[Closed] British and Irish Lions

Monye is a joke why is he going?? Vickery will just look confused in the dirt trackers. Shaw is a suprise but is a lump. Flutey is a kiwi I am just bitter that Ryan Jones has missed out.

I think monye is there because he outpaced one person at the 6 nations...

Not really expecting Vickery to make the team but I suppose he offers versatility in the front row. Ryan Jones is a tough one as he struggled in the 6 nations but is a good player in form.

On current form, Ryan shouldn't be there, sad to say. Shaw's not really good enough, IMO, Gough would have been better. The choices at 9 are a little odd. Apart from Spiky Mikey, that's not the pick I would have gone for.

Moyne - pace, technique, determination, strength? I was very impressed with him the game time he got in the 6N. He is by no means the finished product but he is good already and has the potential to be great. His tackle on Evans in the Calcutta cup turned the game and he showed pace, determination and technique to do it.

Armitage is unlucky as is Ross ford A year too soon for the Evans Brothers, Vickery, Shaw, Hines, Sheridan lucky to be going. I am no fan of Worsley either - too slow.

Overall a nice blend. Speed and power, youth and experience. A team picked to play an attacking game and to win not for damage limitation.

Are two stand-offs enough against SA? especially when they're both getting on a bit.
I don't rate Harry Ellis at all and he's a dangerous little sh*t with his habbit of trying to break kickers non-kicking legs.
Worsley is old and slow (But plays for wasps like Shaw)
Andy Powell has no B game - if you shut him down early he just disapears.

Other than that it's all good.

Thought Geech might have picked a couple more Scots though.

Hugo, I agree re Powell, hence you have him warming hte bench for 50 or 60 minutes before coming on and barreling at them.

Sadly, not sure that any other Scots were ever likely to be in the running.

Neither do I. Possibly Strockosh or Ally Hog but neither of them played well in the 6 nations. It's a bit depressing really.

Still at least I can support a team in the summer that stand a chance of a win.

A few Scots that were 50 / 50 calls.
Blair ( but poor form this year)
Cussiter ( but didn't get the game time for Scotland)
Barclay, Hogg, Strokosch, Patterson ( too much competition for places, but I would have taken Barclay and Strokosch) ,
Evans brothers ( a year too soon?)
Ross Ford - I would have taken him

Could easily have been a couple of those guys going but not a big shock they are missing out. Scotlands best players are in positions that there were plenty of options

They seem a fly half short to me, Flood or Hook who could cover 12 as well perhaps?

Also a fullback short as well, I think Armitage will think himself unlucky.

Forwards seem about right, though Powell is lucky IMO, i would have taken Croft i think to give some pace to the back row and act as an extra jumper.

gutted for Ryan Jones .... but his form wasn't there.

I'm glad Andy Powell made it, up and down form but he's quick and strong, yes he can be shut down quick and is a one trick pony but they need big men.

halfpenny will be the star i reckon.

think they made the right choice with the captain aswell.

Also a fullback short as well, I think Armitage will think himself unlucky.

exactly what i thought.... that will be interesting if any injuries!

Even though he was last years player of the year, if you are picking on form Shane Williams should not be going. He is looking lost at Ospreys and did not have a six nations to remember (if you compare to last year). He no longer scares anyone

Agree with TJ, Blair was very much quoted until he had such a poor 6 nations. Very suprised Ford didn't make it, at what 28? he is at his prime as modern hookers seem to fade earlier. One pick I cannot understand is Ellis, as poor as Blair was, he or Cusiter are better than him. And Moyne?

If Shaw played for any other team there is no way he would be going, IMO Ellis isn't as good as Blair, I'm surprised that Hines is in given him missing the 6N. I though Ford might have got a look in but Murray was always the only real sure bet for us.

As for the Evans they don't have much to offer apart from pure speed, not yet anyway, and if there is someone there that is faster... Andy Powell will be a good impact sub. Rees will need to get his lineout throw dialled in, throwing to the best catcher in the game will help with that though.

I think Geech has left out the captains (Blair, Borthwick, Jones) to avoid any split leadership, too many cooks type of deal.

No idea why Quinlan is there, I think Croft is unlucky too. Glad to see Cipriani and Henson were left behind, the lions don't need those two mincing about against the boks, besides they would mess up their hair and fake tan.

Either way I don't see the Lions beating the Boks.

And what it comes down to is beating the Boks, and that is not going to happen. The thought of Burger, Matfield et all running down the 10 channel is not a nice one. And that is before it gets out to the backs.

Also a fullback short as well, I think Armitage will think himself unlucky.

There are several players going who can cover fullback.

Hook really hasn't been playing well enough this season to be discussed for the Lions.

if you are picking on form Shane Williams should not be going. He is looking lost at Ospreys and did not have a six nations to remember (if you compare to last year). He no longer scares anyone

He's not on his best form, but if not Shane, who? Who else will scare Habana?

I think in a foot race Monye would have Habana... this is purely based ont the fact that Evans managed to catch him and we all now know Monye is faster than Evans.

The problem is Habana is much better at running lines and he is better with ball in hand. The boks backs are good, better than the Lions but its the forwards that are more worrying. I can't see the Lions pack getting a push on against the bok forwards. I'd love to see it but I don't think its going to happen.

Only two fly-halves? Means they have both got to be in midweek and weekend squads? Strange no-one like Flood (or Henson if not injured) who can cover 10 and 12 is in squad. No Armitage, yet have Earls? And Quinlan, Powell and Worsley but no Croft or Ryan Jones? Rees is shit but so are the other 3 hookers. Suprised Care didnt get in rather than Ellis (they already have Pillips to do the big donkey at 9 role.

Shane hasnt had much of an opportunity this year I swear the Ospreys have a blind attack coach and Wales have not fired. Go on youtube and look up the tries he scored in SA last summer for Wales, no one else in the squad could have done that.

Henson who is a big lump with great hands is a big loss to the squad, no one else combines his size and vision/passing ability. Shame he's been crocked all season.

If the lions play a quick recycling and offloading game in the way Cardiff did against Gloucester in the EDF final or wales when they won the grandslam they should win. Get to the breakdown and get that ball moving.

You need a back row with real pace for this which is why worsley worries me.

Martin Williams and POC are masters at stealing ball as well - POC took 6 against scotland - 3 scots lineouts and 3 steals at the breakdown ( not from Scots errors either). Normally the scots strongpoint so I look forward to them doing this. Strong Lions lineout as well.

I am hopeful - so long as Ellis, Sheridan, Shaw and Worsely don't make the test side as they are too slow to play that quick game and are not used to playing it.

The sqaud looks right for the quick recycling / offloading game - I hope the test team is as well.

Flutey and BOD to create space in the backs and 3 real speedsters to score.

The BOks might as well not turn up

Sorry mate but I don't think big gay gav wouldn't have got in the squad even if he was ever fit.

And as for his vision/passing ability... if he hadn'd been such a greedy bugger in the French game and passed to one of the two open guys outside him then Wales would have got the try they needed to win the game. I agree with you on the fly halfs thing though, the boks will hammer the channel and two fly halfs won't be enough.

I would probably stick in Cueto as it is only for midweek and he can play 15 too. Halfpenny and Bowe for test team

I remain to be convinced that Flutey's defence is up to scratch if not then with the two 10's going playing a fast wide game is going to be beyond them. O'Gara is also a useless pick as he is a speed bump in defence. One of Cipriani, Henson or Hook, fit and on form would have given so much more in the way of options, that and scrum half who can pass, like Peel or Blair

And what it comes down to is beating the Boks, and that is not going to happen. The thought of Burger, Matfield et all running down the 10 channel is not a nice one. And that is before it gets out to the backs.

I think you are being overly pessimistic there. The Lions have enough experience and quality to beat SA - certainly I'm more optimistic about this tour than the last.

The Boks have class players in their backs, but the ball will have to get past Butch James first, a player who puzzles me deeply.

Sorry mate but I don't think big gay gav wouldn't have got in the squad even if he was ever fit.

And as for his vision/passing ability... if he hadn'd been such a greedy bugger in the French game and passed to one of the two open guys outside him then Wales would have got the try they needed to win the game.

Sorry mate but you clearly do not know much about the game then. Henson on form and fit is the best 12 in the British Isles by the length of a street. Go back and look at what he did in that 10 mins against France. All game Roberts had been taken man and ball by the Bastaruex, Henson comes on and his first touch almost put Byrne in for a try by getting the ball and putting in the pass and being clattered. Say what you like about him as a person but as a player he is sublimly talented. And that time you say he was greedy he made the right decision, neither of the two supporting runners came on the angle and so would have been caught by the drift and put into touch. He kept hold of the ball and the support didnt get to him in time.

Cipriani?! Away man your haverin!

The boks would chase down every kick he took, he has potential to be a great player but its a long way off yet. Hook will make an appearnce before the end of the tour, replace one of the others that are bound to get injured. O'Gara is hot and cold, he can still play well but its too inconsistent.

O'Gara is also a useless pick as he is a speed bump in defence.

Don't use him in defence then. Plenty of players can cover the defending 10 channel. It really shows the lack of quality at 10 in the UK when we are talking about Hook or Cipriani being in the Lions.

Burger is not as good as the hype. Good player but not unbeatable Last time Scotland toured there J White played him out of the game - knocked him back and turned him over every time he got the ball eventually tackling him so hard he went off injured. worsleys job this time?

TJ correct, and to protect the 10 channel as he did for England

Plenty of players can cover the defending 10 channel. It really shows the lack of quality at 10 in the UK when we are talking about Hook or Cipriani being in the Lions.

Yeah why not get worsley to stand at the 10 channel and then wonder why the oppo 7 has a free run like england did (except it was 12) and if Flutey's defence was that great why did they do that?

Anyway cpriani or hook fit and on form would offer options to change the style of play whereas jones and o'gara dont.

Henson on form and fit is the best 12 in the British Isles by the length of a street.

I have to disagree on that one, but it's a fine line and is going to come down to opinion. There's no way any Lions coach could gamble on him though, even if he was fit - if you're the best in the world, "on your day" isn't good enough - you have to show consistency, remain injury free and not be a tosser on top of everything. Yes, he can turn the odd game here or there but he can't do it consistently.

Great shout for captain of course - best lock in the world (on his day 😉 )- take the pressure off BOD - you want somebody to front it up when tossing the coin with some giant South African.

Stunned everyone seems content that Mike Phillips is going. We have potentially a mouth watering backline that will be supplied by stupidly slow service. He is a big lump. So what? Give me a fast passing, creative thinking scrum half any day. Phillips is neither. Would not pick him for Wales far less the Lions.

I think Ross Ford should be there and believe Worsely was England's standout player in the 6 nations so deserves to be there. Mike Blair and Ryan Jones played themsleves out of contention!

Not suprised Henson is not there but I agree he is a gifted player (if a bit of an ass off the field)

Reckon we will take them though 🙂

Anyway cpriani or hook fit and on form would offer options to change the style of play whereas jones and o'gara dont.

But they aren't on form are they, so the luxury of choosing them isn't there. But would you really pick Cipriani the chargedown kid to play v SA anyway? And Hook is not a Lions standard OH yet - he makes the odd break, misses easy kicks, and can't control the game. Believe me, I live 5 minutes walk from the Liberty Stadium and have a season ticket - I'd love to say that Hook is 1st choice for the Lions, but he's simply not good enough.

Defending the 10 channel isn't exactly a new tactic - it just depends on how well you do it.

Stunned everyone seems content that Mike Phillips is going.

I would have thought his qualities v SA would be obvious - big, aggressive, will take on their back rowers and tie them in. His pass isn't too bad, although he doesn't always take the right option. Again, the same problem arises with no9 as no10, who else? There's not exactly a standout UK scrum half at the mo, fit or not.

On sort of a side note... why is tomas o'leary deemed better than peter stringer?? More of an allrounder and better tackler/bigger? Stringer justs seem so much faster getting the ball out, as well as mixing things up abit..

Because Stringer has made one single break in the whole time he has ever played rugby. It led to a try, iirc, because nobody in the ground expected him to do anything but pass.

Wont they put Joe Worsley in the No 10 channel? was pretty effective at nullifying Wales and others in the 6 nations

But they aren't on form are they, so the luxury of choosing them isn't there. But would you really pick Cipriani the chargedown kid to play v SA anyway? And Hook is not a Lions standard OH yet - he makes the odd break

No there not but my point is that without Henson, without Hook or without Cipriani the lions look very one dimensional at half back especially when the scrium halves are all very similar to each other. Phillips, O'Leary and Ellis are all just different versions of each other, someone like Peel or Care (dont know why he wasnt picked) would provide a different style to come off the bench. If Jones and Phillips start and the Lions are losing and need to chase the game for the last twenty bringing on Ellis and O'Gara isnt going to shake things up much, whereas having the option of a player like Flood or Hook or Cipriani and Care or Peel would. Shocked Flood didnt get picked and shocked neither Peel or Care got picked.

Anyway I dont see the Lions doing well to be honest. How many players in that squad are the best in the world in their position?

even if he was fit - if you're the best in the world, "on your day" isn't good enough - you have to show consistency

Two grand slams were he started all games suggest he has that.

Wont they put Joe Worsley in the No 10 channel? was pretty effective at nullifying Wales and others in the 6 nations

You do realise that whilst worsley was doing Flutey's tackling for him against Roberts that Martyn Williams had a field day at the breakdown and was the major reason why England kept getting players sent to the sin bin and lost dont you?

I'd probably agree with you about the similarity at half back, anagallis. (Apart from Phillips of course)

You do realise that whilst worsley was doing Flutey's tackling for him against Roberts that Martyn Williams had a field day at the breakdown and was the major reason why England kept getting players sent to the sin bin and lost dont you?

Yeh but I dont think Worsley is particuarly effective at the breakdown anyway. He is a good tackler but other than that pretty slow and ponderous with ball in hand. But I suspect that they will try and out muscle the Bok's

 

Worsley totally outplayed the Welsh back row in Cardiff IMO.

No doubt Worsley is there in an attempt to match the brute force but we need a turn over / breakdown player.

If Williams can recapture some form then the backrow balance will be right. Just a pity we may need to wait a week for Phillips to take several steps and pass the ball

From my fairly limited knowledge it seems that the squad is aimed around limiting their losses against S.A, is that a fair comment? All the talk of the management about 'combinations' seems orientated more around protecting physical weaknesses of certain players than allowing attacking combinations. Granted you have to do that to a certain extent, but it seems the plan is to hold in there rather than take the game to S.A too much.

I guess it comes down to the players they have to choose from. I would love to see outstanding players comfortable in more traditional roles. Most of the comments here seem to sum it up, being along the lines of "yes so and so isn't good but who is better"?

Phillips for example seems to be chosen for his more physical nature than a smaller but more technically gifted 9, but how much tackling would you realistically expect a scrum half to put in with a competent back row and centres etc? A Dawsonalike would be great 😉 I just have the nagging felling that the Lions will be defending weaknesses (or perceived weaknesses) more than playing to their strengths. Just the way it has come across so far...

-Armitage has done well to be fair but I don't think he'd last 5 minutes against S.A.
-Halfpenny and Bowe seem like the most realistic wings to prosper but lack a bit of magic perhaps
-I am surprised about O'Gara. With all the talk of "form" he should be embarassed to be in as should Williams 🙂 He seems to need his hand holding quite a lot to get the best out of him (O'Gara that is).
-Jones has to look most likely to do well at 10 but a third option would have perhaps been wise with the number of games of the tour.
-Shanklin and Jenkins are the ideal players for this tour so it's good to see them in
-Powell will struggle I think as most have already suggested
-Pleased to see Keith Earls in.
-I wish Doug Howlett was British or Irish 🙂 He just seems right for what S.A need, i.e. someone to be worried about keeping an eye on all the time.

.... Just my random musings to avoid afternoon work 🙂

I think that rather depends on the test team from the squad - the players are there to go for either taking them on for brute power or for outpacing them

I think the aim maybe to match them for muscle in the forwards but have fast backs to make space and move the ball round the park.

10 is the real issue for me but the 2 best eligible tens are there

Interesting to see that Ryan Jones and Gatland seem to be having a bit of a tiff at the mo too... I wonder what's going on there