charges at home or at low tariffs and not everyone gets 4 miles per kWh. So the numbers in your example point to a small cost, but that doesn't compensate for EV drivers being on the bleeding edge and paying for chargers to be installed, or paying over the odds for public charging.
Which is nonsense....
If you give someone at the lower end of the income scale an extra £5k they will spend that in the economy.
That extra spending creates more tax via VAT and more jobs which create more Income Tax and NI contributions, and those increased jobs create more tax revenues, etc...If you give that £5k to someone at the upper end of the income scale they are not going put that back into the economy. Its more likely its going to be invested which just pushes up asset prices.
Again its making sure that people earn £100k argue with those earning £30k who then argue with those who need benefits, rather than banding together to go after those people with significant wealth.
No, that point you're making above is not relevant to what is being discussed, because it wouldn't be £5K saved for somebody earning £30K, and £5K more for somebody earning £100K. Think about it (or read the wall of text below... 😀 )
How exactly would it harm the country if some people are worse off and some are better with tax reveune remaining the same?
To put it in simple terms, the total tax take is around a trillion pounds. We currently get that from the (say) 90% of PAYE earners who earn over £12.7k.
Your suggestion is taking that same trillion, but from a far smaller amount of people. Therefore the income tax and NI rate above £30K will need to increase massively. Those people's bills will stay the same, but they are suddenly taking home far less. What do they do? Stop all discretionary spending. So replacing cars, eating out, going to the pub, etc. So you'd decimate those industries.
But the poor will have more discretionary spending power so that's okay you might argue. Except they won't because there's still the same amount of houses, so there will be huge inflation in house prices and rent.
If instead the suggestion is whacking the burden all onto high earners (Additional Rate payers), the required increase in their tax rate would be even more stark.
It's not the 1970s, if you squeeze too much, people (especially very high earners) will just leave. And given that the top 1% currently pay 30% of all income tax, we cannot afford that.
If you want to sort out inequality, and I get it you don't,
Again, please stop saying this about me. It's untrue. It's also quite funny as I get slagged off for other forums for being 'hard left'.
There are many things that can be done to improve equality, like getting rid of regressive taxes such as council tax, bringing capital gains more into line with income tax, inheritance tax reforms, building more houses & schools, incentivising industry for Wales/the North of England/East Anglia to promote growth, improving public transport.
Depends how much of your contribution are you putting through salary sacrifice?
According to my payslip all of my contribution is salary sacrifice. That's how it's described.
To put it in simple terms, the total tax take is around a trillion pounds. We currently get that from the (say) 90% of PAYE earners who earn over £12.7k.
It isnt though.
Income tax and NI are the higher contributors to the £1t, but its not 90%:
You can bring more lower earners out of taxation, but you dont have to fund it from within employment taxes.
There are many other ways to do this to balance the %'s in that wheel, which you've referenced.
There are many things that can be done to improve equality, like getting rid of regressive taxes such as council tax, bringing capital gains more into line with income tax, inheritance tax reforms
Looking at the paperwork, EV drivers will be asked to Estimate their mileage for the coming year, say 10k which seems about average. They'll add £300 eVED to your VED (if applicable) and you can pay either monthly or upfront.
Can't see anything about how they will check your mileage or if they can retrospectively bill you if you go over. It's a lot cheaper than fuel duty and they were always going to have to work out how to replace fuel duty in the budget as more people switch to EV.
Seems you will need to get an MOT station to verify your mileage.
if you squeeze too much, people (especially very high earners) will just leave
And be replaced instantly by somebody else. There's no shortage of people interested in doing higher paid jobs or taking on the running of profitable businesses.
Looking at the paperwork, EV drivers will be asked to Estimate their mileage for the coming year, say 10k which seems about average. They'll add £300 eVED to your VED (if applicable) and you can pay either monthly or upfront.
Can't see anything about how they will check your mileage or if they can retrospectively bill you if you go over. It's a lot cheaper than fuel duty and they were always going to have to work out how to replace fuel duty in the budget as more people switch to EV.
Seems you will need to get an MOT station to verify your mileage.
Is that Torygraph's opinion or fact? I didn't read anything about inspections in the official document.
Quoting a PM spokesman.
The Standard amongst other s also suggest this.
" For new cars, a mileage check around their first and second registration anniversary will be carried out."
Where else would checks be done but MOT stations?
Where else would checks be done but MOT stations?
And how much will they charge for this verification?
They're not going to do it for free!
They'll have to charge a minimum of 15 minutes time and most garages are over £100/hour for labour now.
Talking of teachers pay 10 years ago I was at the top of the classroom teachers pay scale with an extra £7k on top for management stuff....I did not hit 40% tax rate.
This year I am at the top of classroom teacher pay scale with no extra for management and I am about £1000 into 40% tax rate and this is after 10 years of below inflation pay rises with only 2 years of reasonable pay uplift. Fiscal drag..
Now I hear you all say get a new bike on cycle to work...I would but my employer won't do it...I expect I will just increase pension payments.
And how much will they charge for this verification?
How much will they charge who?
There's already the IT in place for MOT centres to provide milage... why reinvent the wheel? At first anyway. Any new way of imputing the data by a trusted third party would inevitable be delivered late and add complications. Something smarter will be used eventually I suspect. Looks like the combination of self reporting, and existing MOT certs and V5C will do all the heavy lifting at first anyway.
There's already the IT in place for MOT centres to provide milage... why reinvent the wheel?
Is the customer just going to enter their own mileage into the garage's system then?
It will be a garage employee that does it - and the meet and greet and faffing around that some customers do takes time that has to be paid for.
has to be paid for
Again, by whom? The government? The owner? The buyer? The dealer? And when does this happen? When the milage is queried? When a car is sold? I wouldn't get excited about the details yet.
It's all written in the document I linked to above - e.g. section 4.29
" Cars under three years old are not currently required to have an
annual MOT. The government currently intends for these cars to attend
an additional mileage check at an accredited provider around their first
and second anniversary, but welcomes views on whether these
additional checks should be required. For many motorists, this will be
able to be combined with other routine servicing and safety checks
that their vehicle will typically require in this period. "
Has anyone asked the MOT centres if they fancy being saddled with this?
When my car needs an MOT I have to book it in at my local garage at least a month in advance, as they're always absolutely stacked out. I'm sure Dave, who does the MOT's, will be absolutely delighted at the news that he's now going to be spending his days recording the mileage on EV's
Less than impressed that they've more than doubled the rateable value of our local community-owned pub, the only one in our tiny village.
But, hey, no more tax on bingo halls.
Again, by whom? The government? The owner? The buyer? The dealer? And when does this happen? When the milage is queried? When a car is sold? I wouldn't get excited about the details yet.
If only there was someone in charge who could tell us!! 🤷♂️
Why the rush? Years to go, and it needs to be worked out with the trade, not just foisted on them without discussion. If you’re planning on buying a brand new EV next year, or the year after, I still wouldn’t lose any sleep worrying about this. If you’re not, it’ll all be sorted at the MOT. If you’re running a garage, I can see the interest.
Less than impressed that they've more than doubled the rateable value of our local community-owned pub, the only one in our tiny village.
That is shit. Has it got a very high rateable value due to location or something? Yesterday’s changes were announced as a benefit to smaller hospitality and retail companies, with just larger ones paying more. What’s counting against the pub?
Has it got a very high rateable value due to location or something?
Nope, there's only 100 or so homes and a single pub in the village. Obviously the rates haven't doubled (the multiplier has actually fallen slightly), but the rateable value more than doubling leads to a significant increase.
I've just clocked they've changed the luxury car tax limit, from 40 -50k. If I already own a car that I pay the lux tax on that cost 41k new (i bought it second hand fir half that), do I no longer have to pay it from April?
Edit..ignore..the 50k limit is only for EVs