[Closed] Bob Crow dead

Didn't agree with a lot of what he stood for. However, far too young to go. May he rest in peace.

I didn't agree with his politics either, but that is not the point. [u]He[/u] believed in them. He didn't betray his principles for his own personal gain as so many in positions of authority do.

I would much rather have had a debate with him than 'like nailing jelly to a wall' Blair - at least I would have known what his opinion was!

Too often integrity is a virtue that is ignored in the squalid world that is politics.

I have seen his type of union tactics backfire and harm workers on more occaisions than it succeeds. Sorry for him personally and his family, but can't say I wish there were more people like him in public life as his tactics were corrosive and divisive.

At Covent Garden Tube station;

Why do people keep saying they didn't agree with his 'politics'? He wasn't a politician, he was a union leader, and unlike a lot of other union leaders who seem to think they are politicians, he always remembered that his purpose was to represent his members in matters relating to their pay and conditions at work. To say you don't agree with his politics is to say that you believe tube and rail workers should be paid less and have poorer conditions, which I find rather shocking.

^^^^^ +1

I have seen his type of union tactics backfire and harm workers on more occaisions than it succeeds.

Agreed - but it always depends on where you draw your lines. He was head of one union. So does this mean he has a responsibility solely his members (I think so), or does he have a wider responsibility for the trade union movement as a whole? Or the labour movement including the labour party? Or the country?

It all depends really - but that discussion is for another time (but probably not if STW 'deaths of politicians' threads are anything to go by).

but can't say I wish there were more people like him in public life as his tactics were corrosive and divisive.

Yeah… completely at odds with those benign and inclusive, justifiably highly paid managers and politicians who he used to constantly upset eh? Bless 'em. Maybe they can now get on with their mission to [s]privatise everything, drive down wage costs, and chip away at peoples working conditions, while awarding themselves massive pay rises[/s] make all our lives better, uninterrupted by Bob and his ilk 🙄

To say you don't agree with his politics is to say that you believe tube and rail workers should be paid less and have poorer conditions, which I find rather shocking.

Really? Have you ever heard of the Conservatives? They believe [b]we all[/b] should be paid much less and have much worse conditions....

Makes me think how great life would be if we ALL had someone like Bob Crow too look after us.

I have seen his type of union tactics backfire and harm workers on more occaisions than it succeeds.

I've never believed in the belligerent unionism he favoured, with the constant use of strike threats to try and force rather than negotiate, but it's sad for his friends and relatives to lose someone so young.

I know the bosses do tend to listen to polite requests 😕

He did what he had to do to get results....its just business apparently 😉

Not my cup of tea, but he believed in what he was doing, and wasn't just a popularist. Compared to someone like Len Mcluskey, who is all about power and politics, Bob Crow truly was a man of his people. RIP.

A true capitalist - I'm sure that's how he would like to be remembered. RIP

The Germans have industrial relations sorted. Bob Crows style, while effective in the short term for his members is exactly the type of union behaviour that damages industrial relations in the long term. Unless you believe that things were better in the 60's and 70's?

I've never believed in the belligerent unionism he favoured,

I used to think that, then I looked at what the "moderate" leaders of other unions have actually achieved for their members.

Didn't like him personally, but then i didn't know him. Sad for his family but it's not gonna change my day.

Funny how it was acceptable do practically dance on Tatchers grave, but you're not allowed be against a 'man of the people'.

Just for the record i also had no feelings towards it when Tatcher died either.

The Germans have industrial relations sorted. Bob Crows style, while effective in the short term for his members is exactly the type of union behaviour that damages industrial relations in the long term.

Heres a thought… maybe the German management aren't as rapacious, confrontational and greedy, and aren't trying to screw their workers at every turn, to further enrich themselves, and thus employing a more co-operative attitude to their workforce relations

Just a thought

dazh - Member
Why do people keep saying they didn't agree with his 'politics'?

Did he not say he wanted to "bring down Tony Blair" with one of his earlier strikes?

Blimey, as a couple of posts earlier mentioned, he was only on R4 yesterday afternoon (ordering treacle pudding in a westminster restaurant where so many political deals have been forged over the years). Did his job very well and his salary was a tiny tiny fraction of the total of increases in wages he negociated for his members and in that respect represents considerably better VFM than many other union leaders or indeed leaders of other organisatons... If I understood him right (I was on the bus and radio was a rather crackly) he used a similar argument of 'quantifying what you are responsible for improving' to justify why he was in favour of MP's getting paid more.

[edit] aracer- despite the above, he also described himself in the same piece yesterday as 'socialist-communist'.

with the constant use of strike threats to try and force rather than negotiate

binners said it better than I could

Didn't like him personally, but then i didn't know him

Um how does that work?

maybe the German management aren't as rapacious, confrontational and greedy

...as our unionists?

Funny how it was acceptable do practically dance on Tatchers grave, but you're not allowed be against a 'man of the people'.

So are all the people in this thread who have said they didn't like him going to get locked up? 🙄

considering he could bring London to a grinding halt, and affect many businesses with strike action, I would say he was at a distinct advantage in "doing his job well".

Being absolutely honest, I wasn't a fan of him when he was alive, so I'm not going to pretend to pay him any respect because it would be a false gesture.

The mans actions affected my life significantly in the last strike, and I'm not sorry he's gone.

...as our unionists?

In case you hadn't noticed, most British workers aren't unionised.

Another here who didn't particular like him but that's irrelevant at a time like this. 52 is no age. Thoughts are with his family and friends.

solman - Member
The mans actions affected my life significantly in the last strike

making alternative travel arrangements and losing time?

The mans actions affected my life significantly in the last strike, and I'm not sorry he's gone.

Wow. So you were mildly inconvenienced a few times presumably? Are you actually glad he's dead or just not sorry?

Amazing. Pat yourself on the back.

So are all the people in this thread who have said they didn't like him going to get locked up?

Sorry, you've lost me, i must have missed the bit where all the thatcher haters got locked up 😕

The mans actions affected my life significantly in the last strike

So, basically, you've absolutely no concern whatsoever about the pay rates or working conditions of anyone, as long as it doesn't end up inconveniencing you?

Classy! Shall we all try and guess who you vote for? Erm……...

52 is no age for anyone to pass and I"m sorry for that and his family, personally I'm ambivalent as to his passing I wouldn't be hypocritical enough to mourn the loss of the type of Trades Union Leader that inflicts misery on others for his own ends.

Having said that I fear more jobs will pass with him and the driverless trains are one step nearer.

...as our unionists?

In Germany union membership is pretty standard and encouraged, on top of that they have work councils (separate from unions) to encourage participation of the workforce in decision making processes. How many UK businesses go to such lengths to encourage worker participation?

Having worked in both countries, it is defiantly management attitudes that are different, although it is a bit strange on a one to one level German management is very much stuck in some sort of outmoded class system, but at a group level there is far greater co-operation.

There are probably only a few % of the UK population that would not have benefited from having Bob Crow representing their interests, it seems that there are a hell of a lot more who have been brainwashed into not sticking together to be stronger as a group.

I wouldn't be hypocritical enough to mourn the loss of the type of Trades Union Leader that inflicts misery on others for his own ends.

Is "misery" now defined as "a bit longer to get to work this morning"?

I wouldn't be hypocritical enough to mourn the loss of the type of Trades Union Leader that inflicts misery on others for his own ends.

Christ on a bendybus! He's not a war criminal FFS. Get yourself a sense of perspective. People had to make alternative travel arrangements for a couple of days. well boo hoo for them, mired as they are in their 'misery' 🙄

I wouldn't be hypocritical enough to mourn the loss of the type of Trades Union Leader that inflicts misery on others for his own ends.

I'm not sure he did all that for his own ends, if he was doing his job then he did it for RMT members, surely? He didn't really get paid all that much, (iirc 140k) considering the size of the union and the amount its members get paid because of his work.

Set aside that the organisation he headed being a union for a moment. Where else would a chief executive of such a large company/body/organisation get paid so little for changing so much for its members/employees/shareholders?

Get yourself a sense of perspective. People had to make alternative travel arrangements for a couple of days. well boo hoo for them

wow. is english a foreign language on here? since when does using the word "significant" mean mild inconvenience?

significant here means, life changing. Huge impact. Not being able to be there for someone in time.

ransos - Member

In case you hadn't noticed, most British workers aren't unionised.

Well aware of that, unaware of your point.

since when does using the word "significant" mean mild inconvenience?

I'm guessing its when you're under the impression that you should just stand there, while the whole ****ing world revolves around you 😆

aye, didn't agree with him, but it's good we have a country where there can be a strong voice against the government/policy that gets listened to - we might not like the outcome e.g. strikes etc, but society needs people like that

His dog was called Castro 😆

Sorry, you've lost me, i must have missed the bit where all the thatcher haters got locked up

I was questioning your use of the term 'not allowed'. It's a classic piece of right wing bollocks.

He's not a war criminal FFS.

Hang on he did support Millwall FC.

Well aware of that, unaware of your point.

The point is that where union membership is encouraged (Germany) we have better industrial relations, better terms and conditions, and better productivity.