Brilliant solution! Another triumph of Brexiteer logic!
Add another level of bureaucracy to process the rebates, then the taxpayer will have to provide a subsidy to private companies to compensate them for the costs they’ve now incurred by an act of utterly pointless stupidity that has no tangible benefits?
Anything else we should be subsidising, while we’re at it? Any more pointless red tape you’d like to add in to the mix?
Sorry what?
That's where we are, its an issue we have to deal with now.
Are we still harking back and bemoaning what we've lost or are we moving on?
How would you solve it Binners? Or do you deny that its an issue that needs solving?
How could they make companies sell to Northern Ireland (what is classed as a big company, what % of products sold on mainland would need to be sold in NI). I mean if tesco had say 12 shops in NI and they were not profitable then they would reduce as much as they could the amount of shops/ produce they sent there. Typical of this government come up with some half arsed idea that will probably create more problems than it solves.
It’s actually quite funny how hypocritical Arlene is “ it is important that they realise that part of the United Kingdom is being treated differently” it suits her just fine when it’s political divergence from the UK on women’s rights, same sex rights etc, basically anything against the dinosaur-disbelievers creed.
Its not just about the cost, it's the time consuming red tape and not having the staff to do it
How would you solve it Binners? Or do you deny that its an issue that needs solving?
Not my ****ing problem. You geniuses voted for it. You sort it out! Just don't use my taxes to subsidise your stupidity.
Maybe issue each package going to NI with its own blue passport?
It’s actually quite funny how hypocritical Arlene is “ it is important that they realise that part of the United Kingdom is being treated differently” it suits her just fine when it’s political divergence from the UK on women’s rights, same sex rights etc, basically anything against the dinosaur-disbelievers creed.
Yes I was thinking this yesterday, we've always been treated differently.
How would you solve it Binners? Or do you deny that its an issue that needs solving?
All of the UK being in the same trade area. And all of Ireland being in the same trade area. Minimise the barriers to trade between NI & GB, while also minimising the barriers to trade between NI & the rest of Ireland. I'd go further and have one VAT system, but that would be a politically hard sell even in the face of the ongoing mess we're creating for ourselves.
Perhaps they could do that for all shipments into the Single Market. I think we’ve found the answer to making post Brexit trade work! Good job the communists didn’t get in, eh.
And give our largest trading partner another reason to look elsewhere.
I'm not sure what you mean asbrooks, my comment wasn't meant to be serious in any way.
Its not just about the cost, it’s the time consuming red tape and not having the staff to do it
Time is money
The best thing about all this is that the whole 'teething problems' nonsense becomes even less credible to even the hardest-of-thinking with each week that passes.
The penny must surely be dropping that this is permanent. This is what happens when you're a 'third country'. The EU won't be 'renegotiating' anything. Why should they?
We have just voluntarily erected barriers to free trade and created new levels of pointless bureaucracy. To all intents and purposes we've imposed economic sanctions on ourselves
The level of stupidity involved in this whole project is absolutely off the scale
The EU won’t be ‘renegotiating’ anything.
They will be. It's already set out in the agreements we have with them that this will be happening. They just won't be entertaining the constant negotiations and slicing that the UK government wants. Our relationship with the EU will keep shifting, but they will keep a tight rein on how and when these shifts take place. It's what they do. The next big chance for major changes happens to be well timed with our next general election. Be careful who you vote for...
I think Binners is just posting "boilerplate statements" at this stage.
I’m not sure what you mean asbrooks, my comment wasn’t meant to be serious in any way
My bad, I need those stupid emojis to help me understand sarcasm.
What I meant, If we put additional cost on products from the UK on to our EU customers they will eventually look elsewhere to purchase their goods.
Lets face it we are not discussing single consumer items here are we. We are discussing orders of large value. Even a small percentage increase per item becomes unpalatable over the whole order value. This is why I worry about my Job. The last two orders into the EU have been held up by ridiculous extra customs checks and we have been fined by our customers for late delivery. This bit is irrelevant to my post
Which bit of Binners' last post do you disagree with dougiedogg?
I share your concerns asbrooks.
Which bit of Binners’ last post do you disagree with dougiedogg?
None of it, i'm just commenting on the repetitive nature of it, I'm pretty sure i've read the same statement 20x.
Ah... yes, he's gone back to basics, hasn't he... presumably prompted by being asked to square the circle of the NI situation with GB and Ireland no longer being in the same trading area. He was one of those screaming at people claiming that it could all be sorted with some "imagination" years ago. It can't. We can find ways to minimise delays, costs and divisions... but after years of putting those ways in place, we'll still be in a mess of our own making. Well, I say "our"... but most people directly effected by this part of the Brexit conundrum voted not to make this mess, didn't they. They should have been listened to.
None of it, i’m just commenting on the repetitive nature of it, I’m pretty sure i’ve read the same statement 20x.
And still there's no solution.
Ask yourself why there's no solution that works (except the one we had before).
Indeed. When drunken, SAS, Brexiteer numbskull David Davis was proposing 'magical thinking' all those years ago, it was pointed out that there are only 2 options available, but really there is only one.
1. A border across the Irish mainland - but the GFA expressly forbids this
so:
2. A border in the Irish Sea
Thats it. There are no other options. There never was.
So all this has been inevitable for years, ever since the day that the Maybot drew her ridiculous red lines. Now all the chickens are coming home to roost the Brexiteers are acting surprised, which means they're either completely delusional or as thick as mince. I suspect that in most cases - and David Davis is your prime example - it's a combination of the two.
we've imposed sanctions on ourselves.....awesome work.
project fear was in fact project reality, we are going to be going backwards for at least a decade, we'll be begging for closer alignment with the EU in the coming years and I cant see them welcoming us with open arms.
I have zero shits to give for anyone that supported this shitshow, i wish it was just them that will be feeling the pain, sadly the main protagonists will make a tidy sum out of it.
Binners you've missed a possibility off your list. Delusional, thick, or malevolently mendacious. I know which one I think.
A border across the Irish mainland – but the GFA expressly forbids this
It doesn't.
Yey! Mefty's here to solve the conundrum! Will have the solution laid out before us now...
I think the Brexit Fire Brigade is modelled on the one from Fahrenheit 451
The Trumpton mob look like the epitome of professionalism by comparison!
It doesn’t.
Semantics.
It forbids any border infrastructure.
If you have a look at any border between different trading regimes, you'll notice that there tends to be an awful lot of infrastructure. And we've all had fair warning what any border infrastructure would lead to in Ireland. Not the brexiteers appear to give a shit
It forbids any border infrastructure.
No it doesn't
It doesn’t.
Well, it does, it says, "The removal of Security Installations" But there's nothing about customs or checks
But the GFA does say that one can be either a citizen of the UK and/or a citizen of the Republic and live and work in either state with equal access to employment rights and legislation (free movement, and the single market especially). And that does seem at face value to be incompatible with border checks.
The thing is that either new border option (as it happens, we're using a bit of both... some of the new divisions are on the island) weakens that concept. Anything we put in place postBrexit, short of all UK as good as joining Ireland in the SM & CU, messes things up... we're just trying to reduce the impact of that mess... and the NIP is part of that... it's not great... it's better than other options. It's a fudge. Maybe it can be improved on. But those still claiming a fudge isn't needed seem to want to divide Ireland further, no matter the consequences to the people living north and south of the border, because their view of Britishness means not blurring the lines between "us" Brits and those that live with us or near us who either aren't Brits, or are British and...
Not the brexiteers appear to give a shit
There is a case for saying that the opinions of woolly faced murderers (New IRA) making threats to governments from their bedrooms, should be held in the upmost of contempt and shouldn't form the basis of political decisions made by governments.
Well, it does, it says, “The removal of Security Installations” But there’s nothing about customs or checks
Precisely so there could be checks or a basic customs office for those carrying freight to check into - not that there was ever a formal proposal to do that. Most, if not all, of the movement rights exist under the CTA anyway.
So that's your solution Mefty? Unsecured border facilities all across the island of Ireland? How many? What happens if they aren't just met with a friendly shrug? (Of course there are similar issues having "harder" border facilities at every port of entry from GB... this isn't about choosing a good option over a bad one, it's about a balance of using some attributes of two rubbish options to try and create a less bad option, because the politicians have ruled out the use of any good options).
I’m sure all these teething problems will vanish once the extra procedures etc come into play in April and July.
Entirely likely. Because everyone trying to move goods will have gone bust by then.
How would you solve it Binners? Or do you deny that its an issue that needs solving?
Of course it's an issue that needs solving. But this is a problem of your making. Don't project that onto Binners, it's not his monkey.
You've hit a vase with a hammer and are now standing there looking at everyone else and going "well, what are you going to do about it?" **** that, how would YOU solve it?
It doesn’t.
It does. And I've provided as much evidence to back up my claim as you have. I think I'm going to coin this "Pantomime Logic."
You’ve hit a vase with a hammer and are now standing there looking at everyone else and going “well, what are you going to do about it?” **** that, how would YOU solve it?
I mentioned a solution to the specific issue of companies not delivering to N.I and was ridiculed for it by Binners. It may not have been a great solution, fine, however as Binners was the one to ridicule me I asked him for a solution, for that specific issue.
It does
Text of Belfast/GFA
Here’s the text, just point out where it does.
I see 9 matches for border, none of which say anything about a hard border, no matches for customs.
Most, if not all, of the movement rights exist under the CTA anyway.
Erm...there was a plan (in 2016) to suggest that British Customs might be stationed at Republic ports and Airports to check EU citizens (not Republic or NI citizens) but the plans weren't ever finalised, and I think politicians in the Republic (quite rightly perhaps?) suggested that they wouldn't be happy having another country's border agency operating in their country thanks ever so much, and could the UK please have another go at it...so no, the CTA rights aren't at all certain
How would you solve it Binners?
I dunno about Binners but I'd solve it by marching us all straight back into the EU, Schengen, Euro and all. **** Brexit, and **** Brexiteers, is my current state of mind.
I mentioned a solution to the specific issue of companies not delivering to N.I and was ridiculed for it by Binners.
Quite rightly because it was pie in the sky claptrap.
+1 for molgrips solution too
it says they will
intensify co-operation between the two
Governments on the all-island or cross-border aspects of these matters.
border checks would be the opposite of that
the bigger issue is that a customs border would impede the daily movement of people between the countries
the GFA & the freedom that followed from it would have been almost impossible without the frictionless flow of people & goods allowed by CU & SM membership
no matches for customs
Because... wait for it... there are no customs checks between two countries in the Customs Union... which was the state of affairs between all three parties when this was written. The "close cooperation ... as partners in the European Union" means there is no need for all the "where do we put the customs checks" problems we now have... they are an entirely new mess imposed on the majority of the people of NI, and all the people of the island of Ireland, by "the UK" (in effect England&Wales, with support from the DUP who never wanted the Good Friday Agreement, they want it torn up... I've still no idea what those that voted with the DUP in NI in the referendum were thinking... who were they trusting in to sort out the aftermath of a Leave vote?)
(Actually... you're an example dougiedogg... why did you go along with the DUP* in the referendum... why did you trust them rather than all the other** groups in NI... and who did you think would sort out the postBrexit mess for you?)
*who didn't support The Good Friday agreement.
**who did support The Good Friday agreement.
Why do you think I "went along with the DUP"?
As an aside, you do realise the GFA involved the release of murderers from prison? Quite a reasonable reason to be against it BTW.
I voted for Brexit to remove a level of government, that was my reason for voting, nothing else. I don't want to discuss that either as it has been discussed to death.
Molgrips : I dunno about Binners but I’d solve it by marching us all straight back into the EU, Schengen, Euro and all. * Brexit, and * Brexiteers, is my current state of mind.
Sounds like an entirely sensible solution to me
I voted for Brexit to remove a level of government, that was my reason for voting, nothing else.
So, who do you think is going to fix the mess you’ve helped make? The UK government of the time warned you about it. Every living past Prime Minister warned you about it. All the political parities in NI except the DUP warned you about it. Who are you expecting to sort it out for you? Could it perhaps be that the “level of government” you wanted done away with did in fact aid cooperation and reduce barriers between the UK and Ireland in a way that made The Good Friday Agreement, and today’s relative peace and prosperity, possible in NI? So, what replaces all that, and who do you trust to deliver it for you?