I think we have all gone off topic here. The main question asked by the OP was:
Do you believe there is false reporting and possibly a deliberate attempt to bolster anti Muslim sentiment from within the government as suggested?
No I don't believe it was false reporting.
Why would the Government want to bolster anti Muslim sentiment?
Islam is misogynistic/sexist and does instruct to separate boys and girls for schooling.
So your limit is that children should not be taught about their culture and religion in a state school?
My limit is straw man arguments - others explained what could work
what do you mean by faith,
Its not hard to work out if the school is a faith school or not as they shout about the fact and usually have it in the name.
Rather anti-choice isn't to say private schools
rather anti choice to only allow rich people to attend so the argument works both ways
The fact I cannot murder folk , who make bad arguments on the internet*, curtails my choices as well. It is what society does we should discuss whether it is fair and appropriate not whether we do it.
We need faith schools in this country to support the communities which require them.
NO we dont they have religious buildings to do that we should not be "educating" them into the faith
No one seems to want to let me have my suicide school Jihad Wahhabi Islam school you intolerant bastards...i am sure we could find a community that wanted that and to do female genital mutilation for religious reasons and a variety of other stuff we do not like
Education should be that and religion should be a private matter by which i mean not state funded.
Jam we all know if you select your pupils for certain abilities the school then does better in that respect
if you then give them more money per pupil than other schools they perform better still
Both of these would be true whichever sector it was in.
* I am not being serious either on the point or to that poster
What is your point dragging in private schools can we just discuss one issue please?
Please explain how religions isolate people, particularly women
Your right the three things they are know for is their massive respect and equal treatment of
1, Womenz
2. the gays
3. those who do not follow their religion
No one could argue differently or give any credible evidence to counter this eh - so we all concede this well made point
Islam is misogynistic/sexist and does instruct to separate boys and girls for schooling.
Many institution/organisations do similar, why just pick on Islam ?
Many institution/organisations do similar, why just pick on Islam ?
Because that's what the OP asked about.
Also, I don't know any that do it because God tells them to do.
A well accepted definition of multiculturalism:“at ease with the rich tapestry of human life and the desire amongst people to express their own identity in the manner they see fit."
You're the second punter to make that statement recently. I don't agree with that definition and I don't agree that it is well-accepted.
I don't think people are picking on Islam, I'm good picking on all the Abrahamic faiths, Islam just seems to be the most shouty and aggressive. Even moderate islam isn't. I believe Islam is completely out of step with the established values of the United Kingdom but I'm happy to be convinced otherwise. In regard to the OP, no I don't believe the reporting is false, in Tower Hamlets religious pressure was brought to bear upon voters, this is not acceptable increasingly Islam is being asked questions in the media that it finds uncomfortable to answer.
What has multiculturalism done for us over the last 50 years? Apart from raise serious crime statistics of course
Positive and negative ?
You're the second punter to make that statement recently. I don't agree with that definition and I don't agree that it is well-accepted.
Who are you calling a punter?
I'm not the 2nd, it was me that quoted the 1st time.
It's from wiki so it must be true.
What's your definition then?
Your right the three things they are know for is their massive respect and equal treatment of
1, Womenz
2. the gays
3. those who do not follow their religionNo one could argue differently or give any credible evidence to counter this eh - so we all concede this well made point
That is a statement not an explanation, so no we maybe ought not to concede its a point well made !! maybe you ought to find a link to post to prove the point !
The above 3 points are not exclusive to religious practice
Deleted..... 😉
What has multiculturalism done for us over the last 50 years? Apart from raise serious crime statistics of course
Whereas in the 50 years before that we had peace and happiness, apart from the wars and genocide committed by whites on other whites was around 30 million deaths including Stalin's genocide I think?. Multiculturalism has been mostly good for the UK the problem comes when people do not integrate and then claim it's because the UK is racist when the truth is quite the opposite. People live in their own communities, go to their own schools and create isolation and division.
No discussions about Muslims on stw go unpunished. I give this thread an hour before closure and a couple of week long bans...
you ought to find a link to post to prove the point !
Yes ok then I will get one but first I am off to proves water is wet , the sun is warm.
The evidence for all three is pretty much indisputable [ well anywhere but STW obviously] and I was using sarcasm to prove it
we maybe ought not to concede its a point well made !! maybe you ought to find a link to post to prove the point !
Maybe you ought to read the whole quote and understand sarcasm as that was directed at your point not mine
no faith schools full-stop. no segregation, no animosity, no media scaremongering.
Wars and genocide are not the crime I refer as you well know.
No discussions about Muslims on stw go unpunished. I give this thread an hour before closure and a couple of week long bans...
Can we have an STW online stoning?
alpin - Memberno faith schools full-stop. no segregation, no animosity, no media scaremongering.
My kind of utopia (without Mao, Stalin and all that malarky)
STW can be a truly scary place sometimes. The dictatorial anti religious rhetoric is quite disturbing. Its frankly no different than persecuting one religion because you don't agree with it.
@gobuchul. Getting back on track. No I don't think there has been deliberate misrepresentation. There is a legitimate question here to be answered regarding the faith schools and a legitimate concern.
I was talking recently to a man who had been to ****stan to help Christian victims of persecucution.
Firstly I admired his guts, secondly I felt sorry for the persecuted.
Then I felt angry that someone had infected them with a belief that gets them killed.
Its not worth dying or killing for.
Religion ,get over it.
One of the few good things about the US state Education system is that it's secular.
Poor old Islam 🙄
dictatorial anti religious rhetoric is quite disturbing
Yes we need to stay within the realms of calm measured reasoning like that eh 😉
Can we have an STW online stoning?
I will happily get stoned just for STW 😯 we do mean that type?
One of the few good things about the US state Education system is that it's secular.
Apart from in the states where they manage to slip it in the back door via the 'science' of creationism.
Not quite sure why I should respect any religion, especially one as unpleasant as Islam.
Most religions insist that you will teach your children and bring them up as Christians/Muslims/Jews or whatever.To prevent this would be seen as preventing religious and cultural freedom.
Well then they can do one. What about the child's personal freedom?
But every religion I am familiar with has a commitment (made at marriage usually) to raise any children in that faith. Its a totally normal thing to do.
Just because something is 'normal' doesn't make it right. FGM is 'normal' in some places.
Of course it is not. It is no different you bringing your children up for example with a view that there is no God.
Absence of belief is not the same as belief. I would bring up my children to think for themselves and the state should too.
The dictatorial anti religious rhetoric is quite disturbing. Its frankly no different than persecuting one religion because you don't agree with it.
More ludicrous hyperbole.
My kids go to the CofE aided village school. They have regular religious assemblies, regular trips to church for special services, and the diocese has a couple of people on the board of governors.
Both kids are in the local Scouts and Guide unit, also attached to the local church, also attend regular services.
Both of my kids have much better knowledge of different religions than I do, neither of them actually believe in a god or consider themselves religious.
I think the religion haters like to overstate the risks and dangers of those they oppose, just as much as extremists in many religions.
Apart from in the states where they manage to slip it in the back door via the 'science' of creationism.
Still way better than the UK where the state actively funds religious indoctrination miss-labelled as education.
I think the religion haters like to overstate the risks and dangers of those they oppose
Yes there is just no link between being brought up in a religion and then following that religion- FACT
Extensive study shows that almost no one ends up in the same religion they were brought up FACT
Thanks for the info 🙄
Grum - there is quite a difference between education that is informative and education that is doctrinal. You can have the former without the latter. I don't remember the exact quote but I do remember Dawkins saying he felt he was one of the most informed and educated people (he is never short of self belief!) on the subject of religion in the modern world. And he thinks it's all bobbins.
Whilst I don't think there is any place for faith based schools I would say that anything other than a very surface deep understanding of the world around us is impossible without an appreciation of the faiths that have elicited actions and events so religious education does have a place.
Know thy enemy and all that.
Who are you calling a punter?
You.
Both of my kids have much better knowledge of different religions than I do, neither of them actually believe in a god or consider themselves religious.
So what's the point of them going to a religious school then?
I think the religion haters like to overstate the risks and dangers of those they oppose, just as much as extremists in many religions.
People keep coming out with utter, utter bullshit like this. The fail is so strong it's hard to know where to start.
So not agreeing with religious indoctrination of children is the same as religious extremism?
Whilst I don't think there is any place for faith based schools I would say that anything other than a very surface deep understanding of the world around us is impossible without an appreciation of the faiths that have elicited actions and events so religious education does have a place.
Yup, don't have a problem with that.
STW can be a truly scary place sometimes. The dictatorial anti religious rhetoric is quite disturbing.
Can you give me an example of this dictatorial rhetoric of which you speak, please?
I have no problem with religion being taught in school as long as it is factual
this may even involve saying they believe this they do that and explaining why and discussing it in historical fashion as to its influence then and now
These are facts - them being true is not a fact. It is not even close to a fact, It is not even close to have any evidence to support it never mind crap evidence
Nothing else so poorly evidenced would be allowed to be taught in school never mind making it mandatory to GCSE level NOTHING.
Can you give me an example of this dictatorial rhetoric of which you speak, please?
You are not allowed to publish e-mails from the mods are you 😉
To be clear not had one for a very long time and they have occasionally discussed issues with me so just a joke.
Religion is a political position, it's a view point, an opinion - nothing more, it's not special and has (or should have) no special rights. The religious seem to feel that they have some special place in the world that the rules don't apply to them, that they report to a higher authority, that "only god can judge me" - Scary, self centred and mental.
If the media pick up on this and they look as mad as they are, fair enough.
You are not allowed to publish e-mails from the mods are you
Depends, I can't speak for others but personally I would try not to send anything via email that I wouldn't want escaping into the public domain. Any veiled secrecy is probably just that we'd rather avoid a long and protracted 'discussion' with people who'd argue that milk is purple.
Which reminds me, I owe you an email.
So just to be clear: this is a thread started by a pseudonymous person to discuss vague complaints of anonymous persons about unspecified persons' unspecified allegations about unnamed schools being tainted by unevidenced bias? Have I got that right?
So just to be clear: this is a thread started by a pseudonymous person to discuss vague complaints of anonymous persons about unspecified persons' unspecified allegations about unnamed schools being tainted by unevidenced bias? Have I got that right?
What's your point caller?
Milk is petrol and looks like a tree.
As any fule kno.
So just to be clear: this is a thread started by a pseudonymous person to discuss vague complaints of anonymous persons about unspecified persons' unspecified allegations about unnamed schools being tainted by unevidenced bias? Have I got that right?
Not at all. Couldn't be more wrong.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-27257077 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-27257077[/url]
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-27290877 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-27290877[/url]
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/10806862/City-fights-new-Trojan-Horse-Islamic-schools-plot.html ]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/10806862/City-fights-new-Trojan-Horse-Islamic-schools-plot.html[/url]
Do you believe there is false reporting and possibly a deliberate attempt to bolster anti Muslim sentiment from within the government as suggested?
In answer to this - no I think that's highly unlikely. There are many things you can accuse the current government of but I really don't think this is one of them.
False reporting - almost certainly, but that doesn't mean the 'plots' didn't happen.
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grum - they go to that school as it is the village school. It is the one they can walk to, and have no stupid religious criteria for getting in.
And while I am happy that your opinion is different to mine, and you are quite at liberty to say so, just dismissing my opinion as bullshit doesn't exactly make me warm to your counter argument. An inability to consider or deal with others point of view is a problem across all manner of religious, cultural and political issues.
And I think your comment rather answered Cougars later point. I've said it before on here that the level of intolerance for religion on this forum is surprisingly "forthright". I'm not religious, I believe that extreme religious views are as dangerous as any other form of extreme views, but I fail to see how otherwise normally broadminded members of the forum can be so blinkered on this one topic.
