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The Press are often wrong in the first few hours after an event like this - there are a number of 9/11 conspiracies based around a "broken timeline" because things were reported before they happened, in truth it's a chaotic situation and offical press releases are often short and come slowly. 7/7 was the same, knee jerk stories of other attacks that didn't exist, some in London, some elsewhere, half truths and rumours spread like wildfire.
Be wary of any story or news flash that started "it's been reported" the credibility is so lacking they won't even put their name to it.
thepurist - MemberGiven the surveillance of that area and the apparent number of police witnesses, I'm puzzled how there is any uncertainty about the number of attackers or the number of cars involved.
Conflicting eyewitness reports seem to be at the heart of it, some people reported a white attacker, others a black attacker. Probably partly people seeing another person and thinking it was the attacker, partly people filling in gaps in their own recollection, and partly people deliberately making shit up.
That and they have to be cautious incase there are further attacks as it's really quite common. They don't mean necessary that the suspected additional attacker was at the same location.
And unfortunately the Donald wades in on twitter with a political attack quoting out of context.
My father just called, he's been told one of the victims was a women who he closely works with. 2 little girls and a husband left behind.
I can't believe that some people think this thread might be the place and time for humour.WTF is wrong with people?
Writing observations, assertions and comments within minutes/hours of events like this, is all the crassness that you need.
What's actually said is largely irrelevant.
No respectful reflection for a period - just straight into full-tilt commentary and arguments.
Yay internet.
And unfortunately the Donald wades in on twitter
Not that I wish to cut The Donald any slack, but it was his son. So he's a **** too it seems.
And unfortunately the Donald wades in on twitter with a political attack quoting out of context.
That's not Donald (who's opinion regrettably matters). It's one of his odious, entitled, i'm-in-charge-now-spawn so please ignore it. It just happens to have the same name for reasons of narcissism.
See the words Moderator next to Drac's name, have a guess what they mean?
He's slightly less up his arse than you are?
Nah! Way more. IMHO.
ffs
I guess that cctv on the bridge and surrounding area is comprehensive and will provide a good, if not harrrowing, account of what happened, however, officials can't fully release the details till they cover things like informing next of kin, checking for accomplices etc.
Unfortunately, random idiots waving knives and driving into people can't be predicted or prevented in advance...
Exactly right, which is why it's become a tactic encouraged by those driving such terrorist attacks, the 'lone wolf' attacker, motivated by hate-filled rhetoric, but with no direct links with any recognised groups.
It also has the effect of not giving those affected any specific target to direct their anger at, like the IRA, for example, so creating the unfortunate consequence of anger and hatred being aimed at those who happen to look like they might be involved, which results in a vicious circle of escalating tensions and violence between communities.
I was sat for an hour on the M5 near Taunton today after an incident involving multiple emergency vehicles, an air ambulance, and at the same time listening to the news reports on the radio; one event will barely get a mention, and I can only hope nobody was seriously injured, but in the unfortunate event anyone was, to those close to them the long-term effects will be just as devastating as those in London.
I also know there is a particular human trait, when faced with events that are of a scale that's difficult to comprehend to want to balance it with a dark and often almost malicious type of humour; this trait can easily be controlled, in public at least, it's just a shame that there are quite a few here who seem to lack the ability to display that control, their crass insensitivity does them no credit whatsoever.
But I guess we should expect nothing else.
I also know there is a particular human trait, when faced with events that are of a scale that's difficult to comprehend to want to balance it with a dark and often almost malicious type of humour; this trait can easily be controlled, in public at least, it's just a shame that there are quite a few here who seem to lack the ability to display that control, their crass insensitivity does them no credit whatsoever.
But I guess we should expect nothing else.
Sorry, but I really don't agree with that. Black humour is a perfectly reasonable way to approach death, that you don't agree with it doesn't mean it "does them no credit" - that's your opinion, no more, no less. I remember some very black humour being shared between my siblings, father and I last year when my mother died, it doesn't mean any lack of respect but rather one way that some of us deal with the subject.
Still, by all means get offended if you prefer. I will keep laughing at death and dying. It seems a lot healthier tbh.
copper on tele has just confirmed it is 'Muslim related terrorism'
It's a damn shame but it makes you realize how lucky we are... things like this are a regular occurence in many of the countries that have to live with the legacy of decisions made in our parliament, paid for by the taxes we have to pay.
Imagine having to flee your country with your family because of utter devastation caused by a conflict decided upon by men in suits half the world away.
The problem is conflict breeds conflict and hate breeds hate and despite the best efforts of a lot of good people, it doesn't seem to be slowing down.
Thoughts to all those affected, let's not let hate and fear divide us.
The problem is conflict breeds conflict and hate breeds hate and despite the best efforts of a lot of good people, it doesn't seem to be slowing down.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/20/wars-john-gray-conflict-peace
Apparently, you're so wrong - you're flat earth wrong Jive.
Which actually doesn't surprise me hahahah - given some of your other ideas. 😈 😛
But broadly, I agree with your sentiment.
I've just made the mistake of going onto twitter to check for updates and the posts from a certain political subsection of American society are horrendous in their misplaced venom and hatred towards muslims, there's one particular pic showing a woman wearing a headscarf obviously in shock walking past an injured person on the bridge being attended to and some of the comments directed at her are **** horrific, I thought that perhaps the hatred would be confined to a few posts but there are bloody hundreds of them.
Wtf is our so called all welcoming western society heading towards?
Actually somafunk, I'm a massive ****ing misanthrope, why there aren't more people killing each other and/or inciting genocide is often a genuine surprise to me - I mostly regard humans as barely evolved shit hurling chimpanzees, so I was expecting worse. The comments to me seem to be overwhelmingly defending the woman. Twitter seems reasonably sane right now.
A terrible event.
Also terrible because it will act as an "excuse" to spout hatred against Muslims in this country and abroad.
No-one wins in this.
Why don't they keep religion away from things like this, call the perpetrator a terrorist or an extremist or a radical or an idiot or whatever, but stop referring to religion or even ethnicity of the perpetrator. It would stop a lot of unnecessary tensions between innocent people in my view.
Firstly, my heartfelt sympathies go out to those, and the families of those, who were killed and injured today by the misguided and pointless acts of a very deranged individual.
However; the 'international terrorism' media speculation storm that is going on tonight is ridiculous. This is patently the act of an individual who has serious mental health issues. He may well have been influenced by religious fundamentalism, but as far as we know it is not a 'given'. Yes, his skin was brown. But the fact is: nobody in their right mind attempts an attack on the Palace of Westminster armed with a car and a knife. He may have considered himself a 'lone wolf', or martyr, or servant of whatever - if we are to believe what the mainstream press is gushing about. He may equally have just had a shit day, or lost his children owing to a crappy divorce, been evicted, lost his job, been high or pissed. We actually don't know.
I'm not defending him or his actions.
But I am definitely questioning the automatic assumption that this was a 'terrorist' act. Even more so, I am questioning the media's sensationalism, and the willingness of politicians to immediately jump on the band-wagon, before any facts are even known.
I do hope that I am proven wrong in my cynicism. It would be much easier to just attribute it to 'Terrorism'.
That's a very reasonable point votchy, but since the powers that be seem intent on blaming Muslims, why are they all allied with Saudi Arabia, who actively spread the most extreme forms of Islam globally?
Like I said, we're lucky, just look at what's happening in Iraq, Syria and Yemen...
Dark humour does have it's place, whether that's as a coping mechanism or something else. But the audience is crucial. Between family members after a death, or perhaps in a police/ambulance/fire brigade canteen after a traumatic incident, then fair enough. But you've no idea who's reading it on here, it's no more appropriate on a public forum than it is for me to do it at the scene of a fatal accident or something.
<mod>
JHJ, a gentle warning. I approve of your earlier sentiment and it was a kind thing to say, but if you turn this into a mouthpiece for one of your conspiracies I will ban you faster than you can say "makes you think."
</mod>
"Quick to judge
Quick to anger
Slow to understand
Ignorance and prejudice
And fear walk hand in hand."
Yay internet.
"Yay assholes" ITYM.
copper on tele has just confirmed it is 'Muslim related terrorism'
Is he qualified to make that statement?
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority
there's one particular pic showing a woman wearing a headscarf obviously in shock walking past an injured person on the bridge being attended to and some of the comments directed at her are **** horrific
I saw that earlier. The person is already being tended to; what else should she have done instead? Is she a paramedic, does she have skills that would've helped the situation? Should she have stood and gawped (which probably would've illicited the same backlash, "look at her gloating")? Lynched for the crime of "being there" and "being brown," sheesh.
Why don't they keep religion away from things like this
Because it's in the best interests of certain parties to go "hey, Muslims."
I've done no such thing... if you have to ban me, ban me, but I'm not the one mentioning flat earth...
It's a damn shame that there's people dying the world over, due to twisted facts and legacies of ill decisions made in the same building the brave policeman who died today was protecting.
"Quick to judge
Quick to anger
Slow to understand
Ignorance and prejudice
And fear walk hand in hand."
[b]Zippykona,[/b] a perfect quote for an instance like this.
Sorry, but I really don't agree with that. Black humour is a perfectly reasonable way to approach death,
You might want to read what he said again.
[b]Cougar[/b] and[b] jhj[/b]: I have no interest in getting involved in your conversation, and I approve of transparent moderation, but . . is 'on forum' the right place for a spat, given the nature of events today?
>grabs coat and leaves quickly<
I've done no such thing... if you have to ban me, ban me, but I'm not the one mentioning flat earth...
You don't need banning Jive, I was mostly being tongue in cheek earlier matey. I hope Cougar understands....
DT78 - Member
My father just called, he's been told one of the victims was a women who he closely works with. 2 little girls and a husband left behind.
Very sorry to hear this mate. Its things that personalise events like this (even if its "JUST" a bloke from a forum I visit) that hit home.
Especially in view of the number of point scoring posts between your's and mine. My condolences to your Dad's colleague, not that they mean a thing after an event like this.
[quote="muslim council of britain"]
We are shocked and saddened by the incident at Westminster. We condemn this attack and while it is still too early to speculate on the motives, our thoughts and prayers are for the victims and those affected. We pay tribute too to the police and emergency services who handled this with bravery. The Palace of Westminster is the centre of our democracy and we must all ensure that it continues to serve our country and its people with safety and security.
Edit
this was posted after some now deleted comments about muslims. It no longer makes sense that I posted it without that context. Edit for clarity
eddiebaby - Member
DT78 - Member
My father just called, he's been told one of the victims was a women who he closely works with. 2 little girls and a husband left behind.Very sorry to hear this mate. Its things that personalise events like this (even if its "JUST" a bloke from a forum I visit) that hit home.
Especially in view of the number of point scoring posts between your's and mine. My condolences to your Dad's colleague, not that they mean a thing after an event like this.
Agreed. One of my wife's colleagues was the best friend of the lady killed in the Sydney "siege"..... sounds like a tenuous connection, but it made the whole thing feel much closer to home - I certainly view this sort of thing very differently now. I hope your dads ok DT78, it's heartbreaking.
I've done no such thing...
I know you haven't, and didn't mean to imply otherwise, you made relatively reasoned posts. Like I said, it was a gentle warning to keep it that way, time and a place and all that.
is 'on forum' the right place for a spat
It wasn't a spat but yes you're probably right, a PM would've been more appropriate here, sorry if I was insensitive.
TJ - thanks for posting; heard the Imam's interview - sensible and balanced comment.
By breakfast it will have been distorted beyond recognition by the bigots and uninformed.
It seems to me we have an individual with a vague 'plan' which could only deliver personal and individual hurt; it could deliver death and destruction which is appalling but had no capacity to have a serious and permanent impact on uk democratic structures.
Using vehicles as weapons will be limited by enhanced security and defensive hardware on the streets; then it will be another method of delivery for the misguided.
It's easy to say - i know - and hard to do but....perspective that we had a 'lone wolf' with no cohesive plan who got lucky (in his own tiny mind from a perverted perspective).
There is no evidence thank god - mine or anyone else's - that this is part of a co-ordinated plan as we saw in paris and brussels.
Then we have the 'coincidence' with brussels first anniversary.
It's certainly a cheap way of causing death and destruction - one willing/deranged individual, one vehicle, kitchen knives.
I have little doubt it will 'inspire' others - tonight, making vague plans, dreaming of virgins in heaven.
What i really hope is that government will reverse cuts in police and armed forces funding - and increase to a much higher level.
blah, blah, blah, but what are they actually doing about radicalism??? I've had a look and search on their website and can't find anything, nothing at all. In fact they are pretty much in denial it even exists.muslim council of britain »
We are shocked and saddened by the incident at Westminster. We condemn this attack and while it is still too early to speculate on the motives, our thoughts and prayers are for the victims and those affected. We pay tribute
What are you doing about radicalism? Why is it their job to do something about radicalism?
It isn't my religion northwind, it's their religion that these extremists are killing in the name of.
"In the name of" is not synonymous with "at the behest of."
I could plant bombs in the name of WH Smiths, would it be right to ask what the popular high street newsagents was doing about it?
Cougar, while you ask that question of WH Smith in store they will offer you some short dated chocolates at a reduced price.
Mitsumo you are talking bollocks. One, as yet, un-named indivdual with no declared or known links to any religion or terrorist group or footie club or anything.
The 4 F's - First Find the Fu**ing Facts; try it sometime - it will help you to think clearly.
.
"It isn't my religion northwind, it's their religion that these extremists are killing in the name of."
So if some nutter started killing in the name of Mountain Biking that would be your responsibility?
This murderer was killing to divide communities, your comments further that aim, just as this killer planned.
So if some nutter started killing in the name of Mountain Biking that would be your responsibility?
It would be my responsibility hunt down and destroy every copy of the mountain bike magazine with the passages calling to kill or convert non mountain bikers to mountain biking. While mountain biking was still based on a book with passages calling for killing non-mountain bikers I would hold part of the collective responsibility of the cult of mountain biking for deaths resulting from the doctrine.
If I didn't consider myself part of radical mountain biking I wouldn't groom in exactly the same way as my radical mountain bike leader.
And I'd simply give up mountain biking as I can live without it and nothing good comes of it.