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You seem to have a total hard on for the murder of innocent Israeli civilians.
Classy stuff mate.
I can't comment on whether it is sexual but you seem to have a total and callous disregard for the murder of innocent Palestinian civilians.
I posted this but you are obviously completely dismissive of such things:
"The Israeli politicians bear full responsibility for the killings of Palestinians, especially those unarmed women and children killed in cold blood without posing any threat to the lives of Israeli soldiers."
It is not be what FlyingOx has said but it is what a United Nations agency has reported.
Suddenly it becomes a serious issue because Israeli civilians are dying, as long as the only civilians dying are Palestinians then it isn't anything to be too concerned about.
Ernie - simple question - kidnap of Isreali civilians last night - is that OK with you? Yes or no?
Of course he isn't, what a dumb troll question.
Would you ask that sort of question in response to those who wrote this article in the Guardian?
I don't recall a thread concerning that development back in June, why? Civilians definitely died. In fact they were murdered.
But presumably those particular civilians don't matter, eh?
But presumably those particular civilians don’t matter, eh?
What a stupid thing to say.
Okay, what then is your explanation to why there wasn't thread on that incident, Palestinian civilians do matter but not quite as much as Israeli civilians?
I don't expect a thread every time civilians are murdered in a conflict but it is alarming imo how it suddenly becomes a particularly sensitive issue when the civilians are Israeli.
Okay, what is your explanation to why there wasn’t thread on the incident,
I assume because you don't care enough about Palestinian civilians. As you said yourself, they don't matter.
I have just pointed out "I don’t expect a thread every time civilians are murdered in a conflict".
It appears to me that only time there is a thread on stw concerning the Palestinian-Israeli conflict it is when there has been several Israeli casualties or the Palestinian resistance launches a significant attack.
The idea that Palestinian and Israeli civilian deaths are treated with equal horror is frankly ridiculous.
It appears to me that only time there is a thread on stw concerning the Palestinian-Israeli conflict it is when there has been several Israeli casualties or the Palestinian resistance launches a significant attack.
Something you are free to alter, but perhaps you're more interested in an argument than the plight of Palestinian civilians.
perhaps you’re more interested in an argument
He says after posting:
As you said yourself, they don’t matter.
Yeah, you're not just looking for an argument at all, I really did say that the Palestinians "don't matter" 🙄
Yeah, you’re not just looking for an argument at all, I really did say that the Palestinians “don’t matter” 🙄
Yep, when you impugned the motives of another poster on the basis of no evidence whatsoever. On the other hand your mealy mouthed excuses for the targeting of civilians are instructive.
It appears to me that only time there is a thread on stw concerning the Palestinian-Israeli conflict it is when there has been several Israeli casualties or the Palestinian resistance launches a significant attack.
Just to be clear that ^^ wasn't aimed as a criticism of what is posted concerning the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, this latest development is undoubtedly a huge news story which clearly deserves a thread.
The comment was in relation of what is perceived to be newsworthy. The day to day repression and murder of Palestinians gets relatively little coverage, if any at all.
'Do you agree with this ? No response
Retort - 'Do you agree with this ? No response.
Can we stop this pointless roundabout ?
Just to be clear that ^^ wasn’t aimed as a criticism of what is posted concerning the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, this latest development is undoubtedly a huge news story which clearly deserves a thread.
Give over. You were replying to wbo then quite clearly questioned their motives.
Can we stop this pointless roundabout ?
Perhaps they are trying to represent the conflict via forum messages.
Each side blaming the other and claiming they have to respond to the last atrocity ad infinitum.
You were replying to wbo then quite clearly questioned their motives.
You think that dragging the thread into the gutter and talking about "hard ons" is acceptable? Really?
Edit: Ah I see the problem, a mod appears to have deleted his post, I will assume that you didn't see it ransos.
The irony of this thread mirroring the conflict...
...an absolute ****ing shitshow.
Well this is edifying.....
Anyway I reckon the one thing that we can take away from this is that the world (and stw) only starts talking about Palestine when the Palestinians launch an aggressive attack against Israel.
What message does that send out to the Palestinian people?
Anyway I reckon the one thing that we can take away from this is that the world (and stw) only starts talking about Palestine when the Palestinians launch an aggressive attack against Israel.
You said you don't expect a thread on it, and didn't bother to start one, yet criticise others for the same. I find it difficult to believe that you are posting in good faith.
But as others have said, this is unedifying, so I'm getting out of the gutter
Anyway I reckon the one thing that we can take away from this is that the world (and stw) only starts talking about Palestine when the Palestinians launch an aggressive attack against Israel.
The day to day low level conflict does become background and ignored by the media after a while. After all its no longer news so only a major change gets the headlines.
If the Israelis launched an all out attack first it would have also got the news.
It is clearly a problem and it does look like Hamas are at least partially responding to the normalising of relations by Saudi Arabia and others. Unfortunately that pushes them pretty much into Iran sphere of influence and given the Iranian government doesnt give a toss about its own citizens let alone Palestinians and definitely not Israeli that is more likely to result in an aggressive posture.
Its depressing but outside of a Mandela being elected in both Israel and Palestinian national authority at the same time there doesnt seem to be any light at the end of the tunnel.
The Israeli approach mostly keeps a lid on things (this being an obvious exception (edit for stupidity)) but at the cost of leaving a bunch of young Palestinians, especially males, not being able to see a normal future and hence being prey to the promises of extremists offering status via alternate means.
I fear both the Palestinians and the Israeli right wing government need another conflict to be able to get attention/support for their respective causes. One being infinitely more worthy than the other.
What a ****ing disastrous mess. Again.
Well, when Shireen Abu Akleh, an Al Jazeera reporter, was shot in the face and killed by Israeli troopers while reporting on an Israeli Army incursion over a year ago, I was tempted to start a thread about the incident. The way this one has developed has only underpinned my thought process at the time. It would have been asking for a pile-on. I absolutely despair about the hypocrisy on show in the Middle East.
The world has ignored incursions by Israel, in fact outwith Al Jazeera it isnt going to make the news, So the lack of condemnation is tantamount to encouragement. So support for the Palestinian people is a natural response.
However, Hamas is clearly a brutal terrorist organization, which doesn't appear to care about the Palestinian plight and are just bigots like other fundamentalists, and what this has done is set back the support anyone in the western world has had for the Palestinian people.
Both sides appear to be currently targeting civilians. Or rather I should say having no thought for civilians caught in their crossfire.
What I find puzzling is how despite global public opinion slowly but relentlessly shifting more and more in favour of the Palestinians, as a direct result of Israeli government behaviour, established Western political parties, well certainly in the UK and probably the US, are becoming evermore intolerant of any criticism made against Israel.
The Liberal Democrat foreign affairs has actually been strongly critised for this post on twitter:
Deeply concerned by reports from Gaza and Israel. Civilians must be protected, I am especially horrified to hear about hostage taking, and all violence condemned. This is a significant escalation. I can't see how it ends well for anyone.
I have witnessed so many people slowly change from a staunchly pro Israeli position to one of outspoken criticism.
For me by far the most remarkable conversion was that of onetime staunch Zionist Gerald Kaufman. And Kaufman was no leftie, he was firmly on the right of the Labour Party and if he was still alive undoubtedly a Starmer supporter.
"It is time to remind Sharon that the Star of David belongs to all Jews, not to his repulsive Government. His actions are staining the star of David with blood. The Jewish people, whose gifts to civilised discourse include Einstein and Epstein, Mendelssohn and Mahler, Sergei Eisenstein and Billy Wilder, are now symbolised throughout the world by the blustering bully Ariel Sharon, a war criminal implicated in the murder of Palestinians at the Sabra and Shatila camps and now involved in killing Palestinians once again."
Kaufman in a speech given to the House of Commons, during Israel's military operation codenamed Defensive Shield in April 2002
I can't imagine that speech being given today in the House of Commons. Or if it was Kaufman would be expelled from the Labour Party for antisemitism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Kaufman
Totally agree, well said.
However, Hamas is clearly a brutal terrorist organization, which doesn’t appear to care about the Palestinian plight and are just bigots like other fundamentalists, and what this has done is set back the support anyone in the western world has had for the Palestinian people.
Partially agree. Politically it's going to be harder to support them but I don't think anyone is going to change their minds on Isreals track record.
As with Isreal the state =/= the people.
“all violence condemned”
When one group launched an attack that intentionally targeted not just civilians but children. Abductions and executions. Parading and defiling the bodies of the murdered.
Damn right she got criticised for it.
That's your opinion. The idea that the Palestinian resistance deliberately targets their extremely limited resources at civilians, rather than useful military assets, is daft in my opinion.
The killing of Palestinian children by Israeli forces, who have a completely limitless access to weaponry, is well documented - see the link to United Nations agency article further up the page.
The idea that the Palestinian resistance deliberately targets their extremely limited resources at civilians, rather than useful military assets, is daft in my opinion.
It wasn't an accident
The idea that the Palestinian resistance deliberately targets their extremely limited resources at civilians, rather than useful military assets, is daft in my opinion.
Over the years there have been hundreds of direct attacks on Israeli civilians by Palestinians. Suicide bombings on buses, schools, restaurants, mass shootings, car bombings and stabbings on randomly selected civilians.
There are reports coming out of Sderot today of people being being dragged out of their cars randomly and having their throats slit.
I deplore the Israeli blockade of Gaza and their disproportionate retaliatory violence directed at its citizens. I support a Palestinian state and complete Israeli withdrawal from the settlements. But to say Palestinian armed groups don't also target civilians is just wilful ignorance.
@ernielynch these were executions of children, you ghoulish, morally-bankrupt terrorism apologist.
you ghoulish, morally-bankrupt terrorism apologist.
Well it's obviously impossible to have any reasonable debate over the issue.
Twice previously I have posted this link
Which includes:
At least eight field executions were recorded under the pretext of suspicion or attempted stabbing, as the Israeli army left all the victims to bleed to death. The injured were not provided with any first aid in flagrant violation of the rules of international humanitarian law.
The Israeli politicians bear full responsibility for the killings of Palestinians, especially those unarmed women and children killed in cold blood without posing any threat to the lives of Israeli soldiers.
I can't see that you have condemned that. Would it be fair to call you a ghoulish, morally-bankrupt terrorism apologist?
I really don't know enough to comment on the rights and wrongs of either side, but what is quite eye opening is my instagram feed being bombarded with pro Israel posts tonight. Not like my usual posts are the kind of thing that would drive that kind of content to my timeline and other than this thread I haven't clicked on anything else to do with the subject. Virtually every recommended post is some random person with a post or video condemning Hamas and supporting Israel
A half naked young woman dragged through the streets strapped to the back of a pick up, raped, then murdered. Young girls, maybe 9 or 10 years old having the shit kicked out of them by grown men all caught on video to be celebrated…. But yeah crack on 2 sides to every story, let’s have a reasonable debate. Meanwhile where are the leaders of Hamas whilst all this happens - oh yeah that’s right they’re living in luxury in Tehran or Damascus…
Morally bankrupt indeed
Over the years there have been hundreds of direct attacks on Israeli civilians by Palestinians. Suicide bombings on buses, schools, restaurants, mass shootings, car bombings and stabbings on randomly selected civilians.
Yes there have been, but is it not naive to simply dismiss those attacks without knowing what lies behind them.
It should be noted that in many of these cases it has been an individual action, against what they see as an oppressor, carried out by everyday people who have lost everything. People whose homes have been bulldozed, family members gunned down. So possibly a case of a last desperate act of retribution rather than some planned attack on behalf of a militant organization.
Do we not find it odd that is some cases its been a 60 year old suddenly attacking a group of policemen or army, knowing they aren't going to survive.
These instances are not looked into, the perpetrator is simply classed and reported as being a terrorist. Labels work best when no further investigations take place.
.
Im not going to say this is synonymous of every attack, but the truth and evidence does show that these type of attacks have and do take place and those are the reasons for them.
.
eg. Israeli settlers attack a Palestinian home setting fire to it and burning to death a baby and its parents. What would the relatives do in such a case when overcome with the horror of that situation. Can we condemn them for wanting to inflict retribution. Have we any right to ?.
Any atrocities committed by the Palestinians should be categorically condemned, no one is going to dispute that.
How is that relevant?
Israelis are somehow allowed to commit war crimes and ignore international law?
Edit: Israeli war crimes are regularly documented by humanitarian/human rights agencies and the United Nations. Any war crimes currently being committed by the Palestinians will no doubt also be documented.
Or is there anyone who believes that the United Nations and other agencies simply ignore war crimes committed the Palestinians?
Would it be fair to call you a ghoulish, morally-bankrupt terrorism apologist?
Which one of us is making excuses for murder?
I’ll leave you to it.
Which one of us is making excuses for murder?
I thought you were. I have repeatedly provided evidence of Israeli forces committing cold-blooded murder and you haven't condemned it.
That's how it works isn't it.....if you don't condemn it you are a ghoulish, morally-bankrupt terrorism apologist, no?
I won't hesitate to condemn any atrocities committed by the Palestinians. Give me specific examples and I will condemn them.
I have repeatedly provided evidence of Israeli forces committing cold-blooded murder
Precisely. This what you have chosen to do today, in response to atrocities committed against Israeli civilians and families.
I remain quite confident that passions inflamed by this debate will be resolved, and that lessons learned from this very thread will lead to peace across the whole of Arabia.
Why isn't there more snooker on television?
I appreciate that ^^ comment is designed to be sarcastic. However global attitudes are dramatically changing and it isn't necessarily down to the MSM.
Ironically Israel's most fervent supporters in the United States are the Christian MAGA far-right, the majority of American Jews no longer back unconditional support for Israel:
I hear it from them. They see social media, they’re checking out information coming from the Middle East. They don’t have to rely on the mass media here any more. They’re more sceptical about what they hear from the politicians and mainstream Jewish groups,” he said.
In 2021, a Jewish Electorate Institute poll found that 58% of American Jewish voters support restrictions on US military aid to prevent Israel using it to expand West Bank settlements. One-third agreed that “Israel’s treatment of Palestinians is similar to racism in the United States” and one-quarter said that “Israel is an apartheid state”, numbers that shocked some Jewish community leaders.
Part of the shift has been driven by social media and the wide circulation of videos such as Israeli assaults on Gaza and the West Bank, the large-scale forced removal of Palestinians from the South Hebron hills, and armed Jewish settlers rampaging through Palestinian towns.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jul/24/american-jews-critical-israeli-settlements-west-bank
Btw the 25% of American Jews who said that “Israel is an apartheid state" wouldn't be welcomed in the Labour Party as they would probably be classed as antisemitic.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/18/labour-candidate-called-israel-apartheid-state/
Any atrocities committed by the Palestinians should be categorically condemned, no one is going to dispute that.
You should probably have a word with somafunk.
somafunk
Full Member
I imagine those areas of Israeli civilian population were previously Palestinian owned, similar to how Russia occupied Crimea and deserve everything thrown at them from Ukraine, no sympathy for Israeli settlers from me.