[Closed] Arming the police...

What a reputable news source that isn't....

Problem?

If we accept there is a need for Armed Response Units (which I think most people do) then why shouldn't they be given decent guns?

Do you really have nothing better to do than to post this sort of trolling shite ?

Don't come running to me when you're riddled with holes after a disagreement about a parking ticket!

30,000 Assault rifles is enough to go a long way to replacing the SA80.

What are they doing, creating a new army?

EDIT: The MOD are procuring a weapon in partnership with the police which they can replace the SA80 in certain front line battalions. I'm guessing this is being done because it will increase the availability of spare parts and ease of maintenance if the armed forces and the civilian forces use the same weapon.

Pffft.. it's not like they are taking control of the roads...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-18719962

😉

If we accept there is a need for Armed Response Units (which I think most people do) then why shouldn't they be given decent guns?

I can't see a problem with firearms units having good guns,it would sort of defeat the point if they had to use flintlocks...

The link posted by grahams seems a bit of an over reaction to someone pouring their soup out of a thermos...may be it was an olympic bus and you are only allowed to consume mcdonalds products.

Not on my watch.

I'm not having this country turn into a despotic totalitarian hellhole with armed police, like the Netherlands or Denmark.

Armed police would terrify the British public, there's a good reason why Brits refuse to go on holiday to places like Spain, France, Italy, the United States and Australia.

bit of an over reaction to someone pouring their soup out of a thermos.

😆 Love the very British reporting of it.

Possible terrorist attack you say? How's the traffic looking?

Peace through superior fire power FTW

Never mind all that gun nonsense, check out this quote from the BBC news story above.

Police said the coach stopped on the hard shoulder "of its own accord" at 0820 BST.

Some men in white coats over in Switzerland are getting all excited over subatomic particles, but here in Preston we've got a gods damned [i]sentient bus![/i]

there's a good reason why Brits refuse to go on holiday to places like Spain, France, Italy, the United States and Australia.

I doubt the Police being armed is a main reason why some people don't go abroad.

That article seems deliberately brief, they're not taking about arming every office they'll be looking for a standard rifle for armed response units I would think.

That article is great! The assumption that "battlefield weapons" will be used to supress protesters is a superb piece of assumption!

As a pinko liberal vegetarian public sector union rep environmentalist, I'd like my armed police to have the best weapons possible. Using firearms in a built up area, with the focus being on situation management and containment rather than "nuke em from orbit" tactics requires a high degree of accuracy, but situations can change quickly. Police fire arms teams effetivley need to be snipers, close contact infantry, rapid extraction teams rolled into one. A weapon that covers all those bases would be a huge benefit.

Also the army could do with new guns as the SA80's and variants are on the whole a bit crap.

(police up here have big guns anyway!)

Fair enough but why on earth do they need C8s when L85s are considered good enough for war zones?

Because the L85 is a heavy, badly arranged weapon that has appalling ergonomics and a dire trigger.

I would much rather have/use a C8/AR-15 based weapon (even with the shorter barrel and therefore slightly worse accuracy at longer ranges) than the L85 for just about every type of situation I can think of, especially as those clever chaps at H&K have developed a version that is effectively modular.

Police fire arms teams effetivley need to be snipers, close contact infantry, rapid extraction teams rolled into one

Hahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Hahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Because the L85 is a heavy, badly arranged weapon that has appalling ergonomics and a dire trigger.

I would much rather have/use a C8/AR-15 based weapon (even with the shorter barrel and therefore slightly worse accuracy at longer ranges) than the L85 for just about every type of situation I can think of, especially as those clever chaps at H&K have developed a version that is effectively modular.

Me too. BUT if it's good enough for the boys to use against multiple enemy in afghanistan in dire conditions, then it must be considered good enough for plod to shoot civilians from 20 meters in the wirral?

Special Air Service uses in its high-profile operations.

High profile operations? Really?

Shock - Police buy equipment that works! That is news.

Lots of ARU use H&K G36 variants, a 5.56 calibre weapon system. The C8/sfw/L119a1 is also a 5.56 calibre weapon system. Same round so no difference to penetration/risk to others than before.
SFSG and both Poole & Credenhill make use of the C8 in large numbers and hve done for a good few years. Most likely cheaper to go down a joint procurement/maintenance route than to keep the H&K stuiff running or replace the now ageing MP5 range used by some forces.
So probably cheaper, both as a weapon system and to maintain. Little retraining needed and no real difference in the force applied.
Meh.

Why do the armed police want C8's?

Because deep down they're all just a bunch of 'them' Walts of course 😉

The public has not threatened their government or police in a way that could possibly warrant this. Neither have the fictitious so called terrorists. This is more like a premeditated intent to murder thousands of civilians. Shame on you Ministry of Offense

Ooookaaaaay. Does that tye-dye shirt itch at all? 😯

OOooohhhh! (Frankie Howard) New toys ... 😆

Looks like a better gun too.

As for police carrying guns what's wrong with that? You mean you prefer them to carrying those Victorian Police baton? ... LOL! Well, if the society has a Victorian mindset then yes police baton. Otherwise, ya shoot a few ...

For what it's worth, and having lived in the US and Italy as well as Britain, I probably accept the need for armed response units, but arming the generality of police scares me. Italian caribineri in particular are scary people.

This is more like a premeditated intent to murder thousands of civilians.

[img] [/img]

unless scuzz is also called bruce that was a quote from the Iranian propaganda outlet

Kill em all, let god sort em out. Police or criminals, i'm not fussy.

Edit- MegaLOLZ at GrahamS

Edit Edit- Need Captain Hindsight as well, with the powers of 20/20 hindsight- he can see exactly what [b]should[/b] have been done! (Can't claim credit for that, South Park have that one. The episode is class.)

igm - Member
... but arming the generality of police scares me.

LOL! Are you criminal minded? Are you slowly developing the urge of doing something bad? Are getting a bit violence? Do you think you have criminal intention?

Look! Behind you! The Italian caribineri ... 😆

Ya, I think I ask them to "talk" to you hopefully their partners Benelli M4 will be there to show some support to.

Italian caribineri in particular are scary people.

Ya, obviously Italy is such a peaceful civilise country with friendly mafia that warrant baton carrying Victorian Police. Imagine if the Italian police are carrying baton ... bet the mafia with throw pizza at them ...

unless scuzz is also called bruce that was a quote from the Iranian propaganda outlet

As for police carrying guns what's wrong with that?

Because they aren't responsible enough?

Proof?

The Policeman that executed de Menezes on the tube train is still working in the same role I believe. Now, I certainly don't think the Policeman was to blame for the murder of de Menezes, the blame lies higher up the chain of command. The Policemen did everything we required of him.

But, the way I see it, that Policemen is now in one of two states of mind. Either he's perfectly comfortable with having executed a complete innocent in terrifying circumstances, or he's very sorry. In either case, is this really the short of mental state that we should be relying upon to pull the trigger (or not) at the right time? He should have remained at full pay, but transferred to a non-firearm job.

I once heard some high up Police bod interviewed saying he can get officers firearms trained in a week. WTF, I wouldn't shoot on a well controlled cold range with someone that only had one weeks training, let alone trust them in public with a firearm!

Because deep down they're all just a bunch of 'them' Walts of course

BINGO!
The big timing walts want some sexy kit so they can get some jive phots for facebook.

The rozzers don't need C8's. They'll all have their selector switches fixed so that they can only be fired single shot anyway and as such the rozzers don't need c8s.
If we're going for cost/economy of scale, the L85 will be best for this.
UKSF are by no means the only ones issued with the C8 either.

The question I always have, when it comes to routinely arming all police officers, is will they train everyone up to the current standards, or lower the standards so that everyone can pass? The first of which I suspect is impossible.

And even with the current standards they kill people.

But somehow "good" people killing innocent bystanders is Ok, it's just "bad" people killing innocent bystanders we worry about.

Feel free to substitute shoot for kill in the above it you prefer.

Another big problem is keeping the training up. I'm in the TA (no laughing at the back) and I shoot with the Army a fair bit, quite a lot by normal TA standards actually, and I know from experience that people that do the minimum training for their qualification are _usually_ not that competent in their weapons handling*.

If all police were armed and only had to qualify once a year, which is possible, then I would seriously worry at the level of skill that would be developed and maintained within the rank and file, especially given the lack of budget for training and practice that I am pretty certain would be enforced.

It would be worse with pistols too. Short weapons are a lot more dangerous to the people that are around you than rifles are and, whilst I can see an argument for allowing expansion of less lethal weapons within the police, I would not want to see expansion of the use of pistols for the same reasons as above.

If a specialist skillset like ARU is kept to a small, highly trained and maintained group, then they will be safer and better able to carry out their duties.

* - some people can keep up their skills between qualifications, but they will _not_ be as good as someone that does things regularly and often.

(erm... when did this become a story about arming ALL police? 😕 )

Arming [i]all[/i] police was first mentioned in the post immediately above your photo, that's where it veered off.

CS
Pepper
Tazers

Yes.

Guns. No.

CS
Pepper
Tazers

Yes.

Guns. No.

[img] [/img]

Have the police in Northern Ireland not been routinely armed for decades with no big problems? So why couldn't it work in the UK? I don't buy the idea that the Uk police are unique in the worlds police forces that they couldn't be trained to use firearms properly.

Though actually I would prefer more ARVs to routine arming of all cops. The criminals have guns so the police need them.

You guys are ****ing ****s and that's all there is to it.

* The L85A2's are ****ed. They've been battered to death in the sands of Afghanistan and Iraq. They are coming to the end of their service lives within the next decade.

* We do not produce L85's anymore, we only have a limited stock of supplies to rebuild the weapons. Consequently giving the police army surplus hand me downs is out of the question.

* L85's even in the A2 guise are a ****ing pain, they're not ambidextrous, they don't collapse down like C8's, they're heavy, they're prone to muzzle climb etc etc

* The MOD want to slowly phase out the L85 and so are procuring a new weapon.

* The police are not entirely happy with their G36's, which they bought in small batches for high costs.

* The police want to be able to replace their ageing weapons with a weapon that is deemed fit for purpose by the MOD. The Army/Navy will put the weapons through selection and they will most likely do a better job of selecting the best weapon than the police could do alone.

* Buying in bulk with the MOD, will save the police a fortune. Currently they have wasted a lot of money buying small batches of various different weapons.

* Having the same weapons as the military will allow easier interforces training.

* The L85A2's are ****. They've been battered to death in the sands of Afghanistan and Iraq.

We do not produce L85's anymore, we only have a limited stock of suppliers to rebuild the weapons. Consequently giving the police army surplus hand me downs is out of the question.

* L85's even in the A2 guise are a **** pain, they're not ambidextrous, they don't collapse down like C8's, they're heavy, they're prone to muzzle climb etc etc

* The MOD want to slowly phase out the L85 and so are procuring a new weapons.

CS, Taser & Pepper to deal with crims with guns, where do you sign I'm in. When they let me out of hospital that is.