[Closed] Armstrongs bubble soon to burst?

Aye. Love how it cameback with the intention to win the Leadville.

On the contrary it's about winning because he has to. Utterly driven by the need to win, not the desire to win.

For the flat-earthers.....

[url= http://www.sportsscientists.com/2010/07/cycling-performance-what-is-possible.html ]"Now, is it possible to ride at 81.96 ml/kg/min for almost 40 minutes? If you are at 90% of maximum, then it means that the VO2max must be equal to 91.07 ml/kg/min. If you are at 85% of maximum, then the maximum must be 96.42 ml/kg/min. Given that by the time these performances happen, the cyclist has been in the saddle for five hours, not to mention about 2 weeks before, I feel pretty safe in saying that you're projecting a VO2max that lies somewhere between 91 and 96 ml/kg/min, probably closer to 96 ml/kg/min.

Another example comes from Armstrong's own words. In this interview, he says "I also cranked out 495 watts for more than 30 minutes". 495 W is about 7W/kg, and applying the same equations as I've done throughout this post, you can work out that it requires oxygen consumption of 87 ml/kg/min, and a VO2max of 97 ml/kg/min (and that's at 90% of maximum. If you go with 85%, you get 103 ml/kg/min...).

Is that realistic? I suspect that your answer to that question depends not on what you know, but rather on what you want to believe. I don't believe that it is possible, because the combination of high efficiency (and 23% is high) and high VO2max doesn't seem to exist. In fact, Lucia et al showed that there was an inverse relationship, so that those with the best efficiency had the lowest VO2max. So the problem is that if you suggest that we increase the efficiency to make the predicted VO2max come down, you're chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, because the possible VO2max is coming down anyway!

However, people will draw their own conclusions. I am of the opinion, like Prof Aldo Sassi, that a value above 6.2 W/kg is indicative of doping. And in the coming weeks, I will post more on this, including graphs that hopefully illustrate this point even more clearly. But, as always, there is likely to be debate."[/url]

For Lance its about winning, because he can.

sure he can

But getting up & winning day after day in long stage races takes something extra [EPO usually]

I believed it cameback with the intention of fighting cancer

But getting up & winning day after day in long stage races takes something extra [EPO usually]

So now you are saying everyone in the pelaton today is doing this then?

So now you are saying everyone in the pelaton today is doing this then?

didn't realise everyone in the peleton was winning

Following on from iDave:

Lance Armstrong's VO2 MAx was 85ml/kg/min at it's best.

There is no way a clean athlete could beat doped athletes of the class of Ulrich, Basso etc for 7 consecutive years.

Sorry Hora, he used to be a role model of mine as well, but now I just cannot see how he was clean.

Read Davis Walsh's book and make your own mind up.

jesus hora, read the post before you reply!

Whilst I might assume LA doped it still doesn't change the joy, as a huge LA fan, that I felt at him winning the first 4 TDF's. I must admit it got a bit dull after that.

His comeback, for the DA's (Dirty Astana's my personal nickname), was not such a great thing but I loved watching his Leadville races on cyclingfans and that he annoyed Contador was good.

The Peloton does appear to be cleaning up tho' with the no doping & no needle cultures of certain teams (assuming it's true of course) 🙂 Nothing is certain in cycling.

I don't believe there has been a clean TDF winner ever. They are all at it.

What do you mean by "at it" ?

Sorry Hora, he used to be a role model of mine as well, but now I just cannot see how he was clean.

Of course, if Lance doped and everyone else doped, it still makes him the best of the bunch...

If you look back at his record, he didn't show that much in the one day classics - his focus was always on the Tour. Add to that a team that was focused on one single objective - putting Lance on the top podium in Paris, and it's not hard to see why he won the Tour so often. Even his greatest rivals; Ullrich and the like, never seemed to get the same focus in their team. T Mobile often spent the first week trying to put Erik Zabel in Green, while USPS just rolled along keeping Lance out of trouble. If I remember correctly, there was one Tour where he didn't win anything other than a TT stage, but still took yellow in Paris.

All in all, I think the argument from his palmares is far less clear cut than people sometimes suggest. It should also raise legitimate questions about Indurain and Merckx - they were both dominant over a much wider range of races in a period when doping was commonplace as well.

Weird. Like the football fans now need to be experts on corporate management and finance to follow their sport, it seems you need to be an expert on doping and law to enjoy watching people race bicycles on a road.

I never want to have cancer or survive afterwards. I'm sure I'd be a shadow of my former self. The man is a ray to others around the world.

Go and shit on someone elses role model.

I had cancer, also in 96, I took some inspiration from what he was doing but wouldnt call him a role model, I was already back on my back and racing before he was out of chemo. Saying that I was a fan of armstrongs since I saw him in the tour of britain (with ponytail!!), and watched amazed when in 99 he started winning - but it soon became clear watching subsequent tours that there was some assistance... The rumours were around as far back as 2000/2001. Did I feel cheated no, will i be glad if hes found guilty - no, but there will be a lot of people around the world who will be very angry..

Pro cycling is like sausages; I like sausages, but I don't want to know how they're made...

Not going to comment on LA's guilt or otherwise as without proof he is innocent regardless of my personal view but I don't really think it would have been a level playing field. There's likely to have been clean athletes coming home in insignificant (if you can say that about finishing a three week tour) positions that might otherwise have been top ten/twenty and could have had significantly different careers because of it.

Anyone in that position has certainly been cheated.

like Chris Boardman.

i wonder what Simeoni thinks about all this now?

Dates are approximate.
4/11/10 Popovych forced to testify to Grand Jury. Claimed no knowledge of doping programs.
13/11/10 Popovych house raided by Italian police.
18/11/10 FDA officials reported in Europe gathering evidence.

All quiet until today - SI reports PEDs, evidence of Ferrari links etc. found at Popovych house. Popovych has ridden on three Armstrong teams since 2005. Perjury before grand jury is a serious offence. Do you think Popovych will go to prison for Armstrong?

Strong words here:

http://nieuwsuur.nl/video/210778-dopingdetective-jaagt-op-armstrong.html

Some in Dutch....

Off warm weather training in Majorca in March, should I try the meat?

Edit - not sure where original ling came from....

I ve read a few of the books mentioned lance to landis bad blood kimmages book, however it seems that there are a number of questions that require answering, However there was an article in pro cycling suggesting the LA now has a duty never to come clean too much charity money coming in too many people seeing him of what's possible when fighting the big C. If hes caught then all this disappears in smoke. Is that worth him losing a jersey to a second place chap who was likely doped too?

Doped or not to win seven tours on the trot is amazing, the epo or what ever is really only magnifying what's naturally there.

Personally I think re-transfusing your own blood mid stage to keep( fresh hence the very stable hemrocrate (sp) levels )throughout the tour seems to be the new epo or doping system. That's how contrador has been caught out with the residue of plastics in his blood more damming than the traces of the drug in my mind.

I do hope guess it's the kid orfan in me he is never proven dirty however

Either way what an amazing competitor and for all the reports a vicious chap to cross on or off the bike, I'd like to meet him but I guess he would be my sort of chap people that driven in my experience are often not warm and fuzzy.

Think it is widely accepted that Boardman was clean, as was Mottet. Boardman quickly faded at top level trying to hang with the top men yet clearly he had a good engine (tt's / hour record??). Mottet never really reached the dizzy heights despite being thereabouts.

Lemond, who knows? Look at his palmares though...he was awesome as a junior right through, and epo wasnt really about right up to when he retired. Watch Lemond in Chambery. He was 'kin awesome.

Indurain ?? All I remember is an EPO'd Riis destroy Indurain on hautacam. (4.20 onwards)

When you look at who LA has beat, and the sheer number of his contemporaries (team leaders and domestiques) that have tested positive, then its almost impossible to believe he was clean.

Look at Armstrong in his pomp. Destroying riders like Ullrich, Mayo, Pantani, Virenque like they are 3rd cats.

Even Liggett cant believe it.

Sorry but its just too good to be true. Legend....he isnt even the best cyclist to come out of America.