I don't think you get a degree at Oxford just from learning by rote.
There are different types of intelligence. I think he's quite capable of understanding complex matters but he can't be bothered/doesn't care.
Well if it's important for you to cast Johnson as an idiot Nick, and it seems to be, then go for it.
So you think Johnson quoted Thatcher because he's an idiot?
How is the non-idiot leader of the Labour Party dealing with that?
I don’t think you get a degree at Oxford just from learning by rote.
I think he has a ordinary degree in classics doesn't he? it's pretty much the dictionary definition of learning by rote...If he'd gone for molecular-chemistry or astro-physics, your point may have been more useful.
Well if it’s important for you to cast Johnson as an idiot Nick,
well, you've clearly made it important for you to cast him as a towering intellect to somehow cope better with the idea that's he's PM.
you’ve clearly made it important for you to cast him as a towering intellect
I made a simple comment that Johnson isn't an idiot and you have interpreted that as me saying that he is a "towering intellect"?
Do you always see things in such simple black and white terms Nick?
Do you always see things in such simple black and white terms Nick?
Only to get a rise out of you Ernie when it's a slow Sunday and there's nothing on the telly.
when the question of the tub of lards intellect comes up it always worth quoting someone who knows him....
Boris Johnson, people always ask me the same question, they say, 'Is Boris a very very clever man pretending to be an idiot?' And I always say, 'No.'
Only to get a rise out of you Ernie
Ah I see, you thought I would be angry and upset if interpreted my comment in a ridiculous and extreme manner.
And yet strangely it appears to be you who is angry.......how dare I suggest that the former Eton King's Scholar isn't an idiot?!?!!
I know that it’s fashionable on here to dismiss Johnson as simply an idiot but he clearly isn’t one.
You missed the savant after the idiot!
He's bone idle though as many a commentator has pointed out.
Indeed. Disappear for weeks during a crisis, make an after dinner speech, go on holiday
Job jobbed for another month or so. It’s a doddle this prime minister lark
Why are so many lefties so keen to defend BloJo?
I must be too thick to understand.
Ah I see, you thought I would be angry and upset
Nope, I was just doing it for fun, I'm not angry, just bored on Sunday. I don't really take anything people say on here seriously enough to get angry about it, nor likewise do I expect folks to take what I say seriously either.
The thing with this whole ‘Boris is thick’ narrative (and the same with Corbyn before Boris) is that the supposed serious grownups who came before him didn’t actually do any better at solving the country’s problems did they?
I know some on here (including the dearly departed dannyh) like to pretend that we were all living in a cosy liberal utopia pre-2016 but the truth is that the major problems we have now were present back then too. Maybe it’s time to admit that these supposedly intellectually superior people are no more able to fix the world than we proles are?
I know that it’s fashionable on here to dismiss Johnson as simply an idiot but he clearly isn’t one.
I sorta agree with this, but would caveat that with I think he's an absolutely vile person. However he knows exactly exactly what he needs to say and do in order to get what he wants so on that respect hes very smart and far from an idiot.
The thing with this whole ‘Boris is thick’ narrative (and the same with Corbyn before Boris) is that the supposed serious grownups who came before him didn’t actually do any better at solving the country’s problems did they?
Oh, I think it’s a bit too early to be making judgement like that
You’re aware that this clown, while he’s off on his hols, has authorised fellow inexplicably-promoted dimwit Lord Frost to basically start a full on trade war with the EU, right?
All because of the Northern Ireland Protocol which they themselves negotiated and hailed as a triumph
By any benchmark, that’s pretty ****ing ‘special’
Even Brexiteers and Boris cheerleaders like yourself and Ernie must be prepared to admit that this might be quite detrimental to our countries economy, based purely on nationalist bullshit?
I’m struggling to think of another politician who’d embark on something so spectacularly stupid at this particular point in time
Why are so many lefties so keen to defend BloJo?
I must be too thick to understand
Don't be harsh on yourself squirrel. But perhaps you could reflect on comment that "so many lefties" defend Johnson?
Yes binners, Johnson's laziness is well-known, going back to the days of when he was London Mayor.
However being lazy isn't the same as being an idiot, and you would have to be an, well, idiot, to think that.
By any benchmark, that’s pretty ****ing ‘special’
Oh there's almost no pretence now that they know what they're doing, it's just papering over the cracks, dead-catting and playing the blame game.
Very few people ever truly wanted Brexit, very few in Government knew what to do once the vote had happened and ever since then the Conservative Party has been in the turmoil of argument with itself over what it meant. It's a massive school bullying contest which has unfortunately spiraled a bit out of control into the streets.
Problem is that the school bullies might have been OK in the playground but now they're out in the real world which they have no understanding of, no compassion for and no idea of what to do next. In the school playground, they might have been quite clever with a few Latin phrases and some witty turn of phrase but now their actual intelligence has been found woefully lacking. That article from IDS on the previous page for example - WTAF?!
Boris is the same and either he's too thick to see he's out of his depth or he knows it full well and is just laying the blame around a little bit. It's why thick people and "yes-men" always thrive under bad managers. They'll nod along and support the manager, even as the company goes bankrupt whereas a clever person would tell the manager that what they're doing is terrible.
Boris cheerleader? Get over yourself man. The point is that Boris won’t be beaten while his supposed ‘opponents’ persist with this outdated fantasy charicature. Your silly pantomime villain analysis will only result in one thing - more Boris.
However being lazy isn’t the same as being an idiot
It is when the end result is the same for the rest of us. Whether he’s leading us towards economic catastrophe through stupidity or laziness is pretty much a moot point
For what it’s worth I think he’s both lazy and stupid
By the time he’s done, it could take decades for the grown ups to sort out the mess he leaves in his wake
Making trading intentionally harder with your nearest neighbour is stupid enough, starting a full scale trade war with them is out and out idiocy
But perhaps you could reflect on comment that “so many lefties” defend Johnson?
I have and I'm still no further towards enlightenment.
The looking glass is well behind me though.
Why are so many lefties so keen to defend BloJo?
Who's defending him? I can't speak for anyone else but I'm simply challenging the flawed analysis that he's either a rightwing thatcherite idealogue and/or an idiot. He's clearly neither. He's said himself he's a 'brexity Michael Heseltine'. If we're to take him at his word (as nickc suggest on the previous page) then that means he's almost the very opposite of what binners et al say he is.
It may be comforting for the centrist labour establishment supporters on here to tell themselves that Boris is some evil rightwing ogre who will eventually be exposed and the voters will come flocking back to a sensible and 'credible' labour party, but that's not going to happen. Boris and his backers are way ahead, and they need to be given some respect if they're to be deposed.
For what it’s worth I think he’s both lazy and stupid
Well I always value your opinions binners. Perhaps then you could explain why Eton College felt it appropriate to give a scholarship to a lazy stupid Boris Johnson?
Was it because Eton College was worried that they might appear to be too elite if the general academic standard was too high?
Or are you suggesting that Johnson managed to fool them?
He’s said himself he’s a ‘brexity Michael Heseltine’.
https://twitter.com/JuneDey1/status/1447136756890017793?s=20
Or are you suggesting that Johnson managed to fool them?
Fooling people? The one ability, along with his shameless opportunism, that he seems to possess in abundance
Perhaps Michael Heselstine thinks that Johnson is lazy? He won't be the only one.
Fooling people? The one ability, along with his shameless opportunism, that he seems to possess in abundance
So you think Boris Johnson managed to fool Eton College into giving him a scholarship?
That's quite an achievement for someone who is both stupid and an idiot.
Or am I about to be told that all the academic staff at Eton are also idiots?
Did he have a scholarship? I thought he just did the usual paying to get in.
there are different sorts of intelligence and Johnson is lacking in them all - he really is not a clever chap at all.
He is PM because he is a useful idiot and frontman for the interests driving brexit. He is not there because of his ability.
This is turning into a real turd of a thread
He won’t be the only one.
Agreed. Lazy, untrustworthy, selfish, dangerous, and uncaring… but far from stupid.
It matters not that he was crammed to get a scholarship - its obvious he is really not that clever. He may be capable of retaining facts but memory is not intelligence. OK he is not properly dim but he is not a clever man either. He is dimwitted, overeducated and does not understand his own limitations
Ernie - I am really surprised at you being taken in by his act
"Boris Johnson, people always ask me the same question, they say, 'Is Boris a very very clever man pretending to be an idiot?' And I always say, 'No.'"
Ian Hislop
Ernie – I am really surprised at you being taken in by his act
In what way.......in that I don't think he is an idiot?
I have no idea how intelligent Johnson is, nor do I care, but what I am certain of is that he isn't an idiot.
You don't win a scholarship to Eton and end up Prime Minister if you are an idiot.
Perhaps someone with average intelligence could achieve that but I am confident that an idiot couldn't.
My understanding of an idiot is someone who is below average intelligence. Perhaps you have a different definition and for you an idiot is someone who you disagree with. In which case this could explain any confusion.
JOhnson is barely of average inteligence IMO. He is not PM on merit - he is PM because he is a useful idiot to the powers behind him
Johnson got his scholarship off the back of attending a £30k a year prep school
The scholarship only covered half the Eton fees, so the other £25k...
He is the perfect example of privelege & wealth over intelligence or capability
We're all through the looking glass if Ernie is now saying you get to Eton & becomr PM through ones own wit & not a metric ****ton of cash & entitlement
if Ernie is now saying ...
To be fair it doesn't really matter what l say, it will still be twisted to claim I'm saying things which I am obviously not saying.
From Nick suggesting that I see Johnson as "a towering intellect" to you suggesting that I don't understand how a privileged upbringing brings better education and life chances.
Edit :
The scholarship only covered half the Eton fees, so the other £25k…
I am intrigued to learn why Eton College decided to give a 50% discount to an idiot?
I think I would call Boris "book smart" hence the Latin and attempts at biography penning etc.
The intelligence is evidenced in the inability to place that knowledge into context or the ability to apply it in a productive way, crucially. Hence the use of dramatics and gags etc.
Yeah, that's how I see him I think.
I’m struggling to think of another politician who’d embark on something so spectacularly stupid at this particular point in time
The obvious flaw in your thinking is it depends on what that politicians priorities are. You seem to be assuming its the overall good of the country?
Having a nice nearby enemy to point people at is a time tested and successful (at least for a time) plan for any unscrupulous leader.
he is PM because he is a useful idiot to the powers behind him
No he’s a conscious collaborator and fully aware of his role in maintaining power for his supporters. Brexit is a long term project, and it was always obvious that once we left the EU the tories would have to do some very un-Tory things in the immediate aftermath. Covid amplified that and gave them cover, but don’t be under any illusion that Johnson doesn’t understand his role. He’s the friendly face of the American hedge funds and health industry who are planning 10-20 years ahead while the thatcherites want revolution now. Like Trump he only wants popularity, and has no problem doing whatever it takes to achieve that.
Johnson got his scholarship off the back of attending a £30k a year prep school
The scholarship only covered half the Eton fees, so the other £25k…
Well in his day, prep school fees would be less than £1,500 per annum and Eton would have been less than £2,000. School fee inflation makes house price inflation look positively benign. Eton scholars need to be able to apply knowledge, you can't get a scholarship by rote learning - there are no set texts. They are highly competitive and you need to be very bright to get one, even one of the lesser ones. The guy who got the top scholarship in Johnson's year was at my junior school and he was a superstar.
So Kwasi Kwarteng all over the news this morning talking about subsidies for industry to deal with energy crisis and maintaining the price cap to protect consumers. Thatcherite my arse!
Said it before the new game in politics is retention of power, hence the current socialist tory party approach.
Its closer to I'm a celebrity than government, Boris wanted the badge of office nothing more and his only political effort is in keeping his other half happy by his born again tree hugging other wise his shag schedule will get cancelled.
There is no grand plan with Boris other than his financial exit plan
Please don't over think the man.
There is no grand plan with Boris other than his financial exit plan
Exactly. He’s “not stupid” as in he can get exactly what he wants for himself. He can’t deliver for the UK though. He might be able to write in a way that engages many people about the problems ahead for us (many of his own making), and can deliver those words bounding with enthusiasm, but he has no idea whatsoever how to govern this country, and the mess he will leave behind is only now starting to become clear. He’ll bluster and distract through every self made blunder and crisis right up to, and past, the next election. That takes a smart mind. He’s smart enough to win and keep power. When he finally leaves, they money will start flowing in (to his pockets).
I completely agree that Johnson is driven by personal ambition, and his overinflated ego, not any sort of ideological commitment other his own self-aggrandisement.
It is not something which I find particularly shocking or concerning, unlike some people my expectations of Conservative Party leaders is extremely low.
What I do find truly shocking and concerning, however, is that the leader of the opposition Labour Party appears to driven by exactly the same goals - personal ambition and self-aggrandisement. I have no doubt whatsoever that Keir Starmer desperately wants to be Prime Minister, but only to satisfy his ego, there is no ideological commitment to anything other than himself.
I expect and demand that Labour Party leaders be utterly different to Tory Party leaders. And when they fall to be that's what I find truly tragic.
Exactly. He’s “not stupid” as in he can get exactly what he wants for himself. He can’t deliver for the UK though
He doesn’t need to and I doubt he really tries or cares, once he leaves office he’s back to writing and the big bucks as opposed to slumming it and he doesn’t have to live here.
It’s game show Britain and he’s street savvy to the proles, he understands the media and perception vs reality and knows how to play the game.
Once a bullingdon boy always a bullingdon boy.
What I do find truly shocking and concerning, however, is that the leader of the opposition Labour Party appears to driven by exactly the same goals – personal ambition and self-aggrandisement. I have no doubt whatsoever that Keir Starmer desperately wants to be Prime Minister, but only to satisfy his ego, there is no ideological commitment to anything other than himself.
Now I don't get that impression from Starmer - think he's desperate to get Labour in power and will needlessly sell his soul and their principles to do so, but not seeing him as a Johnson style megalomaniac.
