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I have a BMW 330e, their latest hybrid vehicle.
They sell the car on the basis it uses Sat Nav to intelligently tell the car when to use electric/save electric. However I think they are selling something not fit for purpose.
So from new I have been programming the Nav starting from Home to School to Work to Home (3 destinations). It has become apparent that the Nav only looks at the first destination and thinks it can use all the battery as I only need to go 5 miles. When I get to the school it then sees the destination as work, so uses as much electricity as possible to get there. So by the time I get to work only 20% battery is left. When I leave work for home it then starts using the car to charge the battery.
Anyhow when I emailed BMW about it they said that that is correct functionality and rather than entering destinations, I should enter way points for school and work, and then upload to the car using google maps.
I duly tried this, but the is no functionality to do this in the car. I emailed BMW back, and they said, sorry our fault the Navigation system you have in your vehicle can not upload routes via the web, no offer of a solution, just tuff that's it. Just only there professional Nav system (more expensive) had this functionality.
So I purchased a car based on using the Nav System to make best use of battery, based on their marketing information and systems literature and sales staff, and now I have a car that will not do what they said it would.
How would you pursue something like this, or is it OK for a product that costs £40k to not do what they say it can do?
Grumble grumble.
Can't you do that in the car? I.e. Enter the final destination and add intermediate points on the journey. I'm 99% sure that my nav system can do this without using the phone. That said I'm not sure what difference it will make as it sounds like the car is making pretty much full use of the battery. Chances are you'll use the same amount of fuel no matter what you do.
Bmw fleecing customers !! What's the chances !!
Set the destination for work and then remember how to get to the school?
Did you consider an Audi?
Pro Nav can be retrofitted into a car without it - you could try to push for an upgrade.
You spent £40k to save money? well done you!!
More helpfully:
It does't make much difference where your car "uses" the battery.
You start and end at home (round trip) as long as the battery is flat when you get home, you've done the best gasoline mpg you can do.
Only one thing for it. Torch the dealership
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Interesting, as I have my eye on one of these for next car and I'd want the leccy being used for a specific part of my commute.
It does't make much difference where your car "uses" the battery.
You start and end at home (round trip) as long as the battery is flat when you get home, you've done the best gasoline mpg you can do.
Yes and no... If the battery had any juice in when he gets home then I'd agree, but... Ideally the car would be planning ahead to make use of the battery in urban environments and areas of stop/start traffic, and only engaging the engine in more open and flowing traffic conditions where actually the internal combustion engine is quite and efficient way of producing forward motion...
So...
Pro Nav can be retrofitted into a car without it - you could try to push for an upgrade.
Would be my next port of call...
So you have to tap in your destination everytime you get in? What's battery usage like if you just get in and drive? You need some data here to back up your case.
If it's even a bit 'smart' I'd expect it to deal with all this without intervention (perhaps after a few weeks 'learning' process)
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"[i]...make use of the battery in urban environments and areas of stop/start traffic, and only engaging the engine in more open and flowing traffic conditions...[/i]"
I thought this was largely the point of hybrids, doesn't it do all that anyway ?
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You spent £40k to save money? well done you!!
My MD bought himself a brand new Fiat Panda to save fuel - his other cars are a big Merc, 3 series BMW and a Porsche 911.
He drives the Panda the most!
The irony of spending £40k to save fuel on a 5 mile journey
Become a teacher and then work and school are the same 🙂
Surely before you bought the car you checked the spec to ensure it did what you wanted it to. Or is their (not there) literature regarding the specific model incorrect.
Enter the final destination and add intermediate points on the journey. I'm 99% sure that my nav system can do this without using the phone.
This is in essence what I had been doing. Intermediate points are however treated as destinations according to BMW.
You start and end at home (round trip) as long as the battery is flat when you get home, you've done the best gasoline mpg you can do.
No you haven't. Electric is more efficient in town driving, so it should save the battery for then. Unfortunately the battery is drained just after leaving work to return home, at which point it then uses the combustion engine to recharge the battery, and you can not stop it doing that. MPG drops to about 20mpg at best.
So you have to tap in your destination everytime you get in? What's battery usage like if you just get in and drive? You need some data here to back up your case.
If you do the same commute daily, you can leave it programmed in the Nav System. Unfortunately I have no way of getting that data unless BMW lend me a similar spec 330e with Pro Navigation.
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Surely before you bought the car you checked the spec to ensure it did what you wanted it to. Or is their (not there) literature regarding the specific model incorrect.
At the time the literature and the sales staff went along the lines of use the Sat Nav to increase the efficiency of the car by programming in the destination.
The 330e comes with an phone app which allows you to send a single destination to the car. Just not one with waypoints. When I first raised this query with BMW they said to use their online mapping software BMW Routes.
No where on the current sales literature does it say the you need to purchase Pro Nav to get functionality, or does it talk about 330e navigation possibilities differences. It just says the pro model allows you to see up to date traffic problems and re-route, other differences are about being able to watch TV etc. In fact BMW's Product Marketing said they will update staff so they are now aware that the Business Nav doesn't have this functionality.
If you do the same commute daily, you can leave it programmed in the Nav System. Unfortunately I have no way of getting that data unless BMW lend me a similar spec 330e with Pro Navigation.
Of course you do, you're not trying to prove what it should do, that you can't do without the Pro Navigation, but don't program the nav at all, literally just drive the car. It presumably then makes a decision on how to distribute power based on some other pre-determined conditions. How different is that?
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How different is that?
In theory it should have improved slightly, as the car is no longer trying to use all the battery for the first 6 or 15 miles etc.
However, hybrids are very very sensitive to change in temp. Over the weekend the temp was 10deg + and the expected range was 21 miles on battery. This morning it was 0deg and when I got in the car the expected range was 17 miles.
Doesn't this sound like a First World Problem?
Binners - loving the pictures 😀
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😀
Surely it doesn't matter provided you can still left foot brake? Which must be enormously important on your drive to school.
Doesn't this sound like a First World Problem?
It does a bit, but is about being sold something that doesn't do what they said it would.
Surely it doesn't matter provided you can still left foot brake? Which must be enormously important on your drive to school.
No the left foot braking is only when I have dropped Jnr FD at school. Bonus points though for remembering.
What would happen if you input any destination 2x your commute? Would the system average out the battery usage over the entire distance?
What would happen if you input any destination 2x your commute? Would the system average out the battery usage over the entire distance?
I put this point to BMW, and they said that wouldn't be the right thing to do.
And I agree with them too. I live in a hilly area and travel to a flat area, and the roads are different too.
Get back on BMW's case, or test your own Nav settings versus battery efficiency, you need to confirm battery saving via Sat Nav is only available in Pro Nav. If this point isn't clear then the Dealership can give you the run about forever.
EITHER Business Nav DOES help efficiency, with the caveat that it's limited to 1 destination, or you're using it wrong (or 20% battery is the best it can manage) - case closed.
OR Business Nav DOES NOT help with efficiency whatsoever, and Sales person said some things to you which were not factually correct (gasp!) - here at least you have something to contest.
That's how I see it anyway! hth
I'm not sure the phrase "first world problem" does justice to the anguish this must be causing
You lost all credibility when you used "functionality"
In addition I would argue that the area where battery usage is most useful is in an urban environment, where journies tend to be multi stop so a system that doesn't allow you to place waypoints or multiple stops is not fit for purpose as it is a fair assumption that the journey would consist of multiple stops.
Become a teacher and then work and school are the same
Become a teacher and home school the kids. Sell the car.
Eat the kids.
Sorted.
DrP
this is the dullest car thread ever
Drive to school and work using 80% of battery, plug it in, drive home later using another 80% of battery that work paid for, result.
OP it's not a specification issue. It's possibly a marketing / trades description issue although tbh it's more you overestimating the units functionality and/or not using it correctly (waypoint vs destination)
do you have an option to hold the battery charge and manually switch to the combustion engine?
Drive to school and work using 80% of battery, plug it in, drive home later using another 80% of battery that work paid for, result.
Would be great if I had any where at work to plug it in....
do you have an option to hold the battery charge and manually switch to the combustion engine?
No, although people are finding a work around. You can take the car out of auto mode manually change gear. This starts the engine, but it is a faff.
It's possibly a marketing / trades description issue although tbh it's more you overestimating the units functionality and/or not using it correctly
I could see that could be the case, as you are right to some extent I may have made the jump for using Sat Nav to do a route. However this was reinforced by sales staff, and even BMW Product Marketing team thought it could do it last week....until I pointed out it couldn't...hence why they are now updating all staff.
You come on to STW to slate a BMW and no one has said it yet??????
Should have bought a t5/Skoda Octavia.
Was this with or without the optional indicator pack?
Was this with or without the optional indicator pack?
Well done you win a prize 🙄 but it only took 3 hours...