tom200 - Member
A Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV does 150 odd MPG
Honest John says 68mpg.
Honest John says 68mpg.
Mitsubishi recon 158! I don't know anyone who gets better than 34, quite a difference. Also about 6 miles range on electric only, so if your commute is that short you would be better off cycling anyway.
Does anyone know how much a new battery is for one of these hybrids costs?
Mitsubishi recon 158!
NO THEY DON'T
They are obliged to do the official government test cycle, and that's what the results say. They even say that on the website. They are NOT claiming that it will do 158mpg!
Bloody hell, people.
I don't know anyone who gets better than 34, quite a difference. Also about 6 miles range on electric only,
I know one person with one, and in *hybrid* mode, he gets mid 60s. And the electric range is 30 miles.
You only need to spend a few seconds behind any vehicle over 10 years old to realise keeping old vehicles going is not the answer. I would still argue low cost, low weight functional transport frequently recycled as something better comes along is the way to go.
Don't forget that the original diesels were designed to run on whatever crap combustion oil was thrown at them.
Yours SVO.
Why don't VW, etc re-program the cars with the emissions/pollution algorithm that they used to fool us?
And I still think that we need roads czars in each city to reign back private car use.
If you ran a delivery company, would you place each parcel, destined for a city, in their own car.
Or would you just place them in as few vehicles as possible?
A lot of the problem is down to suburbanisation.
The cities are less densely populated, and people still need to travel into the cities, but the public transport infrastructure to permit this has been lacking.
Easy on the drama Grips. Have you seen the Explore PHEV page on Misubishi's site? The big bold 156MPG? That's not Mitsubishi protesting about the rubbish euro tests they're forced to use.
They are obliged to do the official government test cycle, and that's what the results say. They even say that on the website. They are NOT claiming that it will do 158mpg!
Bloody hell, people.
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
Your are right. Definitely not claiming 158mpg.
Have you read their website?
Ok fair point, it might be hidden a bit more than those other numbers, but there's a FAQ answer that all but admits it's bollocks.
Only the big bold letters. Are you telling me that figure taking up nearly 25% of the front page is misleading?
if cars where just transport they would be much cheaper.
Your wright, cars r just **** fodder 4 us fikko nobbas who no nuffink
Of course, on the other side of the coin, had you actually studied this whole problem as I have you would see that there isn't a single simple solution. It's actually quite complex and requires a complete change of attitudes and behaviours that have been ingrained (in the UK at least) over the last 40 odd years. We need a multi-modal public transport system that is convenient, reliable and afforable for those in high population density areas whilst in low density areas we need priavte transport solutions that cover the same bases. Some of that can be covered by legislation (but requires the backing of popular consent) whilst others require innovation.
Whoever called out suburbanisation - spot on, another problem.
sited beside motorways. Around here all the former railway marshaling yards are houses. Given the nimby shouting over 1 new high speed rail line through rural England good luck getting a national rail distribution network re-built in the suburbs.
Explain that no new railways = no goods in the shops. Especially if the limit on car speed was run ahead of this. It would require some proper planning though which our politicians are averse to.
Yup. A tactical error, that- a lot of the anti-carbon debate became about peak oil and lifespan, because it was seen as a persuasive argument to transition away. And it was persuasive- just that instead of persuading people that we should stop burning oil, it persuaded people that it's OK to obtain it by any means from any location, because we're running out.
Unfortunately, green activists don't tend to understand economics - once necessity dictates enough demand then the economics of scale kick in and it becomes economically viable to extract materials that would have once been incredibly expensive. It's the same drive that will one day see us mining asteroids and the moon - what did these people expect?
They expect a more thoughtful world that can grasp the damage being done. Their mistake is that the world is full of people that don't (want to) care or understand, oblivious, not inteligent enough, or who think it's a con.
Hmmmm so far we have very few real world alternatives (given the laws of physics they are very difficult to deliver) that don't have massive price premiums (real and exploited for profit), require subsides to work, have hidden and not so hidden compromises of use, use massive amounts of embedded energy, require fossil fuel burning maintenance and parts, don't deliver the power and/or endurance required with vested interest groups and evangelical early adopters distorting and lying about real world performance.
The whole energy situation is plagued with the same problems. Currently it's all just band aids and moving the problem around, whilst the smug I've got a hybrid and walk to work, draw up punitive measures against the rest of the environmental terrorists 🙄 same old same old.
Aside from commuting, I think a lot of difference could be made if more people could be persuaded to replace short journeys by car with walking or cycling. Too many people think nothing of taking the car on a 2-mile round trip.
Not far from us, Next have built a large out of town store adjacent to a pre-existing M&S and Tesco with a massive car park. Next have built their own car park separated from the pre-existing one by a huge long fence, effectively forcing you to move your car if you want to visit both shops. Except I scrambled through the flowerbeds and over the fence
😀
Modern retal parks are a nightmare.. many a time I've scrambled through a bush because they're so badly designed.. do they really expect people to drive from M&S to KFC when they're only 50 feet apart as the crow flies?
I think that's the real problem. Lots of people out there who actually believe that and it becomes self fulfilling.we have very few real world alternatives
[quote=mattyfez ]Modern retal parks are a nightmare.. many a time I've scrambled through a bush because they're so badly designed.. do they really expect people to drive from M&S to KFC when they're only 50 feet apart as the crow flies?
I was staying at a hotel in Charlotte NC and wanted to go to a little shop just over the highway. I asked the receptionist the easiest way to get there and it involved a 3 mile drive. She just couldn't understand I wanted to walk and, to be fair to her, there was no way of getting there on foot without scaling two high fences and running across 6 lanes of traffic.
Mattyfez- it reminds me of being in the US on business and my hotel was separated from the shopping mall, restaurants etc, by a 50 m stretch of grass with a fence down the middle. No footpath by the very busy highway at the front. No path across the grass. They actually expect you to get a cab! Of course, I walked across the grass and scrambled over the fence. Must've looked a right idiot!
Madame would like a T6 Cali with a petrol engine, I'd like a 40kWh Zoe. We'll stick with a petrol estate until a clear winner emerges.
Someone mentioned the petrol bills with a petrol T6 but if you can afford a Cali you won't even notice the fuel bills on the bank statement. The battery hire and charging for the Zoe cost about the same as the petrol for a T6, buying an electric is a public health choice not a financial one.
Of course the production of batteries for hybrid electric vehicles is horrifically environmentally unfriendly not to mention the human cost involved in mining things like the lithium but given the mining and the ultimate disposal of the batteries takes place in third world countries we can all sit back and be smug about how 'clean' our vehicles are becoming.
Until they master hydrogen powered cars I'm sticking with petrol.
[i]Only the big bold letters. Are you telling me that figure taking up nearly 25% of the front page is misleading? [/I]
Would it be better if it was on the side of a bus? 😉
Agree about the car park thing. There seems to be zero consideration for pedestrians in most new developments. Separate car park for everything making sprawling sites. Then the planners complain about someone's extension not matching the mock Tudor Barret homes.
dannybgoode - MemberUntil they master hydrogen powered cars I'm sticking with petrol.
This is one thing that I wonder about... I think awareness that there's a transition away from carbon coming is now pretty good. But we seem to be doing it in little half-assed chunks. So frinstance, if we push people from diesel today, it's largely going to be to petrol not to zero emissions. And if it's to electric, it's still a fairly flawed electric with its own private environmental catastrophe. (though, o'course, car-sized lithium batteries are very recyclable) Realistically it'll lead to the scrapping of perfectly good cars and the production of more new cars, some considerable costs to individuals, for a short term air quality improvement but no progress- in fact, probably setbacks- towards the longer term goals. So where is the cutoff point? Incremental gains may not be worthwhile but we can hardly say "let's do nothing til we've got the perfect answer"
These things have often run into unintended consequences. The one that always half-amused, half-appalled me was catalytic convertors for sports bikes- in the mid-2000s they rapidly became ubiquitous, and then a huge percentage of owners took them off and sold them to scrappies or stuck them in the garage, sometimes completely unused, and fitted race cans. Often the cats were specifically designed with easy replacement in mind. Total madness.
We have an expanding retail area nearby. Theres a few quid locally and retaillers are keen to get in, the land owners want them and so does the council its a bit of a golden goose to them. Local residents generaly dont want it because of the extra traffic.
Strange thing is we have some of the best cycle paths in the country the housing development designers twenty years ago did a brilliant job and most households have bikes and use them. But these retail park planners just don't seem capable considering them their plans, its like they are just blind to the possibility.
The plans they put forward are a actually just a work of fiction, quoting multi shop visits from one journey etc which is quite frankly just a load nonsence when given any kind of scrutiny.
I think its just a case that everyone involved in the whole process is only really intrested in making as much money as possible and nothing, nothing else matters.
