[Closed] BBC - Questiontime

Clever strategy to leave the Stephen Gately/Jan Moir question 'til last because that's where NG looked the most exposed as he floundered unprepared into the shallow waters of his hatred.

Bonnie Greer was excellent, as was "Tory Lass" at times in repudiating NG's evasions and distortions (she'll still not get my vote though)

Me too

Did Diane Abbott more or less say that Londoners would get everybody ganging up on Nick the Dick, but people outside London might sympathise with him?

Guido - the term 'celt' was never used by Caesar, his generals or the historian Tacitus - in fac the only repeated term in their writing was 'britonculli' which roughly translates as 'horrible littl britons'!

A man named Edward Llyudd first used the term in the modern era in the mid C18th. As you said, it is a greek insult similar to the Roman 'barbarian'. Llyudd found it in classical writings and took it out of context to mean the peoples of northern Europe. It was only meant to denigrate the people who lived inland from the Ionian Sea by the Greek dwellers of the City-States.

We continue to use the term because we simply do not know who they considered themselves to be or what they called each other. Even the tribal names we have are Roman bastardisations of names.

OMG = 100+ posts on apolitical subject and no inane pontificating by ernie!!!! 😯

How on earth could anyone have thought there was a problem with allowing Griffin on QT?

Absolutely the right thing to do. Let the guy show himself for what he is.

It was slightly "let's gang up on the smelly spotty kid" which offended my sense of fair play, but the guy did so little (read: f*ck all) to redeem himself it was inevitable.

A victory for freedom of speech.

Last wine-fuelled post from me, I'm off to bed.

Did Diane Abbott more or less say that Londoners would get everybody ganging up on Nick the Dick, but people outside London might sympathise with him?

Nail on head - BBC making the same old assumption that London represents the whole of the UK - doh!

muddydwarf - Member
The last Ice Age in Europe ended circa 10'000yrs ago

have you appropriated all the apostrophes mislaid by the Ebay bike mechanic earlier in the week ??

"Nail on head - BBC making the same old assumption that London represents the whole of the UK - doh!"

As the broadsheets do........

Muddy
i wondered if you would pick up on the ice age thing. 😆
I doubt there would have been pockets of people tho.

There was an excavation of a Neolithic burial in Cornwall (IIRC) and DNA was extracted somehow and was found to have a reletive in a village about 6 miles away. Something like 6,000 years diffrence!

Going OT here so: Down with Griffin. Vote Guido

Well he's certainly no Jean-Marie Le Pen 😯

I couldn't believe how bad he was. OK unlike other guests he's got little or no experience in front of cameras, but I expected him to be a little more slick - he was absolutely ****ing useless. He's got a lovely smile though

I couldn't figure out his claim that the indigenous British people are the ones who were here 17,000 ago. Did he really say 17,000 ago ? Surely that excludes the Anglo-Saxons ? I bet they won't be very pleased 😐

Bit disapointed with it as a debate. Was expecting Griffin to be more polished but just seemed to be flustered all the time maybe 'cos he spent most of the time on the back foot. Thought it was more of a pub style debate with it all getting very heated. Did expose most of his premises as bogus though - like KKK video, holocaust, indigineous etc.

Immigration was the highlight for me. Personally I think this country has lost the plot around immigration for a number of years - and no, I don't agree with the BNP view of what to do about it. Jack Straw squirming like a true politician when put on the spot and not answering questions. This summed up the difference between the two. Straw talked and said nothing so you couldn't really take him to task over it. Griffin under pressure blurts out their policies and ideas which are then ridiculed for what they are.

100+ posts on apolitical subject and no inane pontificating by ernie

I had already done some pontificating earlier....pay attention.

You can't keep a good man down - eh ernie? 🙂

I had already done some pontificating earlier....pay attention.

do we really have a problem with immigration?
give me an example

i cant see one myself, we have a problem with innequality and deprivation
as alan davies said people assume they are owed a life of luxury based on credit ratings
those that dont have that fall into the same old nazi trap of point at the foreigners and blame them because they dont have what they think are owed: the lifestyle of becks, jordan or an xfactor winner [edit]

so the bnp is rascist?

jeeeesus this country is full of slow people.

too right kimbers its the whites(i'm white)that need to sort themselves out and get off their lazy arses!

Ah I must have had my dullness filter set to on.

Well if you're going to be rude ....... I might just not share my pontifications with you. Nice to know that I was missed though

do we really have a problem with immigration?

Yes we do imo. Sadly it's an issue which no political party is prepared to tackle without a racist dimension to it 😐

but what is the problem, explain it to me i live in a niceish part of west london and work in kensington

the only immigrants i encounter are hardworking likeable people who seem quite happy to put as much in as they get from this country

Simon - yes, i got a whole bagful!

Guido - in the book there is the case of a male schoolteacher who's family have lived in the Cheddar area for as long as they can remember.
When they did the mitrochondrial DNA test on the preserved corpse found in one of the caves and then tested the local population he was found to be a direct matrilineal descendant of the corpse - over 9'000yrs later!

Vote Guido - then we can burn him in two weeks! 😉

do we really have a problem with immigration?

EDIT - that sounds like I would suggest putting controls around the others which wasn't the case!!!!

The problem is that everyone's "having a go" at him yet to listen to what he's saying I fear much of it will still appeal to a lot of people

Can't help feeling that this little excursion onto QT by the BNP has further legitimised it in the eyes of it's members.

in certain skill areas - yes.

i'm the same there's only polish where i live and they all seem to be hard working,they don't cause trouble and mix quite well.in fact i respect them for it as it must be hard to have to leave your homeland for economic reasons

[i]IMO the population of the country is higher than we can realistically support long t[/i]

really?
most of this country is uninhabited, we have plenty of food we generate vast amounts of wealth- it just needs to be redistributed better
unemployment is low

the only immigrants i encounter are hardworking likeable people who seem quite happy to put as much in as they get from this country

I was close Muddy! Not bad 😀

Girlfrend is working on a Neolithic burial at the moment where the skelie is covered in cut marks. It seems they could have de fleshed him before burial.
And they say knife crime is a new thing.

Vote Guido.

Immigration - my main gripe is the tosh that the right wing press say about it. "soft touch britain?" and all that.

We need the immigrants to do the jobs because of our aging poulation and lack of skills in certain areas - without immigration healthcare would collapse due to shortage of staff.

Very hard to get a debate about it without it getting heated and racist however.

but what is the problem, explain it to me.....

Well it's not exactly a small subject which can be simply piggybacked into another thread ........ but let's just say that New Labour's 'open-door policy' of allowing an uncontrolled numbers of East Europeans to flood into Britain was probably not a very good idea.

Also if the celts 'arrived' who was here before..?

The beaker people.

Guido - couple of female friends are archeologists. seems like a really interesting career, wish i'd gone to uni now!

Some of the ancient remains are fascinating, like the Red Lady of Paviland,(not female i know) why the red dye i wonder?

We need the immigrants to do the jobs because of our aging poulation and lack of skills in certain areas - without immigration healthcare would collapse due to shortage of staff.

Spot on.

Well it's not exactly a small subject which can be simply piggybacked into another thread ........ but let's just say that New Labour's 'open-door policy' of allowing an uncontrolled numbers of East Europeans to flood into Britain was probably not a very good idea.

Immigrants are required to do all the jobs the incumbent population don't want to. This happens the world over, but the one of the answers as to why some of the population already here doesn't want to do the those jobs is down to wages. Business loves immigration, especially if they work for less than those already here.

Beaker people/Halstadt culture, La Terne (sp?)
Maybe waves of settlers, maybe a cultural 'wave'?

From what little i've read opinion now seems to sit with the idea that the Beaker culture came with a relatively few incomers and spread to the native population, only really conjecture though.

Griffin's ideology regarding who the English are is so far off base it's hilarious. No doubt his website will tell us how the heroic English resisted the Roman invaders under Boudicca....

Ernie - not sure the Government had a lot of option - most of them have been great and many will go home again after saving some money or getting disillusioned - many have already.

some are an utter pain tho.

I do wonder how Poland is coping with the loss of so many of it young workforce. I believe its only a temporary issue that one tho

Cuckoo- bit of a large gap between the beakers and the 'Celts' 😀
The point is they were the same people. They just had diffrent ways of producing culture (pottery, house styles etc) Sometime the influence to change was external sometimes internal.
Now the man Nick Griffin seems to concentrate on the Anglo saxons - but if we removed all non anglo saxons there would be about four people left. I suspect Boris may be one of them.

Muddy- Trust me as a job it sucks and you lose interest. Imagine wanting to fix your bike and ride after working in a bike shop all day?

Vote Guido

I still would like to know the BNP position on the Normans. They never mention them do they?

Er, i'm about to start training as a cycle instructor so i hope it doesn't suck that bad! 😆

Griffin is an idiot but will his appearance really have hurt him tonight?

I'v already read posts on another forum saying how well he did considering he was 'ganged up on'.
Rather ironic when you think of how his party members attempt to change peoples political ideas...

Normans - what did they ever do for us?

Apart from the legal system etc.....

Immigrants are required to do all the jobs the incumbent population don't want to.

That wasn't the thinking behind New Labour's open door policy. For a start, if immigrants are allowed in "to do all the jobs the incumbent population don't want to" why would you not want to control the numbers ? Saying that 50,000 or 1 million can come in, suggests that you are not really bothered about whether there are jobs for them.

And why can't British youngsters be trained for jobs which skilled foreign workers are now doing filling ? Youth unemployment is at about 1 million......why would British employers bother training kids when they can simply employ skilled foreign workers. And please don't say that British kids don't want to work.

And I could go on....... but the truth is that New Labour instigated it's open door policy because they wanted keep wages down and they decided to cynically exploit poor foreign workers who were desperate for work.

given were on page 5 i realise what i write is wasted.

NG got everyone else to concentrate on skin colour while he addressed the wants/needs of uk voters irrespective of colour.(sharia law, war, immimgration, soft mediacentric politics)

then very much anti homosexual tory muslim gets away without comment?!

NG is one of the few QT panellists ive ever seen who is not afraid to say what he thinks, regardless of who that offends - that will attract followers

the bnp plant, the stupid muslim asking about what the head of the christian sect thought(deport him somewhere now please), the one claiming all immigrants are supremely qualified (check my grans care home and all the obvioulsy dodgy nurse certificates) and the lesbian who thought she was disagreeing with NG, but wasnt........

i want my 60mins back.

but to reply to TJ when i started watching.... dont get bogged down in history, it may serve as a lesson but if you spend too long looking at it you miss what is really happening.

CaptainFlashheart - Member

Coyote - Member
Who really gives a f?

I do. Millions of right minded people do. The vast, overwhelming majority of this country do.

I give a f that such an odious individual and such an odious political organisation has gained even the tiniest foothold of political power. I give a f*** that we find every opportunity to decry everything that they say and to stop them having the slightest chance of gaining any more political influence.

This must be done by peaceful, deomcratic means. It must not be violent, it must be reasoned and measured, but it must be done.

Posted 2 hours ago

Flashheart - I've just received an email from RB. It says :

[i]"I'd like you to tell Capn' Flashfart that I agree with him 100% on this.

100%. And that I'll buy him a pint.

That's possibly the best thing he's ever said on STW. Respect to him."[/i]

cynically exploit poor foreign workers who were desperate for work.

I don't think all immigrant workers are neccessarily poor, desperate or exploited.

If I could go to another country in Europe and earn four times what I earn here for the same work, while also benefitting from a better standard of living then I'd be pretty tempted and I wouldn't be any of those things.

See also our ex-pats in various other countries doing exactly that.

Ernie - was it "new labours open door policy" - or is it the freedom of workers to move under EC legislation?

I don't see that the government had much option. I don't see how numbers could be reduced without leaving the EC. We would then have to have returned all our emigrants to other EC counties - of which there are a lot - mainly unproductive retired types.

I do wonder if you have fallen short of your usual well informed standards on this one.

Dunno - its a complex one and the arguments can be stated in many ways.

Edit - many of the ones I know are actually rather disillusioned in that while they earn far more than at home they did not account for how much things cost here and are heading home again asap.

As for the point about bogus nursing certificates - thats just humbug. You ma have come across poor nurses but their certification is very well checked. More likely theya re working 60+ hr weeks and are too knackered to care anymore

That wasn't the thinking behind New Labour's open door policy. For a start, if immigrants are allowed in "to do all the jobs the incumbent population don't want to" why would you not want to control the numbers ? Saying that 50,000 or 1 million can come in, suggests that you are not really bothered about if there are jobs for them.

While you are right on Labour not controlling the numbers, We had a housing boom and there simply weren't the "right people" around to build them for the price and I refer to the right people being cheap.

And why can't British youngsters be trained for jobs which skilled foreign workers are now doing filling ? Youth unemployment is at about 1 million......why would British employers bother training kids when they can simply employ skilled foreign workers. And please don't say that British kids don't want to work.

You've answered your own question there. Why pay to train people when you can import them or export their jobs elsewhere? And I will say some British kids don't want to work and that's simply because of sh*t wages.

And I could go on....... but the truth is that New Labour instigated it's open door policy because they wanted keep wages down and they decided to cynically exploit poor foreign workers who were desperate for work.

Here's what I said earlier:

Business loves immigration, especially if they work for less than those already here.

Business have had Governments in their pocket since year dot.

We had a housing boom and there simply weren't the "right people" around to build them for the price and I refer to the right people being cheap

you might have thought it was a housing boom, but if it was.....