[Closed] Anti Muslim sentiment accusations

that's not what I heard from their appointed spokesmen on the radio and I don't recall any other media saying much different at the time.

I think you need to look at the media here rather than Muslims.
I have explained

Why don't the media report on it, incidentally? Are they not bothered, or are they not allowed?

don't think I've ever encountered anyone who would define themselves as slightly Muslim.

I know one who would describe himself thus but the reality is he is a non Muslim too scared to tell his folks

What exactly is wrong with being anti islam? I am also anti all the other religions too, however that doesn't make me a racist. Why do some people insist that religon and race are inseparable when they clearly are. I think playing the race card is a cheap way out of justifying an unjustified position. Reason and religion are irreconcilable and thats the issue I have with it.

Dont forget, the fundamentalists (Muslim, Christian etc) are chopping each other to bits in quite a few contrys in Africa at the moment.

Religion - causing problems since............well, since their imaginary wizard made the planet.

Dont forget, those old biddies who make tea in the church on sunday support an organisation who has followers that think its OK to stone gay people to death.

Where'd the 'race card' come into it?

[img] [/img]

well..

for all my selfless and vehement defence of Islam on here the last couple of days, the fella in the filling station just scowled at me like Jihad couldn't possibly come soon enough..

Suicide bombing, woman stoning ****ing **** 🙁

Here are the typical responses of singletracks racists, that I see in threads like these. Oh and....IBTGL (In before the Godwins Law).

"I'm not a racist, I'm a race realist. I believe that races are all different and multiculturalism is a bad thing"

"I'm not a Neo-Nazi, I just don't believe in the Zionist propaganda about Hitler being evil"

"I'm not Islamophobic, I just don't think that Islam has a place in the Western World"

"I'm not an antisemite, I don't hate semites."

Funny, isn't it.

Criticise Christianity and you get accused of bullying.

Criticise Islam and you get accused of racism.

Hitchens criticised Islam but one could never really accuse him of racism, maybe you can have a think as to why that is. Is it because, perhaps, that he tended not to attack Muslims in general but the religion and it's Imams instead? He also attacked Christianity, he was clearly a man who understood that there was really no difference between the types of people that called themselves Christian and those that called themselves Muslim. Instead Muslims and Christians are simply opposite sides of a terrible, terrible coin.

According to many enlightened left wing bigots, if you have a genuine concern with Islam it can only have come about through ignorance and not mingling enough. If this blinkered narrow mindlessness wasn't sad enough they then award themselves the right to throw their worst possible insults at the those who don't share their opinion. Predictable but very stupid.

Most people don't have genuine or informed concern though, do they? That's clearly demonstrated by this thread (I'm a Hitchens fan btw).

enfht thank god you were wise enough to not fall into the trap of insulting those whose views you disagree with, a beacon to us all

As you just did everything you objected to it is another of those brilliant internet posts that could be satirical genius but is, sadly, hypocrisy/stupidity.

Criticise Islam and you get accused of racism.

You have conflated what Islam stands for and what a tiny minority of nutters do in it's name and this is the reason you are getting grief IMHO. You do this whilst criticising the majority for not speaking out [ when our media gives them no voice and google will show they do]essentially you have created a straw man, of fear, and opposed that.

Like you i dislike all religions and i can dislike them for good reasons or for bad ones.
IMHO this is a bad one

Hate the terrorists not the religion.

* I am not accusing you of racism here though it can be read that way

I wish to see active discrimination against people who persecute, attack, stone, murder, masacre, alienate ... others in the name of what is written in very old books. If people think my humanist attitude makes me anti-religious, racist, xenophobic, or antisemitic because the people doing it claim to be acting in the name of some God then so be it.

You have conflated what Islam stands for and what a tiny minority of nutters do in it's name and this is the reason you are getting grief IMHO. You do this whilst criticising the majority for not speaking out [ when our media gives them no voice and google will show they do]essentially you have created a straw man, of fear, and opposed that.

I think you can critique Islam but not tar all Muslims with the same brush, which is the feeling that I get from this thread. I dislike the religion but in general don't let that affect my day to day perceptions of Muslims.

Unfortunately the Koran does help enable a small band of nutters.

I think Cougar failed in that respect personally.

All religions can have this but they are still not typical of that faith and you can chastise the majority of the faith for the actions of a tiny minority.

Some jews will defend Israel no matter what it does

Some buddhists will attack Muslims and murder them

Some Christians will target Gays - Uganda

Arguably [ very arguably but I think their faith was an issue here personally ] Blair and Bush had a holy war so that's the christians covered

They all have nutters
none are typical of their faith.

Although Sunni Muslims are responsible for something ridiculous like 75 percent of the worlds terrorist attacks over the course of the previous decade.

Although I guess that depends on what you count as terrorism, state sanctioned bombings are almost invariably never counted.

The difference is now that a large body of the Christian world has become secularised (Europe mostly, with the USA to a lesser degree), so that most Christian extremism/terrorist activity is localised to Africa.

I do feel that the Koran might justify violence a little more easily (but this is open to debate of course) and when this is married to an environment where people feel downtrodden, have very little in the way of real prospects and the young men who don't have jobs or wives are cast aside.....then the results are quite literally explosive. You only have to look at the latest shooting in the States and extrapolate that to the middle east....imagine those types of young men in a poorer country with an environment of religious conservatism.

However, the nutters are the ones who are faithful to the teachings of their respective holy books and the moderates conveniently ignoring some texts.

Thankfully most religious faithful are happy to follow the moderate clerics, but when you read the texts it's the nutters who are making the most literal and accurate interpretation. Words like "stone" and "put to death" are unambiguous. In a society that rigorously applied the laws in any of the major religions I would have been put to death years ago.

I think when religionists start growing beards that's when the problems start.

I don't have a problem with people hating terrorism or terrorists. I don't have an issue with people not liking religion. Despite having a belief myself I'm not over-keen on religion in schools either nor on the replacement of scientific theory regarding evolution replaced by creationism.

I do however have a massive problem with a lack of tolerance or acceptance that people have a right to different views. There has been to my mind quite a lot of that on this thread. If people can't respect the right of others to have differing opinions they should live a life in isolation.

There has also been some significant comment regarding whether criticism of Islam is or should be considered racist. Racism is only one form of prejudice. Without doubt there has been a lot if prejudice on this thread. Ascribing negative views, beliefs and values to a group of people because of one or other characteristics without substantive evidence is prejudice in action.

I personally think if we had been discussing homosexuality in the way we have seen the discussion progress on Islam this thread would have been closed by the Mods long ago...

I do feel that the Koran might justify violence a little more easily (but this is open to debate of course)

I personally think if we had been discussing homosexuality in the way we have seen the discussion progress on Islam this thread would have been closed by the Mods long ago...

Religion bashing has always been considered fair game here. It's normally one a week.

Always good for many pages.

Edukator - Troll 
However, the nutters are the ones who are faithful to the teachings of their respective holy books

Is an interesting interpretation!?!

chewkw - Member

Oh ya btw if you ever lived in a Muslamic country then you should know that they practically anti all other belief systems. i.e. opposite to yours.

Which is ironic, because Islam is designed to be a compatible religion- being launched into a crowded marketplace they couldn't take on the established products head-on so they did a cunning backwards compatability thing and declared that the "people of the book"- christians, jews and IIRC zoroastrians- are cool with them. Sort of like old vs new testament, "Yeah these dudes are basically doing Islam Version 1, they just don't know it, here's Service Pack 2"

It's not the specific religion that's the issue - all the Abrahamic ones adhere to the same values:

The words in The Book are the same, just in a different order. 🙂

Christianity and Islam have historically pretty rarely been in synch when it comes to doctrinal literalism and it's unfortunate consequences.
Islam went through it's last great golden age whilst we were still flinging pig shit at each other and burning goats.

Most people are fine.

zippykona - Member

I think when religionists start growing beards that's when the problems start.

[img] [/img]

It's not the specific religion that's the issue - all the Abrahamic ones adhere to the same values:

The words in The Book are the same, just in a different order.

The words in The Book are the same, just in a different order.

All the right words — but not necessarily in the right order.

[img] [/img]

^^ 😀

I do however have a massive problem with a lack of tolerance or acceptance that people have a right to different views. There has been to my mind quite a lot of that on this thread. If people can't respect the right of others to have differing opinions they should live a life in isolation.

Seems you can't respect the right of others to have a negative opinion of religion.

And religion and homosexuality are not comparable. Religion is just an opinion/belief - just because it's been around a long time and people ascribe great importance to it doesn't make it intrinsically more worthy of respect.

And of course the irony that they are not respecting others views different to their own
TBH it is not like the message any religion has to a non believer is that nice. I say you are wrong I am not suggesting you be killed because you disagree with me as some religious followers are still doing today.
IMHO the intolerance starts with the faithful. We are, after a thousand years, just fighting back [ not literally] and giving you more rights than you ever gave us.

I don't know anything about Buddhism but I'm sure I could find a scholar or cleric to back my political project up with some pretty fighty Buddhist rhetoric if I made it worth my while.

Religion bashing has always been considered fair game here. It's normally one a week.

Seems you can't respect the right of others to have a negative opinion of religion.
And religion and homosexuality are not comparable. Religion is just an opinion/belief - just because it's been around a long time and people ascribe great importance to it doesn't make it intrinsically more worthy of respect.

No, you've clearly not read my posts clearly.

- I'm sick of the same old same old atheism vs. religion arguments. We all know how they begin and end and it is dull.
- I don't have any problem if people don't like religion - it's a view and that is fine. I don't really care if you like religion either.
- Everyone has a right to hold a view - any view. It doesn't matter how ridiculous it may seem to others, how illogical, ludicrous etc...
- We don't have a right to object to people having views
- I didn't say homosexuality and religion are the same - that is ridiculous. Prejudice is prejudice though, once you start to ascribe negativity to people because they are 'different' for any reason that is prejudice. Prejudice is wrong.

I'm sick of the same old same old atheism vs. religion arguments

Everyone has a right to hold a view - any view. It doesn't matter how ridiculous it may seem to others, how illogical, ludicrous etc...

You are absolutely right.
The problem comes when that view has consequences for others who do not share that view.

Christianity:
One woman's lie about having an affair that got seriously out of hand!!

It's hardly helping when the Muslim Council of Britain refuses to condemn the death sentence passed on a young woman in Sudan. Or the lady stoned to death in ****stan. Their Twitter feed is whining on about the rise of "Islamophobia" in Britain instead.

I don't think people are afraid of, or worried about Muslims in the UK. What a lot of people do have (and I count myself here) is a healthy dislike for any organised - particularly Abrahamic - religion, especially one interpreted in such an archaic and backwards fashion.

Until they get the message across to the great unwashed that the dark age practices in Africa have no place in modern Islam, they're effectively condoning the practice.

You have conflated what Islam stands for and what a tiny minority of nutters do in it's name and this is the reason you are getting grief IMHO

I'm going to have one last go at explaining myself and then I'm going to let it lie.

I'm not saying, as I'm sure you know, "all Muslims are nutters." I'm saying that many non-Islamic people's perception of Islam is not a positive one. Some people are scared of the "rise of Islam" in the UK, and UKIP and and the BNP are gaining ground; whether that's causation or mere correlation I don't know but it's a worrying trend.

If as some folk are saying (and some aren't so I'm not sure why it's just me getting picked apart) Islam is being misrepresented, then that needs addressing before things get much worse. By who and how, I'm not sure.

I do however have a massive problem with a lack of tolerance or acceptance that people have a right to different views

This is a logic bomb, because we're really talking about whether it's ok to tolerate intolerance. A common theme in many religions is "hey, be like us and get a reward, don't be like us and be punished." I'm struggling to see how this is anything other than institutionalised intolerance. And when we question that, [i]we're[/i] the ones being intolerant? Sheah.

Religion bashing has always been considered fair game here.

Religious [i]debate[/i] is fair game. This thread has hardly been a one-way "lets all gang up and say how crap Islam is" discussion now, has it. Would you prefer censorship, or just special privilege?

I'm sick of the same old same old atheism vs. religion arguments.

I'm sick of people whining rather than contributing. All threads aren't mandatory reading, door's that way.

I don't like football, but I don't hang around the Man United thread bleating on about it, I just don't read those threads.

Those who [i]do[/i] enjoy the finer points of discussing, oh I don't know, whatever armchair footballists like to talk about, offsides or something, can do so to their hearts' content. And I'm sure they're a hotbed of new and insightful points that have never been discussed before, and people regularly realise the errors of their ways and decide to support Liverpool instead.

A little light entertainment on the subject for a Saturday morning. Enjoy...
http://m.tickld.com/x/i-wish-this-man-was-my-father-hes-hilarious

It's hardly helping when the Muslim Council of Britain...

The thread could do with a gay lapsed Muslim to contribute.

The thread could do with a gay lapsed Muslim woman to contribute.

FTFY

Morning, Cup of tea anyone? - Was a bit drunk last night and just sorting a bacon sandwich to soak it up a bit - Neither of which I could do under Islam.

Northwind - Member
Which is ironic, because Islam is designed to be a compatible religion- being launched into a crowded marketplace they couldn't take on the established products head-on so they did a cunning backwards compatability thing and declared that the "people of the book"- christians, jews and IIRC zoroastrians- are cool with them. Sort of like old vs new testament, "Yeah these dudes are basically doing Islam Version 1, they just don't know it, here's Service Pack 2"

Unfortunately, this is the moderate views but for the more extreme ones they use this sort of argument to convert others. I know because many of the natives got converted this way. They did not see them coming.

Junkyard - lazarus

I don't know anything about Buddhism but I'm sure I could find a scholar or cleric to back my political project up with some pretty fighty Buddhist rhetoric if I made it worth my while.

Buddhist 969- though they are a bit more like a Buddhist EDL with added violence [ and sophist denial of it]

Yes, Buddhist is very practical. If someone slaps you on your right cheek you either avoid being slapped again or you retaliate in full might. Unlike the teaching of some nice guy by the name of Jesus, we don't turn the left cheek to be slapped again coz that's simply stooopiiidd.

As for 969 I have no problem with that because if you live in that region i.e. South East Asia, then you will know the situation of religion encroachment if not put in check will create more trouble later on. Indonesia and Philippines as examples. No we don't need the Western views to teach us right from wrong and no you should not invade Burma again. No, I don't support that Burmese Lady and if the Burmese Lady is going to intervene in the matter of religion her support will evaporate overnight. She is just a Burmese Lady so nothing special there. To the "fire starter" Western ideology she is a "saint". I can assure you that there are more saintly person than her there. No, this [b][u]Demon[/u][/b]cracy should not be forced upon on the people. Ya, stooopid people think demoncracy will solve everything. Look at Thailand demoncracy is simply a way to split the nation. Go away demoncracy! This western ideology is just a pest. The region has demoncracy their own way.

You are absolutely right.
The problem comes when that view has consequences for others who do not share that view.

Yes it does - and I have a massive issue with that too.

It's hardly helping when the Muslim Council of Britain refuses to condemn the death sentence passed on a young woman in Sudan.

Shaykh Ibrahim Mogra, Assistant Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain and Paul Hendricks, Auxiliary bishop of Southwark Diocese, write: "As Co-Chairs of the Christian Muslim Forum, we call for compassion in this situation and for the death sentence against Mariam Yehya Ibrahim Ishag to be dropped

Until they get the message across to the great unwashed that the dark age practices in Africa have no place in modern Islam, they're effectively condoning the practice.

I'm saying that many non-Islamic people's perception of Islam is not a positive one.

Flaperon - Member

It's hardly helping when the Muslim Council of Britain refuses to condemn the death sentence passed on a young woman in Sudan.

What the hell has it got to do with the Muslim Council of Britain ?

I could understand if it was the Muslim Council of Sudan that you were referring to but why the Muslim Council of Britain ? Has the British Koi Carp Society voiced their disapproval, or have they also remained silent on the issue ?

Oh no wait, I know......it's because when one Muslim does something wrong or unacceptable all other Muslims throughout the word are responsible for that - that's it isn't it ? ffs

But as Junkyard points out the Assistant Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain did indeed condemn the death sentence passed on a young woman in Sudan, so you were talking bollocks anyway.

I'm still waiting to hear from the British Koi Carp Society on the matter. Until then I'll assume they are condoning the death sentence.