[Closed] Another war in Gaza

Unfortunately Zulu its just another Junkyard attention-seekingfest

Result, a response and a kindred spirit

Why not be polite together?

Junkyard - Member

I think if we were doing what israel is to Palestine there would indeed be uproar. If the people we were treating like this were bombing us I would not be surprised and nor would I expect peace if we continued to so this

I'm not sure there would be uproar. There are 1 million Israelis in the cities within a 35km radius of Gaza that need to run to bomb shelters several times a day, and over the course of the last 7 years, on average once every couple of weeks. It takes under a minute from the sound of a siren for a rocket to fall in those cities. try, for a minute to imagine what you're day to day routine would feel like in those circumstances. you would want military action, you would expect it.

It also doesn't help to compare statistics of deaths on both sides. That there have been more deaths on the Palestinian side doesn't change the fact that they are launching rockets into civilian populations, and oftentimes doing that from locations near schools or religious centers. Al Jabri was taken out in a pin point missile strike when his car was isolated. but that doesnt stop the bbc quoting palestinian officials raving about a 'massacre of their women & children'. which is now their default reaction to anything Israel does, regardless of initial cause or reality.

Yes, israel is militarily a lot stronger than Hamas, but the fact that Hamas have poor quality rockets shouldn't be used to justify the fact they are launching those rockets into civilian populations, or vilify a response to that.

Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005. While before 2005 Gaza was 'occupied', now it is not, but that will not be enough as Hamas just doesn't recognize Israel. That is the root of the problem. There are no rockets launched form the west bank into Israel - Where Fatah, despite its dissatisfaction with the Israeli government recognizes that peace will involve compromise.

Careful JY, next thing you'll be accused of being a terrorist sympathiser, even though I'd find it hard to believe somebody doing that on an open forum.

Surely this whole thing is just a side issue? The popadom's and chutney, if you like. before the fiery madras main course of nuking Iran?

I wish they'd get on with it!

Easy, just tell the Americans to stop bankrolling Israeli's bullying of the Palestinians

Its not that simple though - they'll fight in the middle east no matter what you do or say. Look at Shia v Sunni, look at inter-tribal.

Then look at Jews v Muslim going back centuries to before the Prophet Mohammed and the slaughter/wars etc then.

Israel has its fanatical nutjobs- all sides do and the treatment of the Palastinans is shocking. Disgusting. However if Israel softened it'd be attacked wholesale.

On Iran- it can't let Iran carry on with the weapons program.

Its in a no-win situation from all sides.

What do you mean, another war? When did it end?

Save them, Tony!
[img] [/img]

I wonder how many thousands will be waiting for him on the otherside.

We should just make a bit of money, and arm every country in the middle east up to the teeth*, then let them get on with it. They're all absolutely mad as arseholes, and just itching for a massive scrap anyway.

Lets be honest - if they all wipe each other of the the face of the earth, amongst the islamo-fascist nut-jobs, homicidal dictators and zionists, I can't think of anyone who'd be missed.

Then we could negotiate for oil rights, with the genetically mutated rats and cockroaches, who are the only survivors once the radioactive cloud has subsided

* I know we're doing this already. Lets sell 'em nukes too. The whole shebang

Binners you're a political conundrum aren't you. I've been trying to figure out what your politics actually are and the only word I can come up with so far is 'extreme' 😀

It's kind of funny and frightening at the same time, in a Doctor Strangeglove sort of way 😯

Every generation of Israelis hope that their kids won't have to do National Service but it's pie in the sky [s]as they know that there won't be a lasting peace any time soon.[/s] Because the Palestinians refuse to give up the ghost and move.

FTFY.

SS77, that was an interesting chart on land grabbing, do you have a source for it as I would use it for my Modern Studies SYS.

I was just thinking the same about Binners actually, veers from pole to political pole.

GT - my politics alternate between touchy-feely liberal and hang'em and flog'em, borderline fascist depending on what type of day I'm having 😀

We should just make a bit of money, and arm every country in the middle east up to the teeth*, then let them get on with it. They're all absolutely mad as arseholes, and just itching for a massive scrap anyway.

Of corse, because they're all barbaric savages, unlike we peaceful civilised westerners. Of course. Because we never start wars with other nations, or bully countries with natural resources into giving us their products at a price we demand, oh no. We're the guardians of peace, love, justice and tranquility. Of course. And anyone who argues against this is mad and should be put down like dogs.

The quickest way to stop war between Israel and Palestine would be to nuke the USA. Most Israelis would then leave Israel, the UK would be a frightened poodle without an owner, and The Arabs would then have control of all the oil, and become economically dominant.

Which is why the West continues to support a nuclear power in the Middle east and wants to oppress any other nation with designs on protecting it's own interests.

I'd imagine China are quietly looking at the whole situation with great interest.

Binners = proof that humour can be used when talking about tragedy.

You cheeky controversial silly sausage

You'd think after all this time that Hamas would've developed better rockets with more 'effective' warheads (chemical or biological), and held-off attacking until they could do the job properly.

I'd imagine China are quietly looking at the whole situation with great interest.

They'll need to hurry up, exactly how many decades of oil are left in the middle east?

I would imagine the threat of an effective chemical/biological attack is half the reason for Israel having nuclear arms.

MAD innit.

You'd think after all this time that Hamas would've developed better rockets with more 'effective' warheads (chemical or biological), and held-off attacking until they could do the job properly.

Of course, Israel wouldn't dream of ever breaching the Geneva Convention or International LAw.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/israel-s-nuclear-biological-and-chemical-weapons/30892

Israel tests new weapons in combat. Against Lebanon in 2006 and Gaza during Cast Lead, it used direct energy weapons, chemical and/or biological agents, and others producing injuries and symptoms medical professionals never previously saw.

For example, bodies with dead tissue had no apparent wounds. Corpses were found shrunken. Civilians had heavy lower limb damage requiring amputations. Nonetheless, unstoppable necrosis followed (death of cells and living tissue) followed by death.

Internal wounds had no trace of shrapnel. Corpses were blackened but not burned. Some badly wounded victims didn’t bleed. The Palestinian health ministry said Israel used a new type explosive in Gaza. It contained toxins and radioactive materials. They burned and tore victims’ bodies from the inside. They also left long term deformations.

A Palestinian doctor accused Israel of using chemical ammunition that burns and injures soft tissue, but can’t be traced by X-rays. Severe internal wounds were reported. Unknown gases believed to be nerve agents were used. Those affected lost consciousness for about 24 hours. They experienced high fevers and muscle rigidity. Some needed urgent blood transfusions.

In Gaza, white phosphorous was used. It burns flesh to the bone. Depleted uranium spread radioactive contamination. Close-range explosives caused severe injuries, requiring amputations. Children had legs cut off, abdomens sliced open, or died because nothing could save them.

Michael - they're at the same point in their history as we were in Europe in 1914. Absolutely chomping at the bit to open a big can of whoop'ass, and get all medieval on each others asses!

And quite frankly they won't be happy until they do. Maybe, unlike us Europeans, they'll do such a good job of the first one, they won't need to have a re-run/decider a few years later?

Which is why we should be selling them nukes. Ultimately, its for their own benefit. And if BAE can make a bit of wonga out of it too.... result!

[i]out of chaos comes order - nietzsche[/i]

It also doesn't help to compare statistics of deaths on both sides.

It doesn't help when you're trying to make excuses for the fact that a supposedly modern democratic state is behaving much worse than a supposed bunch of rabid extremist terrorists.

And that's just in terms of deaths, never mind injuries, or taking away land, water supplies, demolishing homes, restriction of trade/movement.

But Israel is too close to it's nuclear targets to make the use of them a credible threat. If Hamas really wanted to rid their land of the pirate occupiers they should target the water supplies with RDDs, some water soluable radionuclides in their water would put Israel off.

they're at the same point in their history as we were in Europe in 1914. Absolutely chomping at the bit to open a big can of whoop'ass, and get all medieval on each others asses!

Mmm. More pint glass philosophy from your positin of great enlightenment and knowledge?

The rerason for much of the instability of the Middle east is due to western intervention; the USA have been quietyly supporting and arming various groups for many decades, as well as installing puppet dictators (Saddam was only dealt with when he'd served his usefulness and had ideas above his station) and generally undermining any attempts at bringing about peace. The myth that all Arabs are at each others' throats is one peddled by western propagandists and merely fuels the notion in the minds of the ignorant that all Arabs are warmongering savages. Meanwhile, the USA and the west have justified the invasion and opression of people in many countries as being in the interests of protecting democracy. When in fact it's all been about protecting western economic interests.

Whil the USA contiunues to weild disproportionate power, the world is not safe.

Israel tests new weapons in combat.

So do the Palestinians Michael. Trouble is, they appear to be rubbish! The Apollo full-suss bike of missiles, next to Israels full XTR, Carbon Nomad 😉

Quite frankly, I hope the Iranian ones are a bit better. Otherwise there's no telling where they'll end up landing.

EDIT: Thinking about it, Muslims are crap at making missiles. Saddam's Scuds were a massive disappointment in the end too. At least the Saudi's have had the good sense to buy there's off us. When it all goes off, my money's on the red and white tea towels.....

[img] [/img]

😀

It's unlikely to happen, but what would happen if the egyptian air force, with their western fighters, came to the aid of the Gazans?

Interesting to see that our (?) "Middle East Envoy" is giving University speeches in London this week. If he has no role, please will he resign as puppet envoy?

If he's out of the way that is probably a good thing.

my money's on the red and white tea towels.....

What does that actually mean? Bit early to be on the sauce, isn't it?

But he is the saviour? And the 50 greatest achievements page on his website needs refreshing.

51. Did something...

[great photo scuzz!]

While the USA continues to wield disproportionate power, the world is not safe.

Bang on Mike. Can't wait for the Chinese to take over as the leading global superpower. Finally we can all live in peace and harmony together, in a new era of mutual love, repect and trust

[img] [/img]

😆

binners - Member
We should just make a bit of money, and arm every country in the middle east up to the teeth*, then let them get on with it. They're all absolutely mad as arseholes, and just itching for a massive scrap anyway.
Lets be honest - if they all wipe each other of the the face of the earth, amongst the islamo-fascist nut-jobs, homicidal dictators and zionists, I can't think of anyone who'd be missed.
Then we could negotiate for oil rights, with the genetically mutated rats and cockroaches, who are the only survivors once the radioactive cloud has subsided
* I know we're doing this already. Lets sell 'em nukes too. The whole shebang

You seem to think Europe would survive. Posted this before but it's worth a read:

Israel refuses to confirm or deny it has nuclear weapons or to describe how it would use them, an official policy of nuclear ambiguity, also known as "nuclear opacity." This has made it difficult for anyone outside the Israeli government to definitively describe its true nuclear policy, while still allowing Israel to influence the perceptions, strategies and actions of other governments.[6]
In 2006, in his book The Culture of War, Martin van Creveld, a professor of military history at Israel’s Hebrew University, wrote that since former United States Secretary of Defense Robert Gates admitted that Israel had nuclear weapons, any talk of Israel's nuclear weapons in Israel can lead to "arrest, trial, and imprisonment." Thus Israeli commentators talk about "doomsday weapons" and the "Samson Option."

[b]"We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force.[/b] Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. [b]Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under[/b].[22]
Ron Rosenbaum writes in his 2012 book How the End Begins: The Road to a Nuclear World War III that [b]in the "aftermath of a second Holocaust" Israel's surviving Dolphin-class nuclear missile submarines would retaliate not only against Israel's attackers, but "bring down the pillars of the world (attack Moscow and European capitals for instance)" as well as the "holy places of Islam." He writes that "abandonment of proportionality is the essence" of the Samson Option.[/b][23]

America is its own worse enemy. Its going to pull out globally within 20yrs. Why?

It can't afford to fuel its Armed forces overseas at somepoint
Its trillion dollar debt its unsustainable soon

Voters will say 'why are we paying for foreigners'?

EEK!!!! 😯

So... what you're saying is that Israel is like Big Vern, with a nuclear arsenal?

[img] [/img]

Bluster. And they know it. Taking on the USA, Russia and China while fighting all of the states that surround it is certain suicide.

I am the only one who find the following disturbing and tasteless?

10.00 Good morning and welcome to our live coverage of events in Gaza, where the renewed conflict has entered a second day. [i]The Telegraph[/i]

1530: Hello and welcome to our live coverage of events in Gaza, where the leader of Hamas's military wing has been killed in an Israeli airstrike. [i]The BBC[/i]

Do these people need to be reminded that these events are a tragedy not a spectator sport?

Remembrance Sunday-- what was all that about ??

News is a spectator sport. Just wait until it gets really nasty and watch Sky News... There'll be a BREAKING NEWS complete with whooosh! every minute...

BTW these 'rockets' aren't fireworks and the fella killed may be a freedom fighter to some but to others he'll be a murderer. Wish the British media would stop the David and Goliath (reverse irony) bashing of Israel/Jewish nation.

Israel bashing? I note that the Isreali army or govt spokesperson gets free reign but you don't get the same coverage for Hamas.

Historic and constant over the years.

Wish the British media would stop the David and Goliath (reverse irony) bashing of Israel/Jewish nation.

Can you not get Fox news where you are?

Isreal deserves condemnation.

Isreal deserves condemnation.

From your post in the other thread it seems you advocate a bit more than just condemnation.

ohnohesback - Member
Not if the arab world get round to using biological weapons, especailly the sort that can be genetically targeted against jews...

The second quote postulates the inevitable consequence of Israel continuing to behave as it does. I don't want to see that happen, but suspect at some point in the future it will.

Can you not get Fox news where you are?

Why am I watching a foreign networks news output, isn't my own nations heavily subsidised corporation who mantra was impartiality not enough?