The Scottish goverment elections are coming up fairly soon, and from where I am sitting the SNP are in with a really good chance of getting a majority this time round.
With that would come an independence referendum and probably eventually independece.
When that day comes what will it mean for the countries that at present make up the UK?
Doubtful they could get a vote on independence passed. Its always a lower number of people want independence than vote SNP.
Scotland would be richer not having to support England. Scotland would be nuclear free in a very few years.
England would have a tory government for ever
TJ you make the assumption that england would let scotland keep its budget and revenue generating assets..
I'm pretty sure one of them would sink.
Toys - its clear in law - there is Scottish and English marine resources
england would let scotland keep its budget and revenue generating assets..
you are making the assumption they would /could take it.
Engand would split IMHO the north is nowhere neare as right wing as the the south [generally]
Toys;how could the English stop them? Tourism and what little is left of the oil are in Scottish territory.They will NOT win a ref on full indy,so it is a bit of a non-issue anyway. As a wee aside,before the free-prescriptions brigade launch forth,how much are the [b]LONDON[/b] Olympics costing the rest of the UK? (Takes his place in the Schiltron next to Junkyard and err..TJ)
Toys;how could the English stop them
Probably all out war!
This has already been discussed in parliment has it not, during the early stages of devolution there was a whole clause about the underground and marine assets not being part of it, some crap about them already being owned by the crown (or UK plc or something like that). It would be like Scotland going independent and taking TJ's flat because he isn't scottish.
EDIT - Duckman, I don't want the bloody olympics, I don't think they are good for anyone except those people building edifices to themselves.
TJ - step away from the forum chap. You're being baited.
Flat[b]s[/b] don't you know TJ is a property tycoon now? 😀
The Southern Yeti - MemberTJ - step away from the forum chap. You're being baited.
Indeed. Not very subtly either
What's the weather like up there at the moment?
I'm planning on travelling light, do you think I'll get away with shorts and flip flops?
Serious question.
YAwn...
Who's baiting who? There is a discussion to be had here, and quite an interesting one.
The Crown Estate owns Britain’s entire inter-tidal zone, therefore if England and Scotland were to split the Queen still has full control of all of the oil and gas coming ashore. As the Crown Estate is separate to both England and Scotland (but pays into the treasury) what happens there?
Okay, as you were.
Anyone fancy a 'where did your username come from' thread?
The Crown Estate owns Britain’s entire inter-tidal zone, therefore if England and Scotland were to split the Queen still has full control of all of the oil and gas coming ashore. As the Crown Estate is separate to both England and Scotland (but pays into the treasury) what happens there?
That was my point..
JEngledow
There is clear legal precedent for dividing up offshore assets and when North sea oli was first being explored it was divided into Scottish and English zones as Scotland has a differnt legal system
Could we just copy and paste one of the previous threads and all go to the pub instead?
This might be true but as I said before the UK Parliament when it set up devolution made a point of excluding these assets. If it was as easy as you say then why would the SNP be campaigning to get all of its oil revenue after independence?
akira - what are you drinking? Grab a table in the sun and I'll get some pork scratchings an' all.
I suspect LIz will play ball if she doesn't want the council tax on Balmoral to increase by a fairly substantiall amount - say £100 million?
Is there room in the Schiltron for one more - I brought my own spear and painted my arse specially/
Scottish Independence? My opinion?
Scotland would eventually become the Albania of Western Europe. 😕
Is no-one proud to be British anymore? Each of the constituent parts of Great Britain is a rich and prosperous nation because it's part of a greater entity.
I will never understand why anyone would want independence. Look at where we stand in the world as a United Kingdom! Oh, and I think we should have a GB footie team. 😈
Beagy
We all know what will happen. There would be an alliance formed of small, independent countries... lets think of an abstarct name for such a concept... erm... I"VE GOT IT... an Arc Of Prosperity. Us left behind in England would be powerless in the face of such a thing and would return to the dark ages, living in mud huts and eating our own young. The whole country would look like Yorkshire
Anyway... I think Akira's right. We could all meet somewhere accessible, just over the border perhaps. Somewhere we could ride bikes. Glentress anyone? 😀
Scotland would eventually become the Albania of Western Europe.
More likely to be England - once the banks up sticks and head for pastures new what have you got left to generate income? Actually, given you won't even be able to afford the electricity we currently sell you at subsidised rates, you're more likely to become the Ukraine to our Russia.
Anyway, as others have said already, I doubt there will be a vote for independence up here anytime soon - we're currently demonstrating how devolution has given us enough of a safety zone from another Tory government, so the motivation isn't anywhere near as strong as it was post-Thatcher.
There is clear legal precedent for dividing up offshore assets and when North sea oli was first being explored it was divided into Scottish and English zones as Scotland has a differnt legal system
Have you seen the way we have of dealing with potential threats to our oil supply 😉
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I love the way TJ refuses to engage with me. He won't argue with anyone who is prepared to actually stand up to his opinion, he just comes on here makes a statement and only talks to like minded people. Weak.
There is clear legal precedent for dividing up offshore assets and when North sea oli was first being explored it was divided into Scottish and English zones as Scotland has a differnt legal system
I'm not asking about the off shore assets, but the short section of pipe between the sea and the land which is on land leased from the Crown Estate.
As ditch_jockey says the Queen would probably just play ball (if Charlie doesn't do her in first!), but it could still go either way!
Have you seen the way we have of dealing with potential threats to our oil supply
Will you send both Tornados at once, or one at a time to keep us guessing?
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13081691 ]Ur airforce is Saracin[/url]
TJ - there isn't all that much oil left under the N Sea. The Scots (and the Surrey Highlanders like yourself) would be akin to Bahrain and other similar countries - a few years of boom then desperate scrabbling to find something else to generate the squandered income now depleted. Far less of the boom than the Middle East as so little is left.
Will you send both Tornados at once, or one at a time to keep us guessing?
It wouldn't matter - angry drunk men painted in blue woad throwing stones is not a Ground Based Air Defence System worth talking about.
Never mind oil, I believe the future will be renewables and I sincerely hope Scotland takes the lead as it's a natural resource base for wind, wave, tidal et al.
I don't believe it would have much affect on the other countries, but would certainly improve the identity we have with our respected countries.
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It's all rubbish all of it, I'll be on this if anyone wants me I'm sailing away from all of it.....
anyone want to stow away?
Room for a little one Bagpuss?
I often wonder about the practicalities of becoming an independent country.
Like, would we need to start up our own army, navy and TAF (teuchters air force).
What would we do about currency. Surely not adopt the Euro. So what would the currency be called? Haggis (in lieu of pounds) and neeps (in lieu of pence)? Just Beer Tokens?
toys19 - MemberI love the way TJ refuses to engage with me. He won't argue with anyone who is prepared to actually stand up to his opinion, he just comes on here makes a statement and only talks to like minded people. Weak.
Weak bait. This has been done before,I have given you all the data, there is no legal doubt at all about ownership of the oil and other offshore reserves. Clear international treaties and ways of dividing assets, Clear demarcation between English , Scottish and Norwegian fields, you forget the queen is Scotland's queen as well.
You didn't want to listen last time we did this why should I waste my time again especially as its a moot point anyway.
Federal Britain.
You didn't want to listen last time we did this
Y'know, there is a difference between listening and agreeing. We do listen to you, we just don't agree. You seem to have trouble with that.
Just out of intrest, what's so bad about being British anyway?
Just out of intrest, what's so bad about being British anyway?
they let the scots [i]and[/i] welsh in the club too.
Molgrips _ I provided him with all the legal stuff which shows very clearly the ownership of the oil. He denies this exists. Its just clear baiting and worthy of being ignored. So yes - he ( and you ) do not listen 'cos if you did we wouldn't be back with this dead debate.
I do listen, I just disagree. Not on this, I'm withholding because it's so complicated that debating it is pointless since no-one can tell what'll really happen.
Just out of intrest, what's so bad about being British anyway?
He's as English as a Sunday roast with Yorkshire puddings and English mustard, Sat in the Red Lion drinking Bitter. He's like one of dem self-hating jews innit? 🙂 Imagine if it ended up like Yugoslavia! You might be ethnically cleansed TJ
Bagpuss - Where you going on the yacht? other side of Angelzarc? Nice day for it. Mind if i tag along? 😉
I'm neither for or against. If the majority of Scots want it, they should have it. They will survive the turmoil it causes. And so will the English and Welsh.
Just out of intrest, what's so bad about being British anyway?
It involves being guilty by association with bams like this...
So that guys presumably a lot different to all the Scots who want 'Scotland to be about Scottish'?
England would have a tory government for ever
You really don't understand the mechanics of bourgeois democracy do you TJ .... there's no chance of that.
It is one of the eternal truths that no electorate in any bourgeois democracy is ever sufficiently satisfied with its governments, that it wishes to keep the same party in power indefinitely.
Capitalism is more or less in constant crises and because of the contradictions of capitalism, no party is ever able to resolve the crises satisfactorily.
This invariably leads to a dissatisfied electorate which eventually votes the governing party out of office. Opposition parties everywhere, rarely "win" elections - governments nearly always "lose" them.
So whilst it might appear that a English Welsh union would always have a Tory government, the dialectical conditions would very quickly lead to the creation of an opposing force - with which power would rotate.
In parliamentary democracies throughout the world power between ruling and opposition parties is very finely balanced, and they find their equilibrium very quickly - you will never have a three-quarters to a quarter ratio for very long.