[url= http://streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=429412&Y=355070&A=Y&Z=120 ]streetmap is better than bing[/url]
Certainly doesn't seem to keen on bikes.
However rules of trespass: Civil offence, can sue for damages. So if you snip his barbed wire, he could get you. If not, police won't be bothered.
Damages can be more than physical though. Round our way I avoid cheeky trails on grouse moors as (with a good expensive lawyer) it could be implied that riding scared the helpless birds, so they couldn't be shot out of sky, therefore loss a season's income. Which is a lot.
ir_bandito - Member
here?streetmap is better than bing
You mean the public footpath where it says "No Bicycles"? I wonder who put that up by the way.
Duty of care does not mean you have to put warning signs around every bit of boundary fencing you put up in case someone pricks their finger on it. Climbing over barbed wire is a perceivable risk.Also as a land owner you cannot get around duty of care.
No.
DOC owed by occupiers is specifically dealt with by the 57 act, including the nature and extent of warnings provided to visitors by occupiers. If the warning is sufficient to keep the visitor reasonably safe, the DOC is discharged.
It's a bit more complicated than than in practice though.
Looking at the OS map there is a perfectly good Bridleway (Pennine Bridleway) that runs into the woods, which you would legally be entitled to ride along.
Right next to a Car Park.
That seems like a no brainer to me 🙄
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No.DOC owed by occupiers is specifically dealt with by the 57 act, including the nature and extent of warnings provided to visitors by occupiers. If the warning is sufficient to keep the visitor reasonably safe, the DOC is discharged.
Are you saying that you do need signs about barbed wire boundary? This isn't my experience. Electric fence which is difficult to identify certainly.
Are you saying that you do need signs about barbed wire boundary? This isn't my experience. Electric fence which is difficult to identify certainly.
Not necessarily. that's what I meant by it being a bit more complicated in practice. I'm not very familiar with the caselaw, but from memory the usual test is whether the danger was blatantly obvious that no sign/warning should be needed. So as you've pointed out, staring at a bit of barbed wire is very different from an electric fence.
I'd imagine there's a difference too between barbed wire above head height v waist height from a warning perspective. Or barbed wire where you wouldn't expect it (similar to the OP scenario - ie a gate being an otherwise normally usable entrance, but for the fact it has barbed wire at head height!)
The countryside is full of barbed wire. IMO there is no need for landowner to put up a sign by every gate. I would be most surprised if the landowner has put up barbed wire at head height over a gate on a footpath. I have seen nothing (worlds or images) in this thread to suggest that is actually what has happened. I understand the wire has been put up on his private property and above a gate to his private property and not on a public footpath
Bored reading so sorry if this has been posted but
We no longer come up the footpath anymore due to him filming us
Does he have your permission to film you? I believe you can ask to see the images he has taken and demand that he delete them, could be wrong though. Do you have access to any small children? If so, borrow one and if he films you call the cops and tell them there's some dirty old man filming little kiddies.
I believe you can ask to see the images he has taken and demand that he delete them, could be wrong though.
Nope, not in a public place, not unless you own the photons that bounced off you and found their way to the camera. In your own house you can set your own rules of course.
He really doesn't like bikes, and takes every opportunity he can to complain to the council, neighbours and anyone who will listen.
We stopped using that bit years ago - why cause grief? It's his land, and there are plenty of other ways in.
As I said several times we don't use the path anymore. The field we cross reaches the path eventually where it isn't even worth getting back on the bike. He is a tool who I've tried to avoid since he made me angry as I could easily see him reporting some bollox to the old bill. He has now gone to the legnths of putting up CCTV signage in the woods. Must be camo'd cameras as I couldn't see any 😆
Yeah, I've encountered him before and he's belligerent and aggressive, won't listen to reason and really doesn't like bikes.
Plenty of people (non riders) have mentioned him as well, he's well known to the rangers and a lot of the locals and generally he's ignored.
Thing is.. He only needs to moan in the right ear once, and it could cause a lot of access related grief. I've seen similar things happen in other local spots, and some of the rangers aren't particularly happy about the number of riders up there anyway.
Junkyard - lazarusObtuse as ever ernie.
Oh look, a personal attack from Junkyard, how unusual.
And on a thread about barbed wire ffs ! 😀
Does he own or rent the land?
I had a ding dong here in the Peaks. Woman ranted and raved that it was her fathers land AND access road. I pointed out they rented. Soon shut the idiot up.
I had a ding dong here in the Peaks. Woman ranted and raved that it was her fathers land AND access road. I pointed out they rented. Soon shut the idiot up.
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I don't think your helping matters OP the guy sound a numbskull but you then trespass across some land. I know it's hard to tell but looking at the links above their seems to be legal routes into those woods that you could use.
Oh look, a personal attack from Junkyard, how unusual.
You were deliberately misinterpreting the thread just as you are deliberately misinterpreting that as a personal attack.
You were deliberately misinterpreting the thread
"deliberately misinterpreting the thread" ! ffs have a day off 😆
so you wish to insist that they were asking if it was legal to use barbire in general - looks at thread titles and strokes chin.
Whatever ernie 🙄
As for playing the man clearly you are not having a rest day
I can give you both a rest week if you don't stop.
If I don't stop what .... posting smilies ? assuming that's aimed at me.
so you wish to insist that they were asking if it was legal to use barbire in general
I'm not "insisting" anything. This is a thread about barbed wire JY, get a grip. You can think whatever you want to think.
For the record I assumed wrightyson was asking if the use of barbed wire had become illegal, in the same way that other things which were once legal are no longer so, for example broken glass bedded in mortar on a brick wall was once legal but no longer is. Health and safety and all that. Similarly I have no idea concerning the legality of razor wire, I do know that there is a duty of care towards trespassers, specially when it comes to children and building sites.
If however you think that I was "deliberately misinterpreting the thread" then that's up to you.
And I have to say, even if I was, I find it quite astonishing that you even want to make a issue out of it.
Anyway, think whatever you want to think 🙂
Anyway back in the rest of the world where there are 2 sides to every story there is a landowner who has done nothing wrong, who has told people repeatedly that bikes and footpaths don't mix but the same people keep trying their luck. THen they try and sneak round through gates that are not part of any right of way so he puts up something to make it harder to trespass. Add in there is appears to be a perfectly good BW access to where the bikers are trying to get to.
Remind me again who is being unreasonable?
Does he own or rent the land?
What difference would that make?
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[quote=mikewsmith ]Anyway back in the rest of the world where there are 2 sides to every story there is a landowner who has done nothing wrong
Well apart from lying to the police that is.
you mean this bit?
With reference to the police said man accused me of being threatening during one altercation. Hence avoiding him since.
It's quite possible that he felt threatened and that he felt the behavior of wrightyson was threatening. Perhaps the persistent trespassing is in itself threatening.
Just trying to take a common sense approach, all of the angst seems to come from people trying to ride on footpaths which (not opening a land access debate)is currently not on.
It's quite possible that he felt threatened and that he felt the behavior of wrightyson was threatening. Perhaps the persistent trespassing is in itself threatening.
How many times do I have to state that the footpath is hardly rideable and on each occasion with the idiot I was pushing up. You in particular mike see me as the big offender here.
On the occasion where he said I was being threatening, I had warned him that if he attempted to touch me or my bike there would be consequences. He prior to this point had tried to block my way physically rushing across the path whilst I was pushing up and stood there filming me.
If you go back to the op all I asked was whether (because someone else said it was not) it was illegal to put barb(ed)wire above a gate.
In context is the gate part of the footpath? Is it a gate you go through while on the footpath. Also pushing bikes on footpaths is a grey area.
No this gate is from a private field adj to the footpath. It then accesses the field the footpath is in. As in two metres away. Its a deliberate attempt to stop us or anyone else for that matter as loads of dog walkers used that field as an easier access to the woods above.
You must be able to see the idiot we're dealing with here from the other comments. And who ffs puts up CCTV signs in the woods 😀
As far as I know he can do what he likes with the gate.
this gate is from a private field adj to the footpath.
The clue would be in the words you used, it's private property, he could put a barbed wire and electric fence across it if he wanted to. You have no right of access through the gate.
On the occasion where he said I was being threatening, I had warned him that if he attempted to touch me or my bike there would be consequences. He prior to this point had tried to block my way physically rushing across the path whilst I was pushing up and stood there filming me.
So you threatened him, glad that is cleared up.
You must be able to see the idiot we're dealing with
It's becoming clear
And who ffs puts up CCTV signs in the woods
Probably someone who is sick of people trespassing.
Sorry at what point are we trespassing? Pushing a bike up a path is not trespassing nor is it a grey area. He told me he would stop me moving any further by pushing me back down the path, at this point he's filming and about a metre from my face. Now that's a challenge if I ever heard one. This was the second and last time I came across him because I no longer use the path I'm entitled to push my bike along.
Keep blaming me mikey boy if it makes you feel better, but all I asked initially was about the barb(ered)wire above the gate.
And on the barbed wire it's private land he can do what he wants
Sorry at what point are we trespassing?
No this gate is from a private field adj to the footpath. It then accesses the field the footpath is in.
Do you have permission to be in the "private field"? If not you've answered your own question.
[quote=mikewsmith ]Also pushing bikes on footpaths is a grey area.
Not all that grey - see page 7 of
wrightyson - Member
Sorry at what point are we trespassing? Pushing a bike up a path is not trespassing nor is it a grey area. He told me he would stop me moving any further by pushing me back down the path, at this point he's filming and about a metre from my face. Now that's a challenge if I ever heard one. This was the second and last time I came across him because I no longer use the path I'm entitled to push my bike along.
Keep blaming me mikey boy if it makes you feel better, but all I asked initially was about the barb(ered)wire above the gate.
Why not just take the "peaty" way down and push your bike if not ridable?
If I was the farmer, and you were using my private land as a cheeky shortcut becuase you didn't want to ride down or push down a Steve Pete Footpath © i'd be putting barb wire and bear traps on my land, perhaps even a shotgun trap. Now GTFO off my private land 😀
Not all that grey - see page 7
I read that and I'd say a statement that Pushing bikes on a footpath is legal would be black and white, this I call gray.
There is good evidence, although no direct case law, to support the view that
pushing a cycle on a footpath is not illegal
Still pushing a bike across a field that has no ROW on it is definitely not allowed without permission from the land owner.
NFW
Normal for Wirksworth.
I don't know the bloke but he sounds like a nob.
I'd like to suggest chinning him, but staying out of his way sounds like the best bet.
About that route through the woods. Is that a footpath?
Christ, lots of moralistic little Englanders on today!
aracer - Member
mikewsmith » Also pushing bikes on footpaths is a grey area.
Not all that grey - see page 7 of
And most of that is about footpaths as in pavements by the side of the road (or in the middle of one re: the zebra crossing - which is both black and white!)
You are on a footpath. Pushing or riding its very cheeky. I pushed up a footpath in the lakes last weekend. If challenged I'd have nailed my mouth shut and left sharply.
Yesterday I rode a footpath. Same again. Barbwire can hurt a genuine walker. I.e your act. Why are you even revisiting said area after this? Antagonise? Ffs
Pushing or riding its very cheeky.
One can be, one is not. Simple.
Pushing a bike on a footpath is perfectly legal as is carrying it. Riding it is illegal.
I am still confused as to where this gate is and why the OP is trying to get through it. @wrighty we need you to draw us a map.
Also I see no problem with being filmed pushing my bike up a footpath, it would seem the landowner is collecting evidence to show that @wrighty is within his rights. The only caveat is whether @wrighty is crossing private land with no right of way at some point.
jambalaya - Member
Pushing a bike on a footpath is perfectly legal as is carrying it. Riding it is illegal.
Still yet to see that actually written as proof, even on the CTC's leaflet which has a stated aim of opening all FP's up to bikes (which is a good idea) they still come up with
There is good evidence, although no direct case law, to support the view that
pushing a cycle on a footpath is not illegal
A change in interpretation would require a large scale awareness campaign to all of the stakeholders involved many of who don't share the CTC's views and interpretation.
as for the gate in question this was from earlier
this gate is from a private field adj to the footpath.
And on the barbed wire it's private land he can do what he wants
That's not what the law says. See the posts above. You owe a duty of care to anyone who is on your land, even if they are there uninvited.
I'm so glad I live in Scotland
