[Closed] Are we getting far too over-sensitive about 'racial' issues?

Pick a fight from your armchair without actually having a clue WTF you are talking about.

He is one of the few who actually gets off his arse in the real world and campaigns for what he beliefs in
that was so wide of the mark

Zulu, I think we all realise that you and the BNP would make far better bedfellows than them and anybody on the "left".

Do you think they would have protected you from the racism hell you implied you've endured in the past if they had more power?

Only last week the BNP mayoral candidate in Liverpool had to have his front door smashed in by the police because he refused to cooperate with them concerning an investigation into electoral fraud.

So, that makes the allegations that they were making several years ago regards organised gangs of asian males seducing and raping underage white girls untrue does it?

Edit - darcy, see you've resorted to nonsense again 🙄

Mods, do the decent thing would you? Thanks.

Are they going to stop you making glib points on threads you disapprove off?
Christ all you will have left then is to tell us about your fantasy life and friday [s]soft porn[/s] an appreciation of physical form

Z-11 no but it would mean the claim to zero tolerance of crime is bollocks...just like your misrepresentation of what was said /discussed...you are getting desperate here.

DD stop just you mentioning it all has left him with fuzzy thinking

DD please tell me you save threads just like he does and you can quote him 😀

hey hey hey CFH - there's absolutely nothing wrong whatsoever with a bit of good old fashioned BNP bashing..

moronic deviants that they are

Edit - darcy, see you're resorted to nonsense again

😉

Not at all Zulu. Have you made your point yet?

Actually, flashy has the best idea.

So, that makes the allegations that they were making several years ago regards organised gangs of asian males seducing and raping underage white girls untrue does it Ernie?

😀 Are you taking your medication Z-11 ?

the racism hell you implied you've endured in the past

Is that what Z-11 has claimed ? I've missed that one, although tbh I rarely much of what Z-11 posts. Was it because of his Irish origins ?

pretty sure it was the Diane Abbott twitter one but i dont have a link I just rely on memory.

Another 'by the way' - things keep occurring to me after I have hit 'post' - a bit like all those things you wished you'd said at the time..........

Please never confuse an attempt to 'understand' with an attempt to 'justify' - even a little bit.

In my previous post I mentioned the 'warrior gene' as a very likely cause of psychopathy. And yes, some cynical bastards have already attempted to forward evidence of this gene in the accused as some kind of mitigation. To me this is not relevent - the justice system has, to my mind a clear set of principles which diminish in priority as you go down the list:

1. To protect the law abiders from crime - by taking criminals out of society.

2. To punish the criminal so that society can say that some form of justice has been served.

3. To reform the offender, but ONLY in the interest of point 1 above - not for any intrinsic benefit to the offender.

I am not morally averse to the death penalty, my only qualm on it is that it is too ultimate a sanction - there will always be a case where the wrong person is executed, and this cannot be allowed to happen.

So, I'm not just trying to overtalk simple issues like some pub bore, I'm advocating understanding as a means of crime prevention and I'm not squeamish about who 'gets a bit' upset as a result.

I think Darc is referring to my answer here Ernie

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/scottish-independence-hmm-a-thought/page/3#post-3365797

Though, obviously its as nothing compared to the fact that you:

know what being young black living and in New Addington means

🙄

Nope not interested in the BNP, but lets exemplify Tories and Labour who have been arrested just for balance shall we.

As for being wide of the mrk not from where I am sitting. As not taking a balanced view and suggesting political party "A" is bad because of X.

As for having criminal convidtions well I am sure many MPs have, such as speeding. I suggest you look at the manifesto before you suggest its all crap. As with any political party. There is a lot of good and bad. What they actually deliver is usually very different. But dont make blanket statements you cant back up.

Anyway there is a gang mentality in this forum having seen several posts, if the views dont fit with certain individuals it turns into a gang ****.

As for the OP "Are we getting far too over-sensitive about 'racial' issues?" Yes we are, there are issues within a great deal of communities which are race related and scarcely anyone will admmit to it. Those issues range from policing, forced marriages, rape etc. And that is all colours of skin not just white or balck but asian aswell.

Personally it would be great to all get along but we cant even accept a different viewpoint without bullying in the forum. A positive attitude would be to accept people who had a different view point to yourselves rather than labelling that viewpoint as wrong. Ever thought for one minute that it may be you thats wrong.

@ pingu66

Absolutely.

I think it might be time to remember the case that originally hatched this topic before people use the thread to score points off of each other.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/diane-abbott-im-surprised-it-has-taken-a-year/page/10

no pretty sure I was right I am now off to get a life and follow the advice mark gave on that thread

Ever thought for one minute that it may be you thats wrong.

Immagonna join JY. 😐

Why do people offer an opinion in a forum, then feel "bullied" because other people dispute that opinion?

Zulu-Eleven - Member

Though, obviously its as nothing compared to the fact that you:

know what being young black living and in New Addington means

You seriously are a nasty piece of work Z-11.

Your ability to dig up an 8 month old quote and use it out of context betrays just how low you will stoop.

Still, I guess it takes all sorts to make the world.

DannyH I think thats what goes on far too often around here. Certain individuals posturing etc. A comment from me ref BNP and all of a sudden I love the BNP. Well thats not what I said. As for JY, ernie et al, it would be good focus and stay on topic rather than veer off and try to "score points". There has been alot of bullying in this thread purely because people disagree with others.

Personally I dont mind a healthy debate but my views are my views.

Indeed I agree with some of the sentiment from JYs last post that the BNP come across like that and have done themselves so much harm by their actions. My comment was they have some good policies, not I support them etc. The BNP present themsleves as odious morons, but some of their policies are OK. The way they are means they will never get anywhere.

But that was a side show for the "usual suspects" to flex their muscle completely off topic, as are many of the thread links.

Should we recognise a racial element in these crimes, Yes we should. Does it make it worse, yes it does as it appears that the authorities dont see it. Now thats my take, I may be wrong but I will stand by it. Is it cultural, possibly.

Bad "lilly livered liberal" stuff, defending the indefensible, changing our own culture, even as far as not being able to Christmas and fly our own flag due to "racial" sensetivities, when the only people getting their knickers in a twist are usually councils and "lilly livered liberals"

Sorry why is flying your own flag, or not being able to pathetic. Equally lets all have a Winter festival.

.
.

You do realise neither of those things actually happened don't you ?

You just heard about them and believed them without checking.

Urban myths both of them.

Just popped my head in and surprise surprise Ernies calling people 'Nasty peices of work' again because they don't support his 'rose tinted specatcled we all live together happily' view of the world.

You are just a bully Ernie.

How do you explain the fact that this has abuse of children been allowed to carry on for years unchecked even though the BNP (shock, horror, don't you dare mention those people in here) flagged it up as early as 2001???? No don't answer that I'm not interested as I won't read anything on here again.
http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/muslim-paedophile-gangs-have-been-operating-%E2%80%9Cdecades%E2%80%9D-admits-former-police-chief

Never mind, must be part of their culture and we should respect that eh Ernie? I think you should move in next to them, it will be lovely for you.

You are just a bully Ernie.

That's your opinion mate.

And you Oxboy, are a self-confessed supporter of the BNP........never was there a bigger bunch of bullies than fascists like the BNP.

So if you feel "bullied" by me, I really couldn't be happier 8)

Oh btw, how do you feel about your party getting 1.3% of the vote in the London mayoral election last Thursday ?

And wiped out throughout the country.

Good eh ? 😀

A comment from me ref BNP and all of a sudden I love the BNP. Well thats not what I said. As for JY, ernie et al, it would be good focus and stay on topic rather than veer off and try to "score points". There has been alot of bullying in this thread purely because people disagree with others.

Some people disagree with you it will happen especially when the issue is as emotive as the BNP and you started it.

I wont rule out a racist element but the lilly livered liberal element have made a rod for everyones backs. Some BNP policy is good, however the motivation is not.

Clearly like any bunch of racists or conspiracy theorists the bnp have to have an element of truth at their heart. Its my opinion that being open about the problems in this country that people can move forward. If we can say "is there a problem with white girls being abused by asian men" without resorting to racist views or political posturing then we can look for answers. It seems we in stw land cant and I doubt the country as a whole can either. Its my view that the question should be why are white girls more vulnerable as evil people occur in all groups.

Clearly like any bunch of racists or conspiracy theorists the bnp have to have an element of truth at their heart.

At the very heart of racists such as the BNP ideology, is the belief that all people and races aren't equal, after all, that is the definition of a racist, there is not the slightest element of truth in that.

The whole ideology is based on a lie.

Yes true but in order to draw in support the need to be able to bring some elements of truth or peoples perceptions of truth in. Its how they work, find a crack and then hammer a wedge into it.

Ah OK, If you mean that racist such as the BNP sometimes use half-truths to further their agenda, then yes I'll go along with that. But I think it's important to understand that the whole racist ideology is based on a lie

So to over extend my tenuous analogy its only by admitting wherre the cracks are we can fill them in not make them wider. Racists will always be racist but by being open and honest we can remove there support amongst the stupid and easily led.

the belief that all people and races aren't equal, after all, that is the definition of a racist, there is not the slightest element of truth in that.

Hmmmmmn.

[img] [/img]

That'll be a coincidence then will it?

Nowt to do with genetics at all? the Kalenjin tribe don't dominate the sport of long distance running for any reason but coincidence?

I must have a look at the olympic 100 metre sprint finals and wonder if there's anything in the whole "all races are equal" thing!

I think that it would be more accurate to say that racism was the belief that somebody should be treated differently, or was of less worth to society, based upon their race.

Zulu you are really struggling now arent you.

Yeah, really struggling, its [b]so[/b] difficult to pick holes with an argument thats more simplistic and full of holes than a junior school homework assignment.

Guess what, statistically black people a have bigger average penis size than white people, there, I'm a racist, woo-and indeed-hoo!

but by being open and honest we can remove there support amongst the stupid and easily led.

Well of course. I am frequently "open and honest" that the open door policy of allowing restriction-free immigration from newer EU member states has imo been a disastrous mistake.

And I'm aware that less than honest people are likely to call me a racist for suggesting it. In much the same way that Gordon Brown famously accused a Labour supporting member of the public of being a "bigot" for saying the same thing.

Even commitment to withdrawal from the EU and by people such as myself, is sometimes as portrayed racist - simply because of UKIP's inherently racist character.

But it is precisely because of my unflinching anti-racism that I feel happy and comfortable to be "open and honest" about such matters.

There is a universal belief that all people are equal, even though some are taller or run faster than others, of you feel that you can "pick holes" in that claim Zulu-Eleven, then you are indeed struggling. In fact you sound desperate.

There is a universal belief that all people are equal, even though some are taller or run faster than others

So, are some people more likley to be involved in certain types of crime then? or is that racist?

Yep, desperate.

oh dear Ernie, your argument has been holed underwater by your own arrogance, how suprising 🙄

Back to the original case. As I sadly expected, the crime of these perverted bastards is being overshadowed by the racial element.

These men got together and decided to commit crimes. They picked on the weakest and most available girls they could, who they (correctly) believed wouldn't be believed or supported if they went to the authorities. The connection between these men might be ethnicity, it might be that they all live close by each other, it might be because they're mostly involved in the taxi trade. None of us know the true linkages, but blaming the police for being too soft on Asians - which is what's being implied by several of the posters here - is the easy answer.

The real shame is that women are not listened to, and that paedophile gangs do exist. Mostly, they're white, because that's the overwhelmingly prevalent racial type in the UK. But rather then get furious about the evil that such men do, and the inept job the authorities do in bringing rapists to justice, it's just so much easier to say 'yeah, it's those Asians, they don't respect our white women’. This then fuels the BNP and their ilk to rail on about immigration, the evils of Islam, and whether or not we’re free to fly the flag of St George (a Syrian, by the way).

The reality is that we – as a society – don’t sufficiently respect women. The girls in this case were mostly in care, and were not properly looked after by the care authorities. These were girls who had gone off the rails and should have been treated as the damaged individuals they were, and those charged with their care clearly didn’t take that seriously enough. We should be turning our anger onto these people, venting our fury at the police for not listening, and demanding why the CPS didn’t prosecute earlier.

The cop-out response to this case is to blame the men who look different or come from some other place for their colour or religion rather than for their crimes, to wave the flag, and to say that we’d expect all those horrible darkies to do terrible things to our lovely chaste white girls. So much harder to accept that we have a real problem with sexual crime, and that mostly, we choose to ignore it.

Shame on us all if we fail to properly learn lessons from this.

So, are some people more likley to be involved in certain types of crime then? or is that racist?

Dont know you tell me, can you untangle that from socio-economic factors?

can you untangle that from socio-economic factors

This is exactly the problem.. the racist brain is too under developed to understand anything more complex than visual differences..

It tries but just becomes confused and angry and insecure..

Like a cornered animal it lashes out to defend itself in the face of such utterly overwhelming superiority and is consumed by fear and hate..
I used to think that the racist should be pitied or could be educated but it is becoming increasingly clear that there is no hope for it as a species..

ooh, a Genotype/Phenotype discussion, that could be an interesting soujourn...

can you untangle that from socio-economic factors?

I watched a documentary years ago about how the study of genetic pre-disposition had been basically destroyed by the "scientific" studies the Nazis did about eugenics and that scientists did their best to avoid race as a driver from a genetic PoV and left it to people from a sociology background as it concentrated on the socio-economic factors and learned behaviour. It's clear to most people that PHYSICAL traits are part of our genes and then we exploit them or ignore them based on choice or environment.

Predictably, racist elements concentrate on the behaviour and try to make people believe that the problem is people's race and never bother to point out that when people of different races do bad things, it's not down to race so much as their lives. So to return to the recent issue in the news, the question really is whether the larger than expected number of asian gangs involved in this (in proportion to the size of population) is because they're asian or because they're scum because of something they CHOSE to do.

I think I know which I believe to be true.

Double post edit

ooh, a Genotype/Phenotype discussion, that could be an interesting soujourn...

no a discussion of socio-economic factors and crime, can you provide any proof that any group is more prone to crime when socio economics is removed from the analysis?

Zulu-Eleven - Member
Guess what, statistically black people a have bigger average penis size than white people

Aah, I'm starting to get an idea of why you think the way you do.

Never mind, I'm assured that it's all about the motion in the ocean and all that...............

My take on this is that this group probably targetted young white lasses because they would be less likely to be found out by their own community. Not sure what it's like elsewhere, but northern ****stani communities tend to be extremely insular, with little or no interaction with people from 'outside', including the police. To me, that would make it an opportunistic crime rather than a 'racist' one. I'm probably viewing this in a bit of a simplistic way, but please, correct me if I'm wrong. Had to laugh at one of the posts on here describing an emphasis on law and order being part of the bnp's manifesto - as an ex trade unionist and involvement in cnd, etc, in the 80's and 90's, I found myself recieving a fair bit of unwanted attention from various right wing groups, including having my name and contact details put on 'redwatch'. Law and order my arse, they're just racist tossbags.