[Closed] BAD BORIS and UK Imigration

Care homes have been unsustainable for a long time. Profits are very low. The amount councils will pay does not cover the legally mandated minimum standards.

going to be even more unsustainable soon then

Following on from compulsory contraception the other day, compulsory euthanasia for anyone not able to pay for their own care.

Job jobbed.

It's going to decimate some sectors and areas as I'm pretty sure those whose jobs will be lost due to cessation of (for example) car production in the North will not be picking up vacancies in fruit picking in Sussex.

TJ is bang on the button with the care industry (at least mainstream care).

Reducing immigration will also potentially knock on to construction - demand for housing driven partly from population growth, potential for surplus stock which may drive prices down but with construction running to wafer thin margins the developer may not survive to see the work through.

Lack of competition for jobs may well drive up labour rates but it will also hit pricing - again with many sectors running very slim margins the cost rises will drive price rises that will possibly consume the headline wage growth or drive business failures due to them becoming unsustainable.

Nearly everything coming out at the minute is highly one dimensional or at least presented that way.

That's before all the fancy new UK specific standards create a wave of compliance and administrative costs.

See the Brexit thread for previous pondering

I’m pretty sure those whose jobs will be lost due to cessation of (for example) car production in the North will not be picking up vacancies in fruit picking in Sussex.

And this is the problem. University graduates, for example, are mobile, they move to get well paid jobs and can afford to set up shop in a new city, and they usually don't have dependents. Moving across the country to do a low paid job is far less feasible because you leave behind your support network which is more important when you're skint and even more so if you have dependents.

I predict an employer backlash; in fact, it's already started.
Do wetherspoons employ lots of EU nationals? When will tim martin have something to say about this?
So johnson wants an infrastructure boom; that will require lots of labour - some highly skilled, some not. Where will the construction companies find the lower skilled/unskilled required for the grunt work on these schemes?
I safely predict that EU nationals will continue to leave the UK as we approach 31/12; does johnson have any suggestions on how to fill the employment gaps this will cause?
What proportion of the 'economically inactive' are actively seeking work and would they have any interest in replacing EU nationals in health care, service industries, hospitality, agriculture, food processing, construction labouring?
A charitable interpretation of this policy is that it's poorly thought through; more realistically, it's deliberately malign.
How long before brexiters start complaining when the service(s) they've become used to are affected and prices in various sectors begin to rise?
'Gentleman' farmers and landowners are, stereotypically, tory but they will be some of the first to feel the affects of this; how will they react?

Just another load of incoherent, ideologically-driven, right-wing cobblers, formulated by a bunch of the staggeringly dim who clearly haven’t got the first clue how the world actually functions.

This won’t survive first contact with the real world

After watching the BBC documentary on Universal Credit, I'm thinking a fair proportion of the "economically inactive" may not be for much longer. Unless they are happy to starve.

It's OK, there's 8 million economically inactive folk aged from 18-64 just gagging to take on fruit picking and care home jobs.

(OK, maybe not exactly 8 million, once you discount those in education, retirement, or disability..... ****ing barefaced lying is back in vogue)

Indeed. Presently being a full time carer for your sick parents in Merseyside?

Not any more. Not while there’s cabbages need picking in Norfolk. Your tent in the adjoining field awaits. If you set off walking now, you’ll be there by next weekend

So we're reducing the influx of cheap EU labour and asking UK citizens to work for a living instead of claiming benefits?

Is this a good or bad idea?

It’s more jobs for brits innit, didn’t you know we have loads of doctors/care workers/cabbage pickers on the dole queuing up for maximum wage jobs once the brown people fekoffbackhome.

Depends. The vast majority of the ‘economically inactive’ mentioned are either students, long term sick, disabled, full time carers or retired

I’m not sure how effective they will be filing all those jobs in the care homes and fruit orchards of the nation

It’s okay the full time carers cab simply move their relatives in to a group home and get paid for looking after their own relatives and other peoples.

Disabled folks can use the baskets on their mobility scooters to pick fruit in to. Students can stop smoking weed and watching daytime TV and help blind people with cabbage packing.

What an absolute set of bollocks

To be fair that is what they voted for...... They can have it.

Maybe it doesn’t matter, if brexit results in employment being at an all time high then that’s a bonus for the tory.

Let’s not mention the possible reduction in wages, pensions and workers rights.

I pray this will see a rise in union membership, but I suspect that unions will be next on the list for the Murdoch propaganda leaflets

IS it just EU labour , or just cheap labour?
Like the Phillipino cleaners at the hospitals, the Sri Lankans in the Indian Takeaway , the Nigerian porters in larger hotels, The Romanian Cauliflower pickers etc etc
Basically all jobs that the entitled English folk who won't get out of bed for less than £20k as thats what they need to earn to exceed their benefits ( I know this isn;t true , I am generalising /paraphrasing)
and alot of folk wouldnt do it as its hard graft , long hours , zero prospect jobs , with little or no employee protection ( thanks Brexshiteers ) , cold , outdoors , doesn't come with a subsidised canteen , unlimited coffee and fag breaks, 5 weeks holidays plus stats , no overtime at time and a half, and all the other nonsense that some people unrealistically expect
Nice one BJ

So we’re reducing the influx of cheap EU labour and asking UK citizens to work for a living instead of claiming benefits?

Most people on benefits would like to work. If British people are sitting around cos they can't be bothered to work then not having foreigners around isn't going to change that.

Basically all jobs that the entitled English folk who won’t get out of bed for less than £20k as thats what they need to earn to exceed their benefits

How do you get to pick and choose what job you take if you are on jobseekers? I thought you had to take available jobs otherwise they took your benefits away so I'm curious how you can turn down a job and stay on benefits?

I am somewhat conflicted. I'm a fully paid up pro European, labour supporting working class man. But I work in an industry that has seen a huge influx of foreign labour and one that thoughts of a pay rise has long since passed. My boss was on national telly a while back and the interviewer got him to admit that pay increases would never happen whilst there's a ready pool of cheap labour. And this isn't thanks to eastern European workers having a rich history in the printing industry. No, it's because they are willing to work on minimum wage, and do all the hours to scratch a meagre living out of it. What will happen I wonder. Most likely my boss will have to pay higher wages and we will go bust as there's no way we will get higher rates from our clients. Maybe it's what we all deserve.

People seem to be assuming that the immigrants are taking jobs away from Brits. But immigration as a whole grows the economy and creates more jobs. If you suddenly persuade all the immigrants to leave, or even many of them, there'll be loads of unfilled positions. Your boss might not even be able to run his business.

The ONS website doesn't have easily digestible details so here's the BBC's reality check on patel's verbal emission.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/51560120
In summary, economically inactive total is 8.45 million of which 1.87 million are actively seeking work and 6.6 million aren't.
Good news for the 1.87 million as they're going to be in great demand.....Ho ---king Ho.
There's also a sectoral view in another article
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-51560370

Comment up there ^^^ about '£20k on benefits'.
That would only be achievable by claiming a whole raft of benefits and certainly doesn't apply to the vast majority on JSA or UC.

I wonder what the long game is here for Bojo & Dom? On the face of it stopping cheap labour is an anti Tory thing to do so what's the plan?

Also Labour bods saying we need cheap foreign labour grates with me (even if it is true!)

As with all things, when intellectual heavyweights like Iain Duncan Smith and John Redwood are all over the news singing the praises of what a great idea this is, it’s safe to assume that it’s actually catastrophically stupid and will unfold into an absolute disaster*

* see Universal Credit

And this isn’t thanks to eastern European workers having a rich history in the printing industry. No, it’s because they are willing to work on minimum wage, and do all the hours to scratch a meagre living out of it.

Is this not also true of British born people doing the same work for the same money? Why be angry with people working hard and not getting paid enough, rather than those squeezing their workforce? You’re in a union, yes?

Interesting Reality Check about the economically inactive

BBC News - Are economically inactive people the answer to staff shortages?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/51560120

ctk
I wonder what the long game is here for Bojo & Dom? On the face of it stopping cheap labour is an anti Tory thing to do so what’s the plan?

There's only one alternative.

They plan to replace them with cheaper labour from 3rd world countries, but they'll wait until every employer is howling about how they are unable to fill starvation wage jobs because locals are lazy welfare spongers.

Expect an influx of "temporary" workers from Bangladesh, and other poverty stricken countries. They'll probably live in employer supplied barracks and get much less than the living wage.

I thought the same epicyclo.

Levelling up eh?

I suspect this is more like levelling down the SE so that everyone is poorer?

Tis the Tory way.

My work has lost a lot of Polish workers who didn’t come back after the Xmas shutdown. Partly due to Brexit and partly as wages back home have gone up to prevent a labour drain there.

If I'm right, these plans aren't being brought in over time? The plan is to bring them in like a sledgehammer basically?

It'll and on riots. Tory governments usually do.

Can’t wait to see the OAP’s from the local care home wash my car...they have had it too easy for years sitting about with tartan blankets over their knees...they will put those Eastern European’s to shame working from 8am to 8pm most days a week in the freezing cold for minimum wage.

Its going to ultimately result in higher prices for everyone for the impacted sectors. The govt are crazy if they think having to pay staff more won't directly translate to higher prices. 52% of idiots voted for it though...

Basically all jobs that the entitled English folk who won’t get out of bed for less than £20k as thats what they need to earn to exceed their benefits ( I know this isn;t true , I am generalising /paraphrasing)

I know this isn't true , I am generalising / paraphrasing

Yet still people skim read , see a figure , re-quote it out of context to prove the point that I have already stated that I know isnt true. Its the type of statement that gets quoted often

How do choose job seekers jobs Take job , turn up late on day 1 , later on day 2 , not at all on day 3 . Get fired , go back on benefits looking for that £20k a year job that they are all entitled to now we have voted to remove anyone who talks you know, abit foreign

Even on N M W Romanians could earn 4 x what they could at home for comparable work, so they are happy to do alot of hours -Bank a few thousand ££ so they can buy a plot of land and build a house and small holding then 'retire' early back to Romania . That is a convo I have had with a few taxi drivers over the years

Can’t wait to see the OAP’s from the local care home wash my car…

They'll be strapped to commodes, being fed by robots...

Even on N M W Romanians could earn 4 x what they could at home for comparable work, so they are happy to do alot of hours -Bank a few thousand ££ so they can buy a plot of land and build a house and small holding then ‘retire’ early back to Romania .

For counterpoint, the Romanians on my street are a couple, rent a 3 bed house, and are raising two British born kids. I don't think they are going back soon.

Is this not also true of British born people doing the same work for the same money? Why be angry with people working hard and not getting paid enough, rather than those squeezing their workforce? You’re in a union, yes?

you're stating the obvious there. but the point is that there's an even larger pool of those willing to work for those low wages. doesn't do those in work many favours if you are unskilled.

And?

Seriously, you think people currently not working or working for low wages are about to get well paid jobs they want, with easy hours and a back rub from the boss… just by the government keeping people out (and keeping people in) the country if they don’t have a PhD and a chunky salary? The unemployed, and those people in work currently feeling their employers act unfairly towards them, aren’t going to be well looked after by this government, as it seeks to remap our economy at speed from next year. Workers will be squeezed ‘till they pop.

Care sector recruitment is already a national problem, I totally agree with TJ's initial comments about care homes, but feel there is a far greater risk in relation to home care. Regardless of political alliances, I feel the whole political system failed us, all parties, by allowing an election to be effectively a second referendum due to their total incompetence.

Some were incompetent, but for some it played out exactly as they hoped it would.

The salary cap seems the wrong way around to me. Surely you should only be allowed in if your job offer is less than £25k?
That way employers will be forced to give high paying jobs to Brits (maybe having to train them) and we can get immigrants in to do the more menial jobs that will get automated out of existence soon. That way you have a high paid, high skilled local population who can pay lots of taxes, buy lots of consumer goods - keeping the economy churning - and are prepared for the world of the future.

There’s only one alternative.

Given this is the Tories and their solution to every problem they're creating seems to be 'technology' I'm surprised BoJo's not rabbiting on about how robots will take over the crap jobs no one else wants to do.

It sound great for the Tories to put out this message as it is what a lot of people want

What will probably happen in reality is that there will be 100's of exception for each sector which won't be shouted about and covered in the media they will be slowly created week by week.
We need more hospitality people - knock up an exception to ignore the £25K and qualifications criteria
We need more care workers - knock up an exception to ignore the £25k criteria
etc,.

Will end up exactly as it is now but with loads of exceptions that the general public are not aware of are are happy in the knowledge that no immigrants are coming in because of the 70 point thing.