Forum menu
Mrs Zip’s request not to do it has been declined.
She stated that the shop is reopening.
She looks after her mum and not happy to use public transport.
The notification came through at 9.20 tonight, is a robot responsible for a random response?
Any way to appeal?
Did she ask for a postponement/ change of date or to be excused?
You can still ask for a change of date if it was the latter. You can also appeal the decision, but what the success rate is I have no idea.
From the gov. Website
If your request is turned down, you can still ask to change the date of your jury service.
If you disagree with the decision
You can appeal if your request to change the date of your jury service or be excused is refused. Write to the Jury Central Summoning Bureau, including:why you disagree with the decision
your juror number (this is on your summons letter)
your name and address
your date of birth
the name and address of the court you’ve been summoned to
the dates of your jury service
Head of the Jury Central Summoning Bureau
HM Courts and Tribunals Service
Jury Central Summoning Bureau
Phoenix House
Bradford
BD3 7BH
Thanks ,that’s an avenue for us to pursue.
It’s the Old Bailey so it’s unlikely to be a quick one.
It’s the Old Bailey so it’s unlikely to be a quick one.
Not necessarily. It’s also just a Crown Court for central London, so the vast majority of cases will be ‘mundane’.
Could get through a few cases over two weeks.
I turned up for mine, there were TV crews on the court steps. Got ushered into the main Crown court, defendents were in a dock with bulletproof glass from dock to ceiling. Judge explained the jurors selection process which included "Are you related to, or know someone in the local police force" my hand went up so quick. My partner's (at the time) brother in law was in the local plod armed response unit. So that was me excused. So spent the rest of my time at home, ringing up each morning for a no thanks message.
I've been called up twice. Both times they contacted me a couple of days before to say i'm no longer needed.
panel of judges review the evidence in serious crimes.
Like this bunch of illiberal types?
See many legal comment blogs for why that hasn't worked so well.
I've just had to do it
its was the worst work week per month plus another week. Tried to get out of it but ended up having to do it
What a complete waste of time and my tax money
What a complete waste of time and my tax money
You think that a fair trial is a waste of tax money? Would you think the same if you were accused of the crime?
What happens if you just ignore the letters etc ? Can’t imagine they have anyone available to come and smash your back door in to see if you are there.
Well if you have acknowledged the letter as Mrs Zippy has, you have a bit of an issue. You can't now use the "I had no idea about it, so not wilful contempt" argument. I don't know how often they will pursue contempt for failure to attend, I suspect most likely with those who have argued and still don't attend. No idea how they can tell if you "had a temperature yesterday and have booked a test" - under normal circumstances you'd be expected to provide a Dr's note to say you were unfit to attend but since you won't see a Dr.
On the other hand, the idea that its impossible to attend because the shop can't open and the mother needs care is probably somewhat tenuous - what happens if Mrs Z gets ill (there's a nasty virus going round you know!). The "don't fancy getting on a bus" line will definitely not wash with the court clerk who has probably had to get on a bus/tube throughout as an essential worker in London.
What happens if you just ignore the letters etc ? Can’t imagine they have anyone available to come and smash your back door in to see if you are there.
I was called up, just before a house move. Read the letter & put it to one side to respond & promptly totally forgot about it.
I assume the people who bought my house didn't get their back door smashed in & I never heard about it again. I've also heard of people just ignoring/binning the letter & never hearing anything. obviously not applicable in your case as you've responded now.
Easy one to get out of, just cough a bit, temperature & loss of taste/smell at the moment is a great excuse.
I'm shocked I tell ya, shocked. The lengths people want to go to get out of their civil duty, and no doubt complain about brazen criminals getting off scot free.
Thankfully I'm exempt, so can feel a complaint is right and just 😛
Medical. Doesn't need to be documented. "Ok but I must use the loo every 30 minutes or else" will work if it's really important.
Just wait until you need a jury - and are face with 3 judges who are politically appointed .
it might just be a good idea to turn up - or don’t whinge when the above happens ...
judges who are politically appointed .
Judges in the UK are not politically appointed. That doesn’t mean that accused of a serious crime I’d prefer Judges to lay people.
I’ve done a stint at the Old Bailey, 2.5 days sat in the canteen then sent home. Just over 2 years later got called to Kingston CC. Sent home the Monday of week 2 without seeing the inside of a courtroom. I really didn’t want to get called for a long trial as my job is not the sort where I can just walk away for several weeks and would’ve been stuffed if on a trial long enough that my employer no longer covered the salary.
Jury waiting rooms are split down the middle of people who really want to do it and have the time, and people who really don’t want to be there as have other pressing matters.
I really didn’t want to get called for a long trial as my job is not the sort where I can just walk away for several weeks and would’ve been stuffed if on a trial long enough that my employer no longer covered the salary.
For anything longer than 2 weeks they usually warn you, and my understanding is they are a bit more agreeable to excusal then - nobody wants to be three weeks into a six week trial when a juror suddenly “takes ill” or has to deal with a family emergency.
The loss of earnings allowance also starts to go up quite a bit once the cases become protracted.
Medical. Doesn’t need to be documented. “Ok but I must use the loo every 30 minutes or else” will work if it’s really important.
They may not routinely demand proof but the judge is perfectly entitled to ask for it. I expect it will depend if they think you are taking the piss or are struggling with numbers.
I received my letter last week.
They could be a little less provocative in the request!
The first thing you see opening the letter are the words ‘Jury Simmons’ so you think your in trouble!
Not told my employer yet as just awaiting the result of an internal interview.
Kind of looking forward to it, but 2 weeks is the Max I could do as we have a young son and Mrs FD hours of work can alter, and I’m the one who normally flexes my work for child care etc.
Does make me wonder that at some point I might have to have an ingrained dislike of (enter stereotype here)
Judges in the UK are not politically appointed.
You would hope not. I sometimes wonder how close Judge John Deed may be to the truth when MrsMC is watching it though.
The jury system is flawed in a lot of ways, not sure I fancy any of the alternatives. Secret Barrister is an excellent discussion of the issues
oddly if you just ignore the letters I suspect they might not smash your door in, but they can apply large fines or a few weeks of porridge I guess. It's not like your dealing with HokeyDokey Parking inc.
I agress juries are an anachronism. And you can't trust judges. Simply select people at random and send them off for a spell, or apply a fine. No one is innocent. Assign the crimes and number selected by postcode obvioously
Am I right in thinking that having a Saturday, Sunday,Monday pre booked hotel stay 3 weeks after Mrs Zip is due to start her duty means they won't stick her on a really long case?
That is my understanding.
What isn’t clear (and this could be affecting more people than normal this year) is whether “I’ve booked a weeks leave, planning on staying at the in-laws” counts as a prebooked holiday.
Am I right in thinking that having a Saturday, Sunday,Monday pre booked hotel stay 3 weeks after Mrs Zip is due to start her duty means they won’t stick her on a really long case?
I think you might be digging yourself a hole here. Mrs Z cannot possibly do Jury duty because not only does the shop need her in these economically tough times, she has caring duties for her mother which she couldn't possible get out of. BUT just two weeks later she can afford to take a three-day break... The Clerks have seen and heard it all before - and I suspect have declining sympathy for people with "ah but also this" excuses, ultimately the Judge would decide - and they aren't daft either.
FWIW - I'm guessing there is a good chance the weekend you are thinking of is a bank holiday weekend. In which case Juries don't sit on bank holidays so any long case would resume on the Tuesday.
Fwiw Mrs t-r was called up
phoned up and told them she was. Teacher ....
Boom no more jury duty
So tell them Mrs zippys a teacher.
think you might be digging yourself a hole here. Mrs Z cannot possibly do Jury duty because not only does the shop need her in these economically tough times, she has caring duties for her mother which she couldn’t possible get out of. BUT just two weeks later she can afford to take a three-day break…
We are using up trips from last year that were cancelled.
Going on Saturday night and the shop is closed Sunday and .Monday.
It will be the first time I’ve seen my 86 year old parents since October.So we are not exactly hitting club Tropicana.
Sent the the letter back stating I couldn't do jury service because I suffer with IBS and Diverticulitis which can mean i very little warning I need the toilet !!
2 days later I get an email removing me from being call in the future.
Bit of a thread resurrection. I was called up about 6 weeks ago for the usual 2ish week stint. I was emailed today to say it would now be an 8 week case, due to start on 10th Jan. This would leave me 4 working days to mitigate an extra 6 weeks out of work. I think that's an unreasonably short amount of time. I wonder if I ask for a deferral it might make it more likely to go back to a 2 week stint, some time in the future?
Just visit your local pub a few days before hand and you’ll be unable to attend due to covid isolation. Job done
Do they do the jury selection without you being present now? When I did my service a few years ago, the jury for any given case was selected from a larger group at the court. Perhaps you are going into a pool who might be selected for a longer case and so may not be called, or perhaps the protocol has been changed due to Covid?
Every time I see someone reading the Daily Express / Mail I really hope they never get called up for Jury service esp with a non white defendant. They’ve been fed racist hatred and bilge day in day out their whole lives and then we put them in charge of someone’s liberty?
I think it’s complete madness. No wonder white middle class people have the lowest conviction rates…
ever done jury service ?
Will all the people here wanting to avoid doing it, then the accused are going to get those that will bother to turn up. Now , if that is the Daily Express middle England pensioner so be it.
But maybe it is up to other segments of the population to take jury service seriously to even that demographic out.
Come the revolution when I'm in charge (gawd help us) the access path to our state pension would require a couple of months of jury service (or other voluntary community based work if not enough jury members needed). Old enough to have seen a bit with the security of a pension rather than screwing your work over, young enough to still have some recognition of what it was to be younger.
No jury service, no pension.
Come the revolution when I’m in charge (gawd help us) the access path to our state pension would require a couple of months of jury service (or other voluntary community based work if not enough jury members needed). Old enough to have seen a bit with the security of a pension rather than screwing your work over, young enough to still have some recognition of what it was to be younger.
No jury service, no pension
I would be against that approach - but it would be a skewed demographic with maybe less flexible ideas than , say, the 20-30 year olds.
Following the German system would make more sense - when you are called up for jury service , it is compulsory - but the state is responsible for paying you salary. Your company don't continue to pay you, so effectively they just have to hold the job open until the case finishes.
On the case I was on, it lasted 2 weeks - we could state when chosen whether we were able to commit to the time - but it had to be a very good excuse. In the prior selection one of the potential jurors knew the accused ! That case also lasted 15 weeks - so unless you are paid somewhat the financial burden on people is unacceptable.
I'm with you convert.
Received paperwork a couple of weeks ago for mid March 2022, never been called up before but may end up being excused due to minor connection to the case 😕
may end up being excused due to minor connection to the case
Please tell me you're the defendent...
Perhaps I should have started a new thread called "delaying jury service"? I'm ok to take part for either 2 or 8 weeks. I just think it would be fair to give appropriate notice. My paperwork says that I have to turn up on day 1 regardless, so who knows what it'll be? This means I have to plan for the worst case which will be a bit of a task in the 4 business days I have before starting (with teams in 4 timezones)
Im completely against compulsory jury service, especially as suggested by convert.
Mainly due to the fact I've seen that impact on a friend who was a juror on a 6 week case related to child sex-trafficking. What he heard/saw on that case has haunted him since.
I sincerely believe Jury service should be opt-out. Or at the least you can have the option to not do certain types of case.
Genuine question for those who state that they can't be off work for two weeks - why is this? What's going to happen if you get sick, have an accident, go on holiday etc? I spent 6 or 7 years consulting on a day rate, so being off work was a big hit, so had to build in a buffer... but all the same didn't like it and got into some bad habits mentally about 'needing' to work,
Im completely against compulsory jury service, especially as suggested by convert.
Mainly due to the fact I’ve seen that impact on a friend who was a juror on a 6 week case related to child sex-trafficking. What he heard/saw on that case has haunted him since.
Interesting thought. I would imagine given what he saw and heard there will be no one in the land more passionate about these purpotraitors having justice served on them, which in our society requires jurors. But you think it would probably be best they didn't have a part in that justice system they will be keen is happening. I wonder if they do too. Lots of people in police forces and child welfare agencies sleep badly because of what they witness but would have to be dragged kicking and screaming from doing it as the very act of seeing it enhances their desire to make sure the work is done. Did/do they have any pre-existing circumstances that meant they were vulnerable and suseptable to issues after hearing what they heard? There's a fine line between excusing those that would find such a case too harrowing and getting a jury of sociopath oddballs as everyone else has cried off for their own personal health.
As you say though, plenty of other cases exist and within limits everyone could be useful on one jury case or another even in a compulsory system. At the other end of scale I've always wondered how excruciatingly frustrating it must be prosecuting a super complex insider trading or business fraud case for a jury with no prior knowledge and average or (if it's going to be representative, significantly below average intelligence). Having to dumb down incredibly complex issues to dribbling fool level (see the way so many news papers, radio stations or TV channels deal with complex current affairs) yet still have justice done must be like beating your head against a wall. It would almost be better if the jury were all accountants or similar to have a chance of following along and appreciating nuance.
Genuine question for those who state that they can’t be off work for two weeks
In principle I agree, but it can depend exactly when those two (or 8) weeks are. I deferred my first date at the request of my employers as it was in the lead up to the end of the practical coursework element and I was the only teacher of two of the subjects that I taught at a 6th form college and there was no way that they could get a suitably qualified substitute.
I did 2 weeks on a 2 day case just before Xmas.
It changed my view on the system.
It certainly enlightened me to that I wouldn't want to be in the dock as an accused innocent.....
I'd have no confidence in the correct outcome coming out.
Mine was a domestic abuse case with extrennuating and complicated circumstances -
I did 2 weeks on a 2 day case just before Xmas.
It changed my view on the system.
It certainly enlightened me to that I wouldn’t want to be in the dock as an accused innocent…..
I’d have no confidence in the correct outcome coming out.
Maybe if more people did jury service there might be enough outrage that the system might be improved.
The Secret Barrister is a fascinating and awful read, though his conclusion is interesting.
Genuine question for those who state that they can’t be off work for two weeks – why is this?
The court system seems to be entirely focused on the timetables of the judges and to a lesser extent barristers (I would say solicitors but I know enough solicitors who specialise in legal aid work to know this isn't true).
There is compensation available to businesses but for a small business knowing someone might be away for a day or possibly six weeks doesn't help. For a short uncertain period cover for any skilled job is likely to be impossible to find at a rate covered by the compensation, particularly in a time when COVID is stretching things to the limit. The compensation doesn't cover or negate penalty clauses for time over-runs etc
For a short uncertain period cover for any skilled job is likely to be impossible to find at a rate covered
I was working 4am-9am and 7pm.till 9pm and doing jury duty....while I'm easily replaceable not at short notice for short periods.....(project engineer)
Next time it will be a case of whistle civic duty or not.
Please tell me you’re the defendent…
Fortunately not - it's at a coroners court.