and of course IT’S NOT THE LAW
Well, of isn't the law (in england). You are getting angry at people breaking a rule that doesn't exist. Once again this comes forms poor leadership. The government have washed their hands of the issue and pushed it onto the individuals. The blame for non compliance, and the resulting mess, needs to be pushed back onto government
That will be the women "of a certain disposition" whatever that is.
It may be that but I think it is mainly because they don't care. A lot of them must know the the mask is to protect others, slow down spread etc,. so the choice to not wear one must have a large element of not giving a shit about it.
I have four feelings about masks, although I do wear them where necessary.
1) The rules are illogical. If covid is so bad, and masks make a difference, then they would be mandated everywhere and strictly enforced. The idea that I need to wear one to pop into the corner shop quickly for a pint of milk, but not wear one sitting in the pub next door for hours is completely illogical. This leads me to think they’re pure theatre, just like taking your shoes off for airport security.
2) Throughout nearly all of history covering your face has had negative connotations. We’ve spent years being told to take hats and hoodies off in banks, as a motorcyclist being told I must take my helmet off “for security”, that usual someone covering their face is committing a criminal act. This level of background psychological conditioning is hard to break mean you’re immediately distrustful of someone when you can’t see their face.
3) They affect communication. Loss of facial expression, and in my case due to slightly poor hearing, muffled speaking again causes an additional level of stress that’s uncomfortable.
4) And finally, if you’re gonna wear one, wear the bloody thing properly! Yes, I’m looking at you Heartlands Hospital staff. You should be leading by example, not bunging one on the second you realise you’ve been seen by a patient, or wandering around with a chin mask.
This leads me to think they’re pure theatre
Mask wearing is probably the clearest reminder that there's a lurgy going around, irrespective how effective they are. Nothing wrong with a bit of theatre.
magna carter rights
Is that something to do with LGV licences?
1) The rules are illogical. If covid is so bad, and masks make a difference, then they would be mandated everywhere and strictly enforced. The idea that I need to wear one to pop into the corner shop quickly for a pint of milk, but not wear one sitting in the pub next door for hours is completely illogical.
Well covid is bad and masks make more difference than pretty much anything else. That is all you need to know really.
The fact a useless government have deemed it okay to sit in a pub for hours is because of useless government not because masks are 'pure theatre'. If it has been decided that pubs can remain open then that is a poor decision but doesn't mean you can't wear a mask at other times, i.e. going into a shop where you won't be drinking or eating.
The rules are illogical. If covid is so bad, and masks make a difference, then they would be mandated everywhere and strictly enforced.
Your logic is illogical. Masks clearly are effective as the BMJ study I linked to shows.
Unfortunately our crappy populist/'libertarian' government won't do the right thing because they don't dare piss off their 'base' - so we have this stupid half-way house of 'wear a mask if you want (though not if you're the PM), oh no wait actually wear one sometimes please, no I mean you have to sometimes'.
1) The rules are illogical.
Maybe true. But regardless, the virus doesn't give a **** about rules. I wear a mask when outdoors because I choose to, not because of 'the rules'. It might make a difference, it might not. If it does then it's a minor inconvenience; if it doesn't then, eh, it's a minor inconvenience.
2) Throughout nearly all of history covering your face has had negative connotations.
Know many Muslim women, do you?
3) They affect communication.
... he typed.
If you can't hear a raised voice through a bit of cloth I suggest you get checked out for hearing aids. Since all this broke, the one and only time it's presented an issue for me is with a deaf neighbour who lip-reads.
4) And finally, if you’re gonna wear one, wear the bloody thing properly!
This I do agree with. Do or do not.
Re: that GBN guy - I've not seen a forehead that big since I last watched Thunderbirds. I reckon a lifetime of being ridiculed has led him to GBN, the natural home of ridiculous people
Shopping in Lidl yesterday there were as many women not wearing masks as men. They were all younger though- the old people seemed much more likely to be wearing them. This suggests it’s an age / risk profile judgment people are making.
Not my views or comments but ones I have heard and a who I heard them from
A mask stops me breathing properly and I have panic attacks so I can't wear one - man in his 20s
I am wearing a mash coz they say I have to. I won't put it over my nose because it steams up my glasses and you don't breathe through you nose, do you - lady with two kids about 18-12 outside Sainsburys
I ain't wearing a mask coz they don't on the TV and their not dead - teenager arguing outside the little Tesco
I forgot my mask. (fresh one offered to her for new packet) . No thanks, I have got one at home - Woman at little Tesco pushing past the teenager
**** off - bloke going into B&Q
My personal position
I don't wear a mask at home when family visits
I don't wear a mask at home when walking around non-crowded areas like the Sports Centre, although I don't walk much so it doesn't really apply
I don't wear a mask at home when cycling or driving
I do wear a mash when on public transport - or at least I will when I use it tomorrow
I do wear a mask in crowded indoor areas like shopping centres and supermarkets
I am guilty of not wearing a mask in some shops when I have forgotten to take the mask with me or left it in the car. These tend to be when I just nip to the shops for a pint of milk or to post a parcel rather than the planned longer trip
I haven't faced much actual anger except perhaps from B&Q man.
A mask stops me breathing properly and I have panic attacks so I can’t wear one – man in his 20s
I am wearing a mash coz they say I have to. I won’t put it over my nose because it steams up my glasses
These two are true to some degree, though not doubt being used as an excuse by many more. I find it v difficult to do my job as photographer wearing a mask because it makes the viewfinder steam up and basically become unusable. If anyone has any bright ideas regarding that I'm all ears.
The glasses thing also - I have a strong astigmatism and have struggled with getting contact lenses to work for me. I'm pretty blind without the glasses, and I'm yet to work out a way to wear a mask so it doesn't steam them up.
I tend to just give up on the glasses but it can genuinely be quite stressful/give me headaches etc not to wear them for long periods. Being unable to see well and have eye strain, combined with it being hard to hear people, can feel quite isolating for those who experience social anxiety. Sadly there are lots of people who just don't care anyway though, and will probably use it as an excuse.
Places like supermarkets and anywhere busy etc can be quite triggering for anxiety, and combined with covid fears, mask wearing issues, and a lack of practice at going out, it is genuinely hard for some people at the moment, so I really try hard not to judge, but it's not easy!
Shopping in Lidl yesterday there were as many women not wearing masks as men. They were all younger though- the old people seemed much more likely to be wearing them. This suggests it’s an age / risk profile judgment people are making.
They're missing the point - mask wearing is mainly to reduce transmission from, not to the mask wearer. Wearing a mask protects those around you. It's mainly selfishness, not an understanding and judgement of risks to the wearer / non-wearer.
Can anyone explain why?
It's only my theory, but some people are unable to accept scary or inconvenient truths. Covid is both Scary and Inconvenient. It's easy for them to claim it's not real, like some people do with climate change etc.
Now, more than any time before, it's far easier to 'prove' that something scary and inconvenient isn't real, because there are plenty of like-minded people willing to say so online, and people who pray on those fears in the media.
If someone can only sleep at night, because someone told them that something scary and inconvenient isn't real, then seeing others who don't believe the same challenges that so if they stride into the shop for their morning coffee without a mask and see others with masks, they might laugh at those fools, but if they all start to look at them because of their lack of mask, it starts to break down their reassuring lie and you force them to accept the scary truth, hence the reaction.
It's not a lack of IQ that causes Covid denial, it's a lack of EQ.
Locally, it's been more women than men being maskless, but almost all have been visitors from England. This will mostly be down to ignorance of the difference in rules, though there's almost certainly a "how dare they have different rules" thing going on too.
I think that compliance in shops would be higher if the one-way systems were re-introduced, along with "enforced" hand cleansing and other social distancing measures. Masks alone seems like we're just playing at it, reducing how serious it is.
Covid is both Scary and Inconvenient.
That's an interesting thought. Anecdotally the group that we struggle to get vaccinated at our practice are the >30's. Not because of crackpot conspiracy theories (although some will undoubtedly hold them) it's mostly because they don't see it as a threat to them. So for lots of these young folks, COVID is just inconvenient
3) They affect communication. Loss of facial expression, and in my case due to slightly poor hearing, muffled speaking again causes an additional level of stress that’s uncomfortable.
I'm partially deaf, and really struggle in 'noise busy' environments to the point that I mostly rely on lipreading when not in a quiet indoor setting next to the person I'm talking to. Masks have been a real problem for me throughout Covid and they has definitely increased my anxiety and stress levels when out and about due to communication difficulties, BUT...
I still wear masks, I'd still rather other people wear them too, cos, well you know why.
Out of sight, out of mind.
Many can't see the immediate effect of what they're doing. Can't see direct links to cause and effect.
Foreign interference.
All the cult-like misinformation has sucked them far down the rabbit hole.
Sensitivity
I can only add a recent situation in China where someone caught covid, and went home to a block of flats. A number of other people in the building subsequently caught covid. It's an important case because it demonstrates the sensitivity of catching covid in an environment where there is hardly any.
The report states that the people in the building had never been in the same space as the originally infected. They are linking it to the corridors, particularly the lift, and the rubbish disposal. Both residents and the service staff caught covid. This means that fine droplets were swirling around the corridors, or on contact surfaces.
Mask types
We had two trains heading for Beijing that were stopped when a suspect case was on each train. Men in medical suits got on and distributed N95 masks to anyone with anything less than that (cloth masks, blue paper masks). I sent family back 200*N95 masks when they're were none in the UK. Cost me £370. Never told them how much it cost. £70 of that was postage. You look daft walking around supermarkets with them on, but they're part of the big picture, which includes washing when home, body and clothes, and all packaging/products you bring in.
Local procedures
Although this seems like overkill, a lot of cases in China are food chain workers, particularly in cold storage. And in supermarkets we are instructed to use gloves to handle any frozen food in the units, and wash the packaging when home and dispose of carefully. Our delivery centre (no mail to homes) was even making people wear goves, open external boxes, dispose of the boxes on the spot, and to wash when home.
The difference between sporadic infections, and endemic situations are part of an "all or nothing" system. Masks are just one part of the system. They will not be fully effectual unless they fit in with the above.
The glasses thing also – I have a strong astigmatism and have struggled with getting contact lenses to work for me. I’m pretty blind without the glasses, and I’m yet to work out a way to wear a mask so it doesn’t steam them up.
Have you tried the anti-fog products like wipes/sprays?
So for lots of these young folks, COVID is just inconvenient
This has been a problem since day 1.
For the vast majority of younger folk, it's is an inconvenience and nothing more. If they catch it the worst case is they'll feel a bit ropey for 2 or 3 days.
Combine this with the fact that the measures used to contain it has disproportionately affected the young more than the old and it's no surprise that there is some resistance to things, be it masks or vaccines.
Saying that, I still think the majority of people not masked up near me are older, 50 ish I'd suggest=, and an even mix of male and female.
It’s only my theory, but some people are unable to accept scary or inconvenient truths. Covid is both Scary and Inconvenient. It’s easy for them to claim it’s not real, like some people do with climate change etc.
I'd go with half of that (the inconvenient bit). I reckon that part of non-compliance is a refusal to believe that it is serious / scary.
It's just a cold.
There's a 99.5% recovery rate.
I'm young / healthy [therefore even if I do get it I'll be fine].
It's that sort of mentality. You can bet that if it were Ebola and caused violent vomiting and shitting of blood, people would be wearing full on gas masks and staying as far away from everyone as possible but the belief that it's "just a cold" and that it's not severe is part of the problem. People then think that mask wearing / social distancing is all a big con and by not complying, they're sticking it to The Man.
Bit like the Brexit vote, a lot of that was the same mentality. Refusal to accept it was a serious thing or that the consequences could be severe, stick it to the Metropolitan Elite. It's all the same attitude and actually the same right-wing "anti-woke" brigade behind it. Infringement of my freedom, sov-rin-tee, my rights...
Mask anger is due to shit parenting, chaotic/catastrophic event pre six years and males who's muscle development outstripped intellectual and emotional development in very early teens.
Mainly it's grown ups who haven't grasped they are running through life shouting "your not the boss of me" at their dad/mom.
And lead piping.
🙂
Actually, lead piping might fix some of this. A stout two-foot length should be about right.
It’s all the same attitude and actually the same right-wing “anti-woke” brigade behind it. Infringement of my freedom, sov-rin-tee, my rights…
I think sadly, that's a convenient band-wagon for some who simply can't be bothered, to jump on.
magna carter rights
Is that something to do with LGV licences?
Carter the Unstoppable Rex Machine
igmc
I’d go with half of that (the inconvenient bit). I reckon that part of non-compliance is a refusal to believe that it is serious / scary.
It’s just a cold.
There’s a 99.5% recovery rate.
I’m young / healthy [therefore even if I do get it I’ll be fine].It’s that sort of mentality. You can bet that if it were Ebola and caused violent vomiting and shitting of blood, people would be wearing full on gas masks and staying as far away from everyone as possible but the belief that it’s “just a cold” and that it’s not severe is part of the problem. People then think that mask wearing / social distancing is all a big con and by not complying, they’re sticking it to The Man.
There is something in this I suspect.
If only covid had the effect of making you impotent as a lasting side consequence for even mild cases. The sticking to the rules would have been much better with a side benefit of a reduction in birth rates and if the constituency that continued to fail to comply stayed largely as it is now, society might come out of it a little better bred.
If only covid had the effect of making you impotent as a lasting side consequence for even mild cases.
So what you're saying is that if the virus had a much worse effect on people (impotence, vomiting blood, whatever) then people would take precautions more seriously? But as it doesn't, and particularly for the majority of younger folk, the effects are pretty negligible, then people are taking it less seriously?
I mean, I think you're right, but I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make.
The point- humour - but maybe it failed. Or maybe you are immune.
society might come out of it a little better bred.
I used to live just down the road from the Warburtons.
This has been a problem since day 1.
For the vast majority of younger folk, it’s is an inconvenience and nothing more. If they catch it the worst case is they’ll feel a bit ropey for 2 or 3 days.
Combine this with the fact that the measures used to contain it has disproportionately affected the young more than the old and it’s no surprise that there is some resistance to things, be it masks or vaccines.
Keep hearing this and keep responding - ours are 15 and 18. Huge disruption to their education, social lives and spirits activities. Also all their friends of course.
They and all their friends, and more widely kids I see through Scouts and their other activities are all much more conscientious about masks and vaccines than most adults I know.
Talking up an old v young narrative to this just adds into the wider divide and conquer situation in this country.
Wife's friends boss, middle aged overweight male of Asian ethnic. He is anti vaxer, anti mask wearer, anti social distancer, pretty much anti anything covid restrictions.
Now has a bed in ICU. His family all have tested positive. Things aren't looking good for him just now.
I don't understand his mindset
I refer you to the comment Drac made on page 2 of the thread.
Keep hearing this and keep responding – ours are 15 and 18. Huge disruption to their education, social lives and spirits activities. Also all their friends of course.
They and all their friends, and more widely kids I see through Scouts and their other activities are all much more conscientious about masks and vaccines than most adults I know.
Talking up an old v young narrative to this just adds into the wider divide and conquer situation in this country.
To be clear, this is no way a dig at young folk in any way shape or form.
I think the vast majority have been bloody wonderful and have truly "taken one for the team" for the best part of 2 years.
All I get from people I know, no names will be mentioned, is that "they don't work, I've read studies that say they are useless" or "where does it end" insinuating massive erosion of rights. I have said and pointed out various other more worrying legislation but then I get "Boris is trying his hardest and best" etc. I have asked for links to the studies and all I received back is that they read it on the bbc news site, I couldn't find anything.
Just to add, on the way back from seeing family yesterday we stopped at Toddington services on the M1 as my 2 year old was getting naffed off sitting in his seat after being stuck near Luton for over an hour and a half due to an accident on the M1. My other half went into the services whilst I looked after my son. She came back after going to Burger King and told me how she was mocked by a group of guys for wearing a mask, not directly, but between themselves so she could hear them. If you don't want to wear one, so be it, but how does it affect them by others wearing them.
If you don’t want to wear one, so be it, but how does it affect them by others wearing them.
Probably makes them feel a bit guilty so they then mocked her as a form of self reassurance.
Carter the Unstoppable Rex Machine
😂
Yeah I should used quotation marks.
Your logic is illogical. Masks clearly are effective as the BMJ study I linked to shows.
If face coverings are so effective in reducing transmission in the places they're going to be mandated in why have the covid rates in the rest of the UK remained broadly the same as England? Proper face masks can clearly be effective so the logical conclusion is that transmission isn't common in the places they're mandated, or face coverings don't work.
If face coverings are so effective in reducing transmission in the places they’re going to be mandated in why have the covid rates in the rest of the UK remained broadly the same as England?
Probably all the English people going up to Scotland on holiday. 😉
That and the incorrect use of low quality non FFP2 masks.
the logical conclusion is that transmission isn’t common in the places they’re mandated, or face coverings don’t work.
Ah did you study at the FB School of Epidemiology as well? I don't see how you can possibly think you have enough data (or ability to interpret it) to make such a bold statement.
If face coverings are so effective in reducing transmission in the places they’re going to be mandated in why have the covid rates in the rest of the UK remained broadly the same as England?
If anything like our experience in the summer, most of the English on holiday decided to ignore Calmac pleas and requirement to wear masks onboard. I suspect a lot of our summer rise (as well as school transmission) was imported with Euro Football, holiday makers, COP26 to make but a few....
That and the incorrect use of low quality non FFP2 masks.
I suspect that's the wrong answer because the question would then be 'why is mask wearing mandatory if so many people are using an ineffective mask'? That would suggest that mask use is tokenism.
If anything like our experience in the summer, most of the English on holiday decided to ignore Calmac pleas and requirement to wear masks onboard.
Wowsers, what an interesting revelation, I assume you checked the passports of all Calmac passengers to ensure you get the relevant nationalities confirmed?
Ah did you study at the FB School of Epidemiology as well? I don’t see how you can possibly think you have enough data (or ability to interpret it) to make such a bold statement.
Not those bloody experts again, haven't we had enough of them.
It depends what you mean by "ineffective".
A "fashion mask" won't really do much to stop the spread of the virus if it's airborne. What it will do, very effectively, is stop spread via larger particles, ie coughs and sneezes.
I suspect that’s the wrong answer because the question would then be ‘why is mask wearing mandatory if so many people are using an ineffective mask’? That would suggest that mask use is tokenism.
Because like almost everything this government does it's a crap halfway house due to them not having the balls to show real leadership.
This is from JANUARY:
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/22/europe/europe-covid-medical-masks-intl/index.html
But you can get a good mask, wear it appropriately, and practice good handwashing/social distancing right now, as you've always been able to - but some people would rather try and focus on being smart arses/whataboutery specialists.
Some of the encounters oh here are astonishing! To the OP, the 'i hope you go bust' comment is totally inappropriate and really nasty!!
I haven't stopped wearing one and i'm STILL washing my hands...although i've been doing that since before it was trendy!! 😉 I was in a service station over the weekend on the M3 and the amount of people who have a gypsys and just walk out is baffling!
It's no real hardship is it to place on whilst in a shop etc> I honestly don't see what the problem is personally.
