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Such phanies the 4 rescued wearing trainers, no maps, ice picks and no commonsense. A bit like the surfer getting battered by the waves over the weekend, I'm guessing he or she survived
They're very lucky phanies. Have witnessed this first hand how conditions in the valley are pleasant but the top of the mountain is full on winter, and that's without a storm blowing through.
It's just ignorance. It's the cause of everything wrong in the world today, Brexit, racism ...
Phoolish phuds.
I do find this a bit conflicting, on one hand I don't think there should be a ban on anyone heading out into the hills at any time, a more experienced group probably wouldn't head out in those conditions anyway, but then there are phanies like this who do. Dunno the answer...
Well done to the crews though, they truly are heroes without capes.
Some people made a silly and potentially fatal mistake. Can we just accept that and not degenerate into slagging them off?
"Three of the guys were in trainers! They were about 150 metres down into Coire Eoghainn on steep ice and if they had slipped or gone down any further consequences could have far more serious."
Possibly from the same gene pool as the Hastings surfer.
Can we just accept that
Not really. In days gone by Darwinism would have sorted this out. They are just making the population worse.
Have they not seen Idiocracy?
Can we just accept that
No because they are putting others lives at risk to rescue their own when the situation was completely avoidable with even a little bit of thought. Either don't do it or go prepared.
Can we just accept that and not degenerate into slagging them off?
But what they did was incredibly dangerous - it would be dangerous enough going up dressed like that on a sunny day in spring, but during one of the biggest storms we've had in recent years was pure idiocy and they deserve all the slagging off they get.
What the **** is an ice pick?
You've been reading too much Daily Mail. 😉
Not really.
I feared as much. The lure of low hanging fruit for a slagging is more than many people can resist. I guess it makes people feel better about themselves.
In days gone by Darwinism would have sorted this out.
Natural selection you mean.
You could go all Swiss and make it law that everyone has appropriate personal insurance.
Then phannyish behaviour/decisions are not inconveniencing anyone, and creates a new sustainable business out of what is currently a charitable affair staffed by total hero's.
You'd also need to remove any humanity from your soul, but it seems to work for the Naz... sorry.. Swiss.
No because they are putting others lives at risk to rescue their own when the situation
And yet the people who 'risk their lives' to rescue them are overwhelmingly non-judgemental of the individuals. They might be critical of their decisions to help educate others but they certainly don't indulge in personal attacks on them. It's an important distinction I think.
The Ben is known for it. In June 1997 Mrs Gti and I climbed it via Coire Leis on our honeymoon and on the top was a woman in a summer frock, carrying a shopping bag, slipping around the snowfield in sandals. Coming back down we caught up with a woman in high-heeded sandals, crying, teetering down, her feet red and bleeding. The boyfriend was standing by impatiently saying "Whasamatter? Don't you like the shoes?" He got a proper mouthful in return so we hurried on down.
I'm a bit confused by all this- I accept that people make mistakes with stuff like this on a nice day, even in winter, and to a large degree rescue is there for this reasons- most folk in trouble have made a mistake of some sort or other, and it's, imo, not necessary to judge.
But, given the weather of the last couple of days, and the warnings given out, I genuinely can't understand how people so ill-equipped could have ventured out. In my books, it's negligence, not a mistake.
I did though have the half thought that they could have been runners, but surely not...
The MRT are certainly none too pleased with this group.
And yet the people who ‘risk their lives’ to rescue them are overwhelmingly non-judgemental of the individuals.
Well, in their public statements, anyway. They don't want to discourage people who have made stupid and dangerous mistakes from calling them out.
Can't even begin to contemplate how awful conditions up there were.
if they were wearing arcteryx then it would have all been fine
It happens all the time in the summer with people thinking it is a nice walk opposed to climbing a mountain and setting of without any food or water as well as unsuitable clothing and footwear.
a woman in a summer frock, carrying a shopping bag, slipping around the snowfield in sandals
Yeah, the last time I walked it (in late spring) it was a lovely day at the campsite, shorts and tees weather. We set off (fully prepared) and passed several groups of people clearly not prepared (sandals, trainers, light and/or inappropriate clothing etc). We reached the summit and stopped to eat lunch - it was only a few minutes before the wind chill had us zipping up and quickly moving off again. I have no idea how any of the people we passed got on but I would expect them to have not had pleasurable experiences.
i am with spin. Those rescued are inexperienced, made (really) poor decisions and should have excercised some commmon sense.
However to personally slag them off in public actually takes us down a dangerous route. Your 'black route with tasty jumps' is the Daily Wail's perfect 'irresponsible bikers injure themselves on extreme stunts in wilderness location'. Where do you draw the line on risk vs irresponsibility?
I am sure that the resue team will acted professionally and yet also had an opportunity with the police locally to make it clear to the rescued party that they could be charged with wasting police time and had risked lives.
Where do you draw the line on risk vs irresponsibility?
Err, the UK's highest mountain on the stormiest day of the year in trainers?
And yet the people who ‘risk their lives’ to rescue them are overwhelmingly non-judgemental of the individuals.
Admittedly I know only 3 active MRT members, but each of those considers people that do this to be utter ****wits.
If they’re being polite they refer to them as “statistics”
No ice picks? You'll be telling me they forgot the lemons next. How are you supposed to have a decent G&T on top of a mountain if you're not properly prepared? Disgraceful.
Err, the UK’s highest mountain on the stormiest day of the year in trainers?
What about a merely breezy day?
What about last weeks snow that is still lying?
What if the 'trainers' are my Salomon AlpX (Still bright yellow and trainers to look at)
What if they were aming for a lull in the wind, just as my family and I did on a very windy day in December?
Check this whit out - should we have been there?
What about the 45mph wind that this picture was taken in, pre-dawn, easily -15 windchill?
Judgements and decisions in the hills are not clear black and white I am afraid.
Valley and mountain conditions can be drastically different - I've been walking around Aviemore in a t-shirt then driven up to the Coire Cas car park and been unable to get out of the car due to the wind and driven snow. Goodness knows what it was like on the plateau that day.
Another day we turned up at the car park and promptly thought "we ain't going out in this!" and that was with full mountaineering kit. From memory it was the day the Ptarmigan burnt down in the 1980s. We ended up going for a low level walk.
Typing this whilst looking out of the window at a whiteout of a hailstorm!
And yet the people who ‘risk their lives’ to rescue them are overwhelmingly non-judgemental of the individuals.
Well, in their public statements, anyway. They don’t want to discourage people who have made stupid and dangerous mistakes from calling them out.
have a read of cairngorm john ..... the times they have made statements to the effect of idiot .... the backlash has been tremendous.
they have taken the stance of non advisory situation recovery specialists not suppliers of mandatory/minimum kit requirements.
They do how ever between their various members put on significant numbers of talks and training through out the uk.
There is a big difference between those with the skills knowledge and equipment to be out in the hills who make mistakes and those without those three things.
Personally Matt I wouldn't have been up there in those conditions. But thats no criticism of you
Your ‘black route with tasty jumps’ is the Daily Wail’s perfect ‘irresponsible bikers injure themselves on extreme stunts in wilderness location’. Where do you draw the line on risk vs irresponsibility?
If my mum decided to have a go down one of the inners black runs on her Pendleton hybrid without wearing a helmet, we'd all be equally judgemental when she inevitably broke herself.
If you want to do potentially dangerous stuff fair enough, but prepare accordingly and understand your limits. It won't always protect you but it minimises risk. Those that don't deserve ridicule imo.
to personally slag them off in public actually takes us down a dangerous route.
Not really. The numbers of Lakeland wanderers who need rescuing because 'it's gone dark' is staggering.
And it goes dark every day, so you wouldn't think it would be a surprise.
They said the group who were in blizzard conditions had "no ice axes, no crampons and as far as we are aware no maps". Three of them were wearing trainers.
I'm with the lynch mob on this occasion
There is a big difference between those with the skills knowledge and equipment to be out in the hills who make mistakes and those without those three things.
Said better than I would have managed to put it.
There is a big difference between those with the skills knowledge and equipment to be out in the hills who make mistakes and those without those three things.
arguably without the skills and knowledge - how do you know when the weathers gone too bad.
experience is the thing you gain just after you needed it most .
this is not a defence of them , merely an observation.
If my mum decided to have a go down one of the inners black runs on her Pendleton hybrid without wearing a helmet, we’d all be equally judgemental when she inevitably broke herself.
...Yeah, but I'd still think she was a bit awesome though.
arguably without the skills and knowledge – how do you know when the weathers gone too bad.
Under normal circumstances I might agree, but not on this occasion, unless Lochaber has just experienced completely different weather to the rest of the country.
Very true Trail Rat.
The real problem with diddies like this is that they do not have enough knowledge to as the right questions let alone sus out the answers
oh i totally agree that the guys were daft and wreckless
but my point being that marginal can turn into lethal within minutes.
Knowing when to make that call is a skill.
I’m with the lynch mob on this occasion
What purpose do you think personal attacks on these individuals serves?
how do you know when the weathers gone too bad.
When the news has been awash with warnings about a huge storm about to hit the entire country for the last week?
I think when you have a group of mates out, not wanting/daring to be the one to make the call might often be the issue. peer pressure or whatever
I have been up on the high tops in conditions many would think of as absurd and had a fine day - local weather varies tremendously.
If everytime there was a weather warning we all stayed off the hills we would miss many great days
For those wanting to slag these individuals off this might be worth a read:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error
you mean the storm that never came for large parts of the country. spent the whole weekend outside without feeling the danger of the "storm"
what you have witnessed there is london centric news and that scaremongering of constantly naming a bit of wind normalises the news and makes actual storms be ignored.
remember if these people have not been up a mountain before they wont realise that conditions are different up top as at the bottom.
remember if these people have not been up a mountain before they wont realise that conditions are different up top as at the bottom.
This.
I've spent 20 years introducing yoof to the delights of adventure in the outdoors. Until you actually experience something, everything is just edited and stabilised GoPro footage of the gnar under blue skies from the comfort of your heated lounge and sofa.
Yes these folk were stupid to go. Yes they made really daft decisions, days or weeks before they got to that hill as well as on the hill.
Now if they are out again next week, then I'm happy to pick up a pitchfork.