Here's a link to the basics of a keto diet - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aiHSPoto_YqsNTDvL-g60nytMnyH-CJcCbiAx1IEUYM/edit
I may just stick with it til I get back from holiday then go over to the idiet to see how that works out. I don't think I can get rid of cheese or cream though, they're too good!
Like you I'm not particularly heavy or big any more but I just have the last bits of fat I want to get rid of (as I mentioned in the thread earlier, I'm "skinny fat" as it seems to be known).
As for working harder I didn't mean prep to compete or anything, just interested as to whether the extra few carbs would benefit my normal rides/runs and stronglifts 5x5 sessions and thus help burn more than just sitting in ketosis and not always feeling like I can put 100% into the exercise..
MTFUing and working harder on less food can be very counter productive. If you over do it your performance will collapse.
Tom - the iDiet bans cheese, but if you look at the only internet published study on insulin index, cheese comes in very low. So to me, that means you can eat it in moderation. Moderation, because it's high in calories generally.
It certainly helps enormously with satiety on the iDiet in my experience.
I've not read all 6 pages so this may have been covered previously but to lose that last bit of fat I've found doing 3x weight sessions per week works really well to tone and build some muscle.
Keep it relatively light with the weights and high reps, keep the form good and aim for big compound exercises like squats, pull-ups, dead lifts and chest press. I see so many people fail by going into the gym more often than me who stand chatting with a mate and seeing who can lift the most on the bicep machine with awful technique... Might even be worth getting a personal trainer for the first few sessions to put you on the right lines, there is an excellent workout named Tentigers (look it up).
It will take time so try not to lose patience but as noted on here, once you have a good base its much easier to maintain as you are buring more calories at rest and have that feel good factor about working out.
Its often not easy to fit in these kind of work-outs into your dailly routine but if you want to make it work you can, whether that be going at 5.30am before work (I do this quite a lot) or at lunch time or the twilight shift like 10pm at night.
To echo the comments on here, reduce calories and work hard and the results will show.
[i]Ha !, Excellent. The Troll, properly pwned.[/i]
I'll bet that a good number of folk cut alcohol , fizzy drinks and the shit snacks out of their diets when they start to think about losing weight and whether you call that calorie counting or paleo or clean eating, that's a reduction in intake of calories.
I'm going to try the Gwyneth Paltrow diet next...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/16/gwyneth-paltrow-laughable-diet-genius
No coffee, no alcohol, no dairy, no eggs, no sugar, no shellfish, no deep water fish, no wheat, no meat, no soy, nothing processed at all. 😕
[i]that's a reduction in intake of calories.[/i]
Nick. For you its about the calories. Thats fine if thats how you keep in shape. No one here is going to tell you that you're wrong, because you've demonstrated to yourself that it works [b]for you[/b].
Peace.
🙂
As for Dairy. I usually avoid any of it now. I'm currently reading "The Paleo Answer" by Prof Loren Cordain. The chapters about milk and vegetarianism would make the keyboards of some of the folk here, melt.
I don't really miss cheese anymore and thats from someone who use to really enjoy it. As for any satiety benefits, personally, I'd rather eat a some meat or fish.
EDIT:
Tom, thanks for the link, I'll give it a look.
🙂
[i]No coffee, no alcohol, no dairy, no eggs, no sugar, no shellfish, no deep water fish, no wheat, no meat, no soy, nothing processed at all.[/i]
😯
The list of what's in must be very short.
Meat is pretty expensive, solo. I've found a breakfast of scrambled eggs is a bit so-so, but put cheese on top and it's delicious and keeps me going all day.
[i]Meat is pretty expensive, solo.[/i]
And not just in monetary terms.
I see that some cheddar is around £1 per 100g, I have a tin of mackerel in my desk, 95p for 90g, drained.
Each to their own 😀
Just out of interest, how would you characterize your current level of B/F ? is it where you want/need it to be or have you some work to do ?
My Asda usually has one of the beautiful relatively local small producer mature cheddars on special offer, I will pay £3/lb or so. Good value for money imo.
I'm still trying to lose kgs, of course - because I'm not consistent with what I do. Partly because of work, partly because of family and lifestyle issues, and partly down to me and my state of mind.
That Paltrow diet looks like loads of Joy How the hours must fly by at the Chris and Gywneth house of fun.
Thanks Solo, does that mean you and Molly aren't going to dismiss my contributions with accusations of condescension and trolling because we disagree? Would be nice, huh?
[i]I'm still trying to lose kgs, of course - because I'm not consistent with what I do. Partly because of work, partly because of family and lifestyle issues, and partly down to me and my state of mind.[/i]
A refreshing appraisal, but I'm sure you will get it sorted when you're ready.
🙂
[i]Would be nice, huh?[/i]
It would indeed, especially without:
[i]Interesting that the people losing weight on this thread are doing it counting calories, and the people arguing the toss, aren't....[/i]
So, if being labelled Troll isn't your style, try to offer more constructive posts.
🙂
Interesting that the people losing weight on this thread are doing it counting calories, and the people arguing the toss, aren't...
If you search the forum, you'll find loads and loads of people who had great success with iDiet and 5:2 where they failed with calorie counting.
iDiet works better for me than calorie counting.
nickc - I'm not attempting to condescend (seriously) or accuse you of troll (unlike Solo I know what that actually means 🙂 )
Where do I get details of iDiet? I thought (apologies in advance if I'm wrong) I'd seen some negative press about it.....?
If you search the forum, you'll find loads and loads of people who had great success with iDiet and 5:2 where they failed with calorie counting.iDiet works better for me than calorie counting.
yep.. idave diet worked wonders for me. A few years ago i decided i wanted to have go a some road races.. I was 76kg in the december. I always did circuit training twice week, lots of mountain biking and running at lunch. I never lost any weight or fat through this!
I then did the idiet and lost 6kg in 3 months and 4 inches off my waist.
Despite not being on the diet at all now I stay at 67kg. Strangely i never put on any weight even when i go crazy on food at christmas/ birthdays. I still eat cake, ice cream, chocolate. The only thing i kept from the idiet was ditching cereals for breakfast and eating a protein rich breakfast (I eat eggs every morning and have done for 2 years now)
A couple of mates have done this diet as well and it also worked for them.
I'd seen some negative press about it.....?
Negative press about iDave (the man) but the iDiet (the man's eating plan) has never been in doubt.
Long story.
I don't have the doc any more, but it goes like this:
[list][*]No 'white' carbs ie no bread (whole meal or white), no pasta, no rice, no potatoes, no grains.[/*]
[*]No fruit (the traditional definition not the biological one - tomatoes, squash etc are allowed)[/*]
[*]No dairy[/*]
[*]Oddball banned things include sweetcorn, due to the high fructose content.. can't think of the others.[/*]
[*]No booze apart from red wine[/*]
[*]Eat as much as you want of everything else.[/*]
[*]One day a week, go nuts, fill your face with whatever you like. The more you binge, the better your diet will work. This not a concession to weakness, it's an integral part of the diet and is as important as the rest of it.[/*]
[/list]
You get your carbs from low GI sources like legumes and root veg.
Also take fast carbs after exercise. He does give some figures in the original doc but I've found them not to be enough for my high intensity workouts, and I eat carbs until I feel re-fuelled AFTER workouts. Obv the harder the workout the more carbs I might take. Following the 45 minute rule is crucial ime.
Molly, I'd argue that idiet is a calorie restriction diet. I think mentally people who are dieting tend towards smaller portions, and when it involves men specifically, the sorts of foods, names of diets and ranges of food available are just as important as they they are for all the So called fad diets that men sometimes mock women about.
Make it macho or science based and I think it intrinsically appeals more to a certain type of male mind. Minute analysis of food types to keep interest, sports and training references, all play a part.
Whatever works, go for it, keep it simple or read all the journals and do all the science bit. Choices. Counting cals works for me, and has and will work for others
Molly, I'd argue that idiet is a calorie restriction diet
Not at all. You do end up with fewer calories than if you fill your ace with pies, but that's not the main reason for losing weight. If you ate 2,500 calories with traditional carby diet and 2,500 calories with the iDiet, you would lose way more weight with iDiet, no question.
Bear in mind that we called it iDiet because iDave came up with it. It is NOT the same as the commercial fad diet with the same name that comes up when you google it.
Diets are so last year!
Seriously get yourself on Strava and have an explore at what segments are around you and get out and go for it. You will quickly find a segment that you can get near the top on, then you will get KOM and dance up hills the next day. Then you will think right, cat 4, out of the saddle, push a bit more and surprise yourself.
Its addictive
If you are 13 stone with a bit of a gut on you then go on a diet you can end up as 12 stone with a bit of a gut on you . Perhaps you need to stop thinking about diet and try sit ups and other exercises to tone up the stomach area .
I found cutting out bread in my diet helped a lot with weight loss , and generally stopped me feeling bloated and farting all day , the wife approved of this . When mentioning this to many of my cycling friends I was surprised by how many of them have also cut out bread for the same reasons .
Also I think many people massively over use energy products , you can do a pretty long ride on just water as long as you're not going absolutely balls out , I always carry gels and bars but don't use them unless it's really necessary .
Perhaps you need to stop thinking about diet and try sit ups and other exercises to tone up the stomach area .
That will not do much for the fat.
It will, cyclists all get bellies as it doesnt get a work out, try doing sit ups and you will be surprised
Fat accumulates around your belly because that's where your body likes to put it. Your stomach muscles may be a little slack, but that's not the same as belly flab.
The only think that gets my belly to stick out less is losing weight. I've done sit-ups for years, they made no difference. Except to my strength and ability to do situps 🙂
Perhaps you need to stop thinking about diet and try sit ups and other exercises to tone up the stomach area .
Do people seriously still believe this is how it works?cyclists all get bellies as it doesnt get a work out, try doing sit ups and you will be surprised
[i]unlike Solo I know what that actually means[/i]
Grips. I'd tell you you were wrong, I'd remind you that you're not telepathetic. But we know you're never wrong and that you know what everyone is thinking.
*Reckons Grips is still sore from the overtaking thread*
😉
[i]Molly, I'd argue that idiet is a calorie restriction diet.[/i]
Nick, for you its about the calories. Its not so simple for others though. We understand you, can we move on please.
Kryton.
Mail me if you want a copy of the iDave diet.
(you asked, I'm just offering the info as I have a copy to hand)
[i]Do people seriously still believe this is how it works?[/i]
Evidently so. Its like going back the 1980s.
😆
Around my fattest part, my belly button, I can pinch about an inch and a quarter. So there's not a lot of subcutaneous fat on me. You can just about see my abs for the top half.
Most of it's on the other side of the stomach muscles, which is why my belly goes in when I lose weight.
Incidentally today I've had some scrambled eggs with cheese, a sausage, a coffee and a handful of peanuts. Am I hungry? Not at all. Do I fancy a cake? Hell yes.
If I'd eaten that few calories in the form of cereal, I'd fancy a cake and I'd be bloody ravenous, thereby making it a lot harder to ignore the desire for cake!
I didn't realise this thread was still going on...
Firstly @Kryton, yeah don't radically change your diet or overly-restrict calorie intake in the run up to an endurance event
Secondly @solo - I fail to understand why you're struggling with the concept so much. Fat is where the body stores excess energy, ergo if you change to having a calorie deficit where do you think it takes the balance from? It really isn't rocket science. Trying to directly target fat stores can work but is often not the most efficient way of doing it as you'll likely not be creating as big a calorie deficit as you would be by doing higher intensity exercise, especially for someone with limited time to exercise.
If you really want to target fat directly then get liposuction.
Fat is where the body stores excess energy, ergo if you change to having a calorie deficit where do you think it takes the balance from? It really isn't rocket science.
But it is well known and been mentioned many times on here before that insulin inhibits use of stored fat for energy. Thus if the calories you have consumed cause the release of insulin then you will not burn fat.
Trying to directly target fat stores can work but is often not the most efficient way of doing it as you'll likely not be creating as big a calorie deficit as you would be by doing higher intensity exercise,
You lost me on that one. HIIT targets fat way better than longer lower HR rides. So if you have limited time HIIT is ideal.
Isn't mountain biking (in proper hilly/rocky terrain) often somewhat akin to HIIT anyway?
Admittedly I don't know a lot about it but I was thinking about this on a ride in the Lakes last night and I generally go at certain sections of climbs really hard (say to get up a particularly steep/tricky bit with enough momentum), then ease off for a bit to rest where it gets less steep (still putting in quite a bit of effort - then there's periods of sustained steady effort on flat bits etc.
Isn't mountain biking (in proper hilly/rocky terrain) often somewhat akin to HIIT anyway?
Depends where you live.. Somewhere in the SE maybe, with short sharp climbs, but up North where each climb takes 10 mins, not so much.
F/W.
Sounds to me like you need to lay off the carbs mate. You're blathering is of a biblical magnitude.
Oh, and you're not answering my Qs.
😉
[i]There still seems a lot of crap being typed about burning fat to, that's irrelevant for someone trying to lose weight[/i]
That is bollocks ! But in your more recent jabberings:
[i]ergo if you change to having a calorie deficit where do you think it takes the balance from?[/i]
Your fat stores, perhaps ? In which case, you [b]will[/b] be [i]burning[/i] fat.
Or, as I asked before, what else are you [i]burning[/i].
Anyway, OP wants to lose fat. And you're saying, don't use fat, just run a caloric deficit. Ever heard of a scientist from the 60s called Jean Mayer ? Jean starved rats to death (an extreme form of calorie deficit), only to find..... They still had fat in their bodies. What does this tell you ?
Solo - I'll drop you a mail. IIRC you may have had to pay for the idave diet? If so just send me a summary as I'm interested in what its about atm - I don't want to unfairly get something for free you've paid for.
I would just add, yet again I've returned from a ride after kind of following MolGrips advice - I've had 2 slices of toast at 7am, a cereal bar at 11, 2 coffee's with total 2 spoons of can sugar - then on the bike at 12:30. Just done 35k in a 20kmph wind with an average of 18.1mph and 6 Strava records - all on climbs. 18.1mph average for me is good and the fastest this year.
Also, despite the "complaining" from my legs I've been able to happily wind up the gears - looking down on a flat at a Garmin to see myself rocking along at 24/25mph is a novelty to me.
Got to be more than a coincidence - I'm pretty convinced now the Race Weight diet didn't suit me at all.
Edit: No food on the bike at all - just water with a std zipvit hydro tab. With the planned evening meal and luch I've just eaten Mfp puts me at 1900cals today
Kryton.
iDave released the 2 page .pdf doc for free. Based on his C.V. some folk approached him for more detailed/personalized information. Thats where things went wrong.
So, the basic iDave diet doc is free, at least from me.
🙂
Depends where you live.. Somewhere in the SE maybe, with short sharp climbs, but up North where each climb takes 10 mins, not so much.
Yeah but like I said it's not like each climb is of a consistent intensity - I often have short bursts of absolutely beasting myself to get up a short section then easing off, and repeat......
[i]I often have short bursts of absolutely beasting myself [/i]
Steady on, you'll hurt yourself.
[i] in a 20kmph wind, [/i]
[i] looking down on a flat at a Garmin to see myself rocking along at 24/25mph is a novelty to me.[/i]
Tailwinds are precious and beautiful things
[i]Tailwinds are precious and beautiful things[/i]
Only if they're your own.
FWIW, that 24/25mph value was on a flat travelling east to west. The wind is Southerly.
Into the wind I was at 18/19mph, with the wind about 27mph. The average has come down becuase of the 400m climbing I did.
I recently rode 4 hours, 64 miles. The largest climb was 1.7 miles, 656 ft, 12% in places. There were several other climbs too.
Set out fasted, on water, started eating at 2hrs 10 mins when I had 1/2 dozen mini scotch eggs. I was carrying coconut macaroons too, but didn't need them.
I did have a 50/50 mix of none concentrate fruit juice and water in my second bottle, which I went into during the last 2 hrs.
Just a typical ride.
Good for you kryton57, ignore me, I'm just being silly ( and slightly jealous, went out last night in similar conditions and was no where near your figures)
Trust me Nick, I'm similalry surprised and haven't achieved anything like that in the last 8 months.
Last year I average a 100k with a 18.2 mph average and was told on here that that wasn't fast, and my club rides faster than me so I don't consider that fast.
There may be an element of winter rides coming good, the roads being dry, warmth, shorts instead of longs which contributed as well 🙂
@Solo - I understand now why I can't get rid of this belly. If I was planning a similar ride to yours prior to this week, I'd be eating a massive bowl of granola, carrying a high 5 energy drink, regularly eating fig rolls / jelly babies during the ride and at least one energy bar.
Looks like I need to re-learn what my body will allow me to cope with and trust it.
Edit: [url= http://app.strava.com/activities/49244436 ]Proof here[/url]. Wind numbers where from Endo.
I found cutting out bread in my diet helped a lot with weight loss , and generally stopped me feeling bloated and farting all day
Hmm, so pros and cons then
are you hank or rob on endo kryton ?
Trail Rat - Hank - pork wah?
Edit *considers going out for another 5k* LOL!
