Are there more ars*h*les in the hills now?

Yep. All a bit depressing really. Though just got back from a ride on the outskirts of Sheffield and everyone was pleasant, didn’t see any litter in the usual spots and only real blot was the remnants of the big moorland fire from the week from chuffers with a disposable BBQ on peat moorland.

The world is full of arseholes. Always has been, always will be.

Luckily, they’re a minority. Despite what the Daily Mail and social media would have us believe, most people are nice and just want to potter around in the least conspicuous way possible

Modern life just gives the arseholes greater and more noticeable ways to be arseholes

If disposable barbecues were readily available for 2 quid a pop at every garage and supermarket 30 years ago, the moors would have been ablaze every year then too

If disposable barbecues were readily available for 2 quid a pop at every garage and supermarket 30 years ago, the moors would have been ablaze every year then too

This is true. We've reduced the value of a lot of things so that they are disposable.

But I do think 30 years ago more folk had a basic awareness of themselves and thier actions...

For sure. We're getting all that plus heaps of quads. Quads chasing Dear with big dogs around my partner's school fields is my particular highlight.

General don't give a toss attitude is more acceptable.

I mean, clearly lockdown opened up the countryside in many ironic ways and people found new places. That's part of it plus I think Tory 'culture' is rubbing off on people. 'We can get away with anything.'

Definitely agree with you.

Awful. It's making me dislike my area which is full of fabulous riding.

Oh, way way more fly-tipping here too.

(Also for even more messy analysis - I think the whole culture war; GBnews, Talk radio etc basically creating intolerance amongst us is feeding in too.)

People need good jobs, prospects and social schemes. This is going to take some time to turn around.

****s everywhere. If you don't like what they're doing you're a snowflake or woke.

Yes I think there are. There was an increase in people venturing into the countryside during lockdown ('cos "stay local"). I had thought they would all sod off back to Blackpool afterwards but sadly that doesn't seem to be the case.

When I was a kid in the 70s we were taught the 'countryside code' at school and cubs/scouts.  On telly too - regular public info ads about littering and the countryside code etc.  I'm deffo not a rose tinted spec wearing nostalgia freak.  Things are better now in many ways, but a bit more education about stuff like this wouldn't go amiss.

). I had thought they would all sod off back to Blackpool afterwards but sadly that doesn’t seem to be the case.

This - there just not going back to the town centres these days.

Just from my own experience talking to my daughters (16 & 19) and their friends then they’re about a squillion times more conscious of environmental concerns than we ever were.

It’s also difficult to be critical when you spent the 90’s ripped to the tits on weapons grade MDMA at all nighters in fields and warehouses. I doubt the aftermath of that looked too pretty but there weren’t any Facebook groups to post pictures up and be suitably outraged about it all then

I even reported kids going up the street with guns (not covered up) - air-rifles (which are firearms) going into the woods shooting blindly.

Rang cops - "how do you know it was a gun?"

In my youth - I reported this once and an armed response team came out and took away three lads.

To be fair I did sit next to a bloke in Moab out with his family and he'd got his gun in his holster with him. Lmfao.

But I do think 30 years ago more folk had a basic awareness of themselves and thier actions…

I’m not so sure. My feeling is that folk just have more money so more cars and disposable income to go places and buy stuff.

I couldn't believe the amount of litter dropped @ trail heads especially cyb.

Yes... absolutely everywhere. I'm absolutely all for encourage folk to use the outdoors, but they need to be respectful - COVID seems to have introduced a load of 'new' people into the outdoors and they don't give a monkeys about how they treat it or leave it.

It isn't just COVID as it has been happening for years, but I genuinely dispair when I see the state people leave the outdoors.

I've said it before on other threads (and been shot down for it) but the people who started mountain biking in the 80s/90s seem to be the minority but have the most respect for the outdoors (in MTB circles). Plenty of other people who spend time.outdoors (who also MTB) also have respect for the outdoors but the new kids here now that seem to think they can build stuff anywhere and everywhere without seeking permission, those skidding all over the place for no real need and those just leaving all their litter...it is a shameful example of disrespect.

Stopping before I properly rant about it...

Just from my own experience talking to my daughters (16 & 19) and their friends then they’re about a squillion times more conscious of environmental concerns than we ever were.

They probably are, and yet, overwhelmingly, it's groups of young people that leave the most litter in the parks near me with their little shindigs.

Disposable BBQs need banning now, as does McDonald's 😊

I think a lot of people expect their shit to be cleared up by someone in the countryside much like they do/did at Blackpool or wherever.
Obviously it doesn't work like that.

This morning, picking up around the starting mound in the jump area of a big mountain bike area built locally to me.

There are more folk in the countryside. The percentage of arseholes is probably about the same. Do the maths.

Disposable BBQs need banning now

I thought they were going to be banned after a series of horrific injuries on beaches

There are more folk. The percentage of arseholes is probably about the same. Do the maths.

But the countryside is much more accessible to a greater percentage of people than it used to be and social media encourages people to go visit

I was thinking about this the other day, in the 70's I remember the ever present keep britain tidy campaign and the effect it slowly had on the country. It still exists I think but needs a reboot.

Driving up along many many roads the verges are just a shitstorm of litter, miles and miles of it.

I made a pledge to always pick up a piece of litter when I am out - even at work I am always picking up rubbish though.

And i'm old enough to remember thinking france had a litter problem.

Disposable BBQs need banning now, as does McDonald’s 😊

While I agree about the barbies, imagine all the hungover people in the world unable to access double sausage and egg McMuffins?

Be careful what you wish for. You might inadvertently usher in the end of days

Thirty years ago I went to Loch Lomond for the first time, and was amazed that families would just walk away leaving their chip suppers behind.

That said it is getting worse. And the disposability of everything doesn't help.

Never been much of an outdoorsy type, but every few years I’ll have a little road trip around Wales, visiting family in Pembs. On the way back heading through snowdonia/Llanberis. Bloody hell it seemed busy this year! I usually stop and have a wander up snowdon and some food etc, but nowhere to park and it all looked a bit stressful.

Kormoran, round our way we have bins emblazoned with
I'm a bin, throw your litter in.

Noone bothers

I had thought they would all sod off back to Blackpool afterwards but sadly that doesn’t seem to be the case

Careful now.....

We've got enough arseholes visiting here and sh!tting the place up as it is

The amount of litter around is absolutely disgusting. You brought it with you filled up with food, drink, vaping fluid etc....why are you too bone idle to take it back with you or find a bin. Chucking stuff out of cars, why, there is about 20 square feet of seating around you to put it on you lazy sods.
In fact, it's not even lazy, takes no more effort, these people are just ignorant disgusting vermin. Cigarette butts don't even seem to be classed as litter by smokers, just lob them wherever you fancy.

I was on a plane a couple of years ago where a family of utter 🛎️➡️s basically made their seats an absolute midden of wrappers, food, cans, paper etc.. the air hostess asked them to tidy up the area and hand her the litter on their pass up the cabin with the bin bags and the family refused telling her that was her job, why should they etc.... rightly so she told them her job wasn't to clean up their mess after them (it was disgusting, smashed up crisps all over the floor, food everywhere, them mouthing off at everyone on the plane who backed the hostess up). I'd have happily seen them banned from flying for life, actually have some punishment for once, how often do we see shocking behaviour just allowed to happen with no consequences. Pilot even came out in this case and they didn't give a monkeys about what he said either.

It's people like that ruining it for the rest of us and the problem is these people usually make the most noise, cause the most trouble and think the world owes them a living so have a much larger negative effect on us than the normal people keeping their head down.

Yep, sadly you need to try just a little bit harder now to find the unspoilt areas, and of course the instagrammers and influencers won't be far behind and then the lazy journalists publishing click-bait stories about them, then the hoardes descend.

And repeat.

As a creature humans in general really aren't much better than locusts , all it takes is a percentage of the population to be genuinely a bit ignorant, multiply that across the whole population and you've got an awful lot of idiots out there ☹️

Absolutely, the increase in entitlement and disregard, for almost everything is staggering

There's quite a large minority of the population who are complete shits. They've always been there and to be honest in the past given how hard their lives were it was understandable. These days there's less excuse and more impact. The trouble is we tolerate poor behaviour with no sanction, people kick off if the rules are enforced and scream police state etc. Look at motor ing laws as an example. We can't have it both ways.

We even get this appeasement attitude on here, remember the Cardiff riots thread, for every person condemning the behaviour of the 2 victims there were plenty providing excuses. Poor behaviour is rife, passed a lad on the road today on a RonSur with a balaclava and no plates.

We should ask ourselves what "successful" tourism and leisure looks like for the visitors, for the "locals" and the tourism /leisure industry

We should ask ourselves what “successful” tourism and leisure looks like for the visitors, for the “locals” and the tourism /leisure industry

I like that.
It would stop me moaning...

Some really eye popping behaviour observed here

https://thepathlesstravelled.co.uk/2023/05/29/three-days-in-may/

Oh yes.
We are losing whole days to litter picking now and some of it is literally pretty s****y.
Vans and campers just leaving bin bags of rubbish behind that get torn open by rats, foxes and birds for us to repick.

Most of our sites are 4x busier than they were 10 years ago, probably going to have a million people head through our counters to one summit this year and that isn't all the access points.

Had 7 acres of pasture go up in flames 2 weeks ago because of a cigarette end out a car.

For balance though, less burnt out cars these days, not cleared up one of those for a few years.

Assault on Forest Ranger in Fife just for asking someone not to light a fire in a tinder dry forest a couple of days after the fire service had put the last fire out.

I like that.
It would stop me moaning

Oh I dunno I like moaning it's a necessary stage in identifying that something is not right. It's converting the moaning to sensible action that's the difficult part

Clown mask. Boiler suit. Shotgun.

I started the thread below about litter picking when out with doggo. Basically every time I go out with a litter picker I'm collecting a full bag each time. Same entitled shit every time.
Monster
Redbull
McD's
Bagged dog shit
companies that make enough money they could run campaigns and educate their customers that would end their littering - but they don't. Bagged dog shit? - 🤷‍♂️

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/spring-clean/

Disposable BBQs need banning now

I appreciate the reasoning but,

Great, that means that at a friend's barbecue the vegetarians are on buttered rolls and if they're lucky a side salad.

Disposable BBQs need banning now

I appreciate the reasoning but,

Great, that means that at a friend’s barbecue the vegetarians are on buttered rolls and if they’re lucky a side salad.

Not at all, and as a lifelong veggie I know exactly what you mean.
But you can get quite nice little BBQ units, cutesy things that cost not a crazy amount more and are designed to be reused AND also tend to keep the unit on legs, so off the floor.

£14 at Saino's.
Possibly costs nearly enough not to just leave it (though actually I doubt that) and clearly it's designed to be used again and again.
£2 for a 'disposable' one is too cheap.

It's also symbolic in a way. The word 'disposable' needs to be pushed aside because, well, people.

Disposable BBQs need banning now

There's quite a few large stores no longer stocking them, unfortunately this just means other places see a gap in the market judging by the massive stacks I've seen at some corner shops ☹️

Try living at a popular seaside destination. Its utterly unbelievable the volume of rubbish left on the beach, and near the overflowing bins.
Which the seagulls attack and redistribute across the car park.
Buried disposalable bbqs as the bins are designed not to take them is so annoying
Smashed or buried bottles are normal.
Such a shame

Absolutely, the increase in entitlement and disregard, for almost everything is staggering

The effect of 40 years of everyone for them self tory governments have possibly not helped but then they were voted in by the people so maybe the people were already like that.

Although as said above you are still seeing the actions of a relatively small number of people out the the 70 million that are living in UK.

The effect of 40 years of everyone for them self tory governments have possibly not helped but then they were voted in by the people so maybe the people were already like that

I definitely think there's something in all of this. When you're told there is no such thing as society then expect people not to care about society.

Yes, and it is a direct consequence of covid and lockdowns etc.

Most of the chavs have gone back to the town centre shops and pubs, but a sizeable number still get out more than before covid. I can't think of a way of discouraging them, unfortunately.

Most of the chavs have gone back to the town centre shops and pubs, but a sizeable number still get out more than before covid. I can’t think of a way of discouraging them, unfortunately.

There's probably no one solution but give people good prospects and reason to respect stuff that is theirs to use and you might have only half the battle.

Engage community in local projects; make them feel part of it. All the seed sewing stuff that gets undone with lack of big local spending.

Has to happen or ... Mad Max Fury Road etc.

you can get quite nice little BBQ units, cutesy things that cost not a crazy amount more and are designed to be reused AND also tend to keep the unit on legs, so off the floor.

£14 at Saino’s.

That's actually pretty neat. I might have to pick up a couple.

It'd feel pretty weird rocking up to a friend's barbecue carrying my own though.

Which the seagulls attack and redistribute across the car park.

I live close to a chip shop. Two days ago there was a walking stereotype 'wrong un' youth milling about outside, hoodie pulled tight over his head when it's north of 20'C. He sits down on the kerb directly outside my front window, I judgementally wonder "what's he up to?" until he turns and I realise he's got a tray of chips on the go. There's benches and greenery right across the street so that's a bit weird but, well, OK.

Suddenly, this bloody great seagull comes steaming in. Seagulls are bigger than you think anyway, but this one was a big sod by any measure. "I'm having those" thinks the seagull. Our hero leaped up and took boggarts down the road, chips flying everywhere, seagull in hot pursuit.

Hashtag shouldn't laugh but...

Haven't noticed it at all, and in fact my experience is that its getting emptier. I ride pretty regularly in areas (Peaks Calderdale North Wales) that are usually pretty busy, and recently I've noticed (conf bias possibly?) that I'm meeting fewer and fewer folks outside of say a 500m radius around popular car parks and they tend towards more elderly walkers. The thing I have noticed in the increase in e-bikes, and that folks now tend to notice that I'm not on one!

But I haven't noticed that the arsehole level has changed much.