good point houns 🙂
How odd?
Not really. It was not a comment about Trott the individual, but at the point raised that if the Aussies / Aussie press try to use Trott's illness as a way to unpick the hard exterior of the England team, they'll find in fairly short time that it'll have the opposite effect. Because that's the way the team have become, and something that you've commented on recently.
Yes, they are difficult to love, but they're also difficult to beat, and after 20 years of being the other way round, I know what I'd rather.
yes but what has that to do with me? Unless you meant TMS not THM?
it was a crude sledge, but perfectly understandable and appropriate
How is a crude sledge appropriate ? and why was he fined and no one else?
It went way past the mark from banter and humour or insults into threats.
Poor and poor you would defend it tbh
TBH I think roughing up tail enders is pretty cowardly. As they can barely bat why so scared of removing them with skill that you resort to intimidation?
Well the press here were quoting that Warner had no idea
Are you sure that quote isn't an old one?
I'm probably the furthest thing from a fair weather supporter you could find guv
Welcome back to the cricket threads, non fair weather supporter - clearly there's been some other reason you've not been posting on them recently.
Blimey - give the guy (physcle) a break unless this is STW's version of sledging! 😉
psychle is into his cricket for certain. I'm pretty sure we've been exchanging banter since 2005 on here.
He's probably 'slightly' more into it this week, thats all 😀
yes but what has that to do with me? Unless you meant TMS not THM?
Unless I'm totally wrong (in which case i apologise) you have repeatedly criticised the England team not just over their performances, but because they've not been particularly 'nice' in how they go about it (eg; Broad standing his ground when given not out). If they can use this ("do it for Trotty, let's show Warner and his mates what we think of them", etc.) to make them play better, EVEN IT IT MAKES THEM EVEN LESS LOVEABLE - I'll take that trade.
for the record, my take on sledgegate is that its all part of a fiercely competative series and although I think that Clarke's comments were clumsy that doesn't really suprise me. He is under immense pressure to succeed and there is a thread of genuine dislike between the teams.
Bowling short to tailenders? All part of the game. I fully expect Jimmy, Broad and whoever the 3rd seamer is to be right at the aussies in the next test. The trouble with trying to intimidate professional sportsmen is that if it doesn't work you are just motivating them even more. I think it was Napoleon who said something like 'do not intervene or distract your enemy when he is making a mistake'. No need to sledge england, they were more than capable of chucking the game away with no help at all. Far better to smile broadly and keep quiet. That approach relies on a little discipline and no-one being a gobshite though.
Does anyone actually think that KP, Broad, Cook etc are going to be unsettled by the Aussie talk? I think not, and its likely to backfire.
Unless I'm totally wrong (in which case i apologise) you have repeatedly criticised the England team not just over their performances, but because they've not been particularly 'nice' in how they go about it (eg; Broad standing his ground when given not out).
Steve Waugh has a theory that players the Aussies get stuck into (Ganguly, Broad etc) are ones who play the game in an Australian manner...
Fair enough TOJ - my main point (in the past) was that I thought Broad was a cheat (still do) and you are correct that I felt that the England team had/has an attitude (gamesmanship, cheating, general sureliness) that made them/makes them difficult to like - oh and to give you some ammo re the Gower link, their awful dress sense (the vests etc!!) 😉
At the top level, I think sledging is sad but part and parcel of the game. I can live with it but would prefer it not to be required. Note the respect that Federer, Nadal, Murray show for each other despite wanting to rip each others guts out (metaphorically speaking) on each point. My wider concern * is how it trickles down into school sport and the sport I play. Luckily, we have a cricket league that is self-selected and based on a style of play and behaviour that we all enjoy. The only rule of sledging here it that it can only be directed at your own team!!! But it is becoming a worry at the school level.
* I am sure that Anderson can look after himself.
Perhaps the real question here is why was Trott's "condition" not assessed better/earlier before we got to this stage?
At least I am the best in my family was a great reply to a sledge from the other Waugh.
Sledging should be edgy but it should also be funny - it should no tbe a threat
IIRC someone mentioned to mcGrath about his wifes cancer as well - way over the line
The next England batsman who gets a gobful from Warner should just say:
"Hey Dave, if you can stay off the booze long enough to play a full series I'll listen to what you've got to say. Until then you can * off you knuckle-dragging, pumped-up T20 slogging, short-arsed, little *".
Actually, scrub that - just say it in a press conference.
Also, I think all the England players should only ever refer to Clarke as 'Kim' - as in Kim Hughes, because that is ultimately how he is going to end up as captain.
Failing that, we could just rise above it and do a 'Jardine' - "what a positively ghastly little country" (or something along those lines).
As for what Clarke said to Anderson, it was absolutely fine - Anderson was indulging in some sharp practice. Johnson had his tail up and Clarke didn't want anything to 'break the spell'.
Again, Anderson ought to have just said "Calm down, Kim. You know what happens when you get too emotional......"
[quote=teamhurtmore said]my main point (in the past) was that I thought Broad was a cheat (still do)
In the same way that Haddin and Clarke are (I'm sure I can find the videos if need be), or in some other sense?
England seem to have no problem with what goes on during play, but think Warner's post match comments were unprofessional and disrespectful, regardless as to who they were aimed at. Would you have KP talking about how funny it is having a walking LBW victim in your team who rarely scores more than 30?
sledging will never go away*. We have to accept it and live with it. i said in the summer of cricket thread a few months back, that England started getting good when Fletcher took over and they identified the group of players that were technically 'good enough' but had the mental strength to deal with the pressure. Without both parts, they wouldn't succeed - Rampsrakash vs Collingwood for example.
You see it now in the mental assessments they do, Broad being highlighted as one of the guys who will use the recent shitstorm in the press to actually motivate rather than affect him negatively.
* not in professional sport, where it ISN'T a 'game' any more, it's livelihoods and careers and self-esteem..... winning is all, not how you won. I'm glad that you (THM) have a league where it isn't accepted, so you can play in a way that you enjoy. I played both hard league cricket and Jazz Hat cricket in my time and you approach each differently. Sadly, for me, when i couldn't cut it in the tough stuff any more, playing only the friendly stuff didn't satisfy the urge any more.
Oh, and re the tennis analogy. Don't buy that for a minute. They might not be yelling at each other from the back of the courts, and all appear chummy off it, but don't think for a minute that if one sees a chance to disrupt the other by slowing down the play / taking a piss break / all that incessant brow mopping, they won't grab it with both hands.
Yep, agree that sledging will never go away nor gamesmanship. In cricket we (England) give as much as we get and cant get worked up about any of it nor the stick and stones from one Aussie. Its all part of the media circus that goes with the profession. I just dont like it.
TOJ - you forgot Djok's ability to feign an injury at key moments!!! 😉 But its about balance - and that is where I feel England get it wrong at times, that's all.
Our league is hard and competitive BTW its just that over the years we have weeded out those teams that do not know how to strike the correct balance. I open to batting and the bruises all over my arms, shoulder and chest attest to the competitive nature of the cricket and my falling skill levels and advancing age!! Oh and the dodgy patch just short of a length on the home pitch.
Anyway it was nice to wake up this morning without another overnight horror show!!
And thanks for sending us convicts down this way Zokes, it's a real hardship to bear growing up with all this lovely weather, beaches and wide open spaces, plus an economy that's actually going somewhere
Well, it was, until you idiots somehow managed to elect a poor imitation of a chimpanzee as your PM. Can't blame me, I can't vote yet....
I'm probably the furthest thing from a fair weather supporter you could find guv
Well, you certainly seem to be conspicuous by your absence on these threads compared to your previous chipper self in 06/7 😉
do you guys even know what a bloody bogan is??
Yep, the chav's Australian cousin. You see plenty of them on Hindley Street of a Saturday night. Usually of poor intellect, and poorer attitude. Three examples:
1) David Warner
2) The editor of the Courier Mail
3) Tony Rabbott
Another bad thing about the whole Trott situation is that it avoids the spotlight being on some other issues that England need to address ON the field.
Namely the fact that the Aussies have worked Root out, and I can really see him struggling in this series.
But much more importantly, the monumental pillock that is Kevin Pietersen. His second innings dismissal was a disgrace. Again.
"I'm KEVIN PIETERSEN, I don't duck bouncers, I take them on because I'M KEVIN PIETERSEN. I'm THE MAN".
Despite the fact that there was barely anyone behind square, two men back and a short leg in, on a bouncy track with a quick bowler who was getting good value out of bowling short, KEVIN PIETERSEN will not adjust his approach one iota.
This says all you need to know about 'KP' and his attitude to the team and the match situation. He is simply not interested in anything other than KEVIN PIETERSEN, the brand.
Expect him to start talking about himself in the third person at some point during the series........
I'm of the opinion that the ECB knew about Trott prior to sending him and did nothing to support him, just like Mike all those years ago.
I personally can't see what the problem is but I hope eh sorts himself out. 😐
Honestly, it makes Groves & Froch's pre-fight banter seem like librarians chatting during their tea-break.
This says all you need to know about 'KP' and his attitude to the team and the match situation. He is simply not interested in anything other than KEVIN PIETERSEN, the brand.
I really don't agree about this KP bashing. Everyone else plays stupid shots to get out, yet as ever, it's KP who attracts the flak.
Yes, but 'KP' is a swaggering big head of the worst kind. He has attracted pretty much universal loathing wherever he has laid his kit bag. He simply cannot fathom why people like to wind him up (because he has not got a self-deprecating bone in his body and is bound to bite in case you are wondering). He is tolerated because he is a uniquely talented player (in recent England memory any way). When this lot retire, you will not see a single complimentary word (on a personal level) from any of his team mates.
I also find it massively frustrating watching someone who has his talent play the way he does. All hands, no second line of defence, and only ever one ball away from doing something really stupid.
In my opinion a lot of this stems from how he has triumphed in cricket through bloody mindedness. When he started playing professionally in South Africa he was a filthy off spinner who batted at nine and couldn't buy a run. Through sheer hard work and, critically, self-belief, he has made himself into a test batsman who averages nearly fifty. This is a testament to him, and I admire him for this. However, this self-reliance often results in flawed personalities. As exemplified by Pietersen.
My issue is with how this has now translated into riding roughshod over the team ethic. He will say it isn't true. His teammates and coaches will say it isn't true. But they're all thinking the same thing.
People talk about inhibited players getting themselves out before they have even taken guard. Sometimes Pietersen does this through his craven need to assert himself. I wish he'd just leave the attitude at the pavilion gate and play witha clean slate.
If there wasn't a need to assert yourself and the attitude left in the pavilion, we would not have had IVA Richards, for one.
Wasn't it a known fact amongst bowlers that you needed to get Viv early, when he was trying to assert himself?
I'd have that down as a weakness (of sorts), then!
Thanks for strengthening my argument, though!
Just to clarify. It wasn't just necessary to get him early, from a run-saving and obvious point of view. Many bowlers of the era have commented that his main weakness was a need to assert himself against the bowlers, and thus is was 'their chance' to get him out.
That average may have been 60+ without the peripheral stuff.
I suspect looking after his average was not Viv's bag. However looking at their records, and more importantly the games they influenced, it seems a weakness worth having.
I think it was Gower who was once asked about the best tactic for bowling to vivi.
'Set the stumps up quickly and start bowling before he even gets to the crease'
He has attracted pretty much universal loathing wherever he has laid his kit bag.
Well, I quite like him. Like Viv, he's a big-hitting test batsman, as opposed to a T20 bludger like Warner.
I also thought he was a reasonable choice as captain, and I wasn't alone in this assertion.
I also thought he was a reasonable choice as captain, and I wasn't alone in this assertion.
He was an appalling choice IMO. Genuinely baffled by anyone who thinks it was a good idea.
Aussies look in great form in both their International & Test Records this year
Losing test series 4-0 in India and 3-0 against England? 😯
Making Pietersen captain was done for the same reasons, and with exactly the same results, as making Botham captain. He was an appalling choice.
On the subject of Viv Richards. He was the best batsman of the post WW2 game. Better than Lara, better than Sachin in my opinion. If he had a weakness it was the need to dominate early on. Anything that detracts from a batsman playing each ball on its merit is a weakness. This can apply to scoreboard pressure, or the field setting, or the aggression of the fielding side. All of which are external to the batsman so beyond his control to a large extent.
What a batsman can influence is his own mindset and approach. Any batsman who predetermines his actions is putting himself at a disadvantage.
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[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/25166475 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/25166475[/url]
Typical aussie behaviour. They were announcing KP as 'South African born Kevin Pieterson' when he walked out in the last series. I was wanting to see if they did the same for their own when they play their ****stani spinner with the freshly printed passport but he's unlikely to get a game.
Just checked the forecast here in Adelaide. 18C and rain for Thursday 🙁
Team thoughts? I'd bring Bresnan in if fit and maybe give Ballance a go.
I think they'll want to stick with four bowlers and will swap Bresnan for Tremlett, that will also shorten the tail a bit. The bold choice would be Stokes but I think they'll probably go with Ballance or Bairstow.
So, double spin, uncapped all-rounder, and a pitch made out of memory foam.
At least the punchy bogan has yet to lean that T20 batting rarely works in test matches...
36/1
Rain and all, going to be interesting. The boss is over in Adelaide (a Scotsman so no idea about cricket) and was surprised to find not much accommodation left...
The boss is over in Adelaide (a Scotsman so no idea about cricket) and was surprised to find not much accommodation left...
I wonder why....
Got tickets for Sunday and can't wait. Pity I didn't manage to pull off tickets for all five days like I did last year. Also a pity England haven't pulled off what they did three years ago too.
MONTY TO BAMBOOZLE THEM oops on caps lock
MONTY TO BAMBOOZLE THEM
One hopes...
Got tickets for Sunday and can't wait.
Day 4? hoping you get to go....
109-1 halfway through the second session tells me that I will....
